My name is Stuart Stuart Easton.
Um, some of you have not been on our webinars before.
Most of you probably have,
I think I recognize most of the names.
Um, so we do, we do two webinars a month.
Uh, so, so I run a company called Transparent Choice.
Um, I spend most of my time doing that.
Um, uh,
and we do portfolio management, software,
benefit management software, that kind of stuff,
project prioritization, all those sorts of things.
Uh, the things that compliment your PPM tool.
But most PPM tools don't do a great job of that.
We knock it out. The park advert over,
um, the rest of my time.
I spend, um, bouncing
around the world talking about rubber ducks
and topics that PMOs care about, uh, at, at conferences.
And I am absolutely privileged
to meet some amazing people on that journey, uh,
including today's speakers, today's panelists.
Um, so you know, Mike, I've known you the longest.
Jesse, we actually met face-to-face for,
for the first time in LA last year.
Um, I think, uh,
and Gabriela, we had the chance
to meet face-to-face at the Global Summit in Phoenix tail
end of last year, which was, which was awesome.
Um, so, uh, the reason
that we have these particular speakers today is
that these are three of the team, the core team that created
this thing called PMBOK eight.
And, uh, as I said earlier, what I want to do is I want
to dig in a little bit more into, yeah, sure.
What's different, why does it matter,
but from the PMOs point of view, um,
and, uh, so I invited them along.
They very graciously, uh, joined us.
So I'm not gonna introduce the speakers,
I'm gonna let them introduce themselves.
But I'm gonna do it with a, a particular question, which is,
I, I, I'd like you to introduce each of you, uh,
introduce yourselves, tell us who you are,
but also tell us why you were part of the team.
What was it that made you a special member of that,
that team that put the PMBOK eight together.
And Gabrielle, I'm going to start with you if that's okay.
Okay. So first of all, Stuart, uh, Jesse.
Mike, uh, I'm, uh, I'm honored actually
to participate in this amazing, uh, webinar.
And I'm really thankful for all the guests
and attendees that are actively sharing, uh,
their location, their weather.
And, uh, basically I'm coming from really small
country of Lithuania.
We have less than 3 million of people.
Uh, it's located just above the Poland in Europe.
And, uh, I personally, my whole adult life work
with projects with project management for the last 14 years.
And, uh, half of my experience was related
as project manager work.
And then I switched to portfolio and, uh, and PMO positions.
And basically, uh, it is mostly related
to infrastructure projects, also, some IT projects, some,
um, um, PMO establishment, portfolio establishment projects.
And, uh, basically I'm also really keen on sustainability
and new digital technologies.
So I think this was also like the reason why I, I came
to this amazing, uh, family, if I can say that, of people
who worked on PM B eight
and had amazing opportunity to that, to do
that for the last two years.
Uh, so I think I was also really lucky, to be honest.
I think they were lucky, Gabrielle, and,
and yes, you did hear that right
for the last two years, right?
These things are not done in a week.
This is a huge piece of work.
So I just want to lead the applause
before we even get started with the team and,
and, you know, offer thanks on, on behalf of the community
to everyone in community who, uh,
who contributed to PMBOK eight.
Not just the guys on this call,
but the whole, the whole team.
Um, it was a, a huge, huge effort.
Um, and by the way, anybody who, uh, has not been
to Lithuania, which I'm gonna guess is most
of the people on this call, I have to say it's one
of my favorite places that I've been to in recent years.
Um, I've had the privilege
of speaking at the Bridge Conference in Lithuania,
keynote there last year, or the year before.
Can't remember now. Um, and been there three times, I think.
And it is just beautiful. The people are warm, friendly.
Um, skip the pink soup. That's all I can say, right?
Everything else is great, but skip the pink soup, uh, right.
Let's move on. Uh, Jesse, go ahead.
Um, same question to you, my friend.
Uh, well, greetings everybody.
Uh, my name's Jesse
and I work in, uh, a variety of industries helping,
um, organizations change.
And so business transformation, agile transformation,
digital transformation, working with, um,
everyone from the Federal Reserve Bank of the United States
to the local public school district to, um,
uh, BAE systems.
Uh, and I, I wasn't, I got involved in this project
because I was the only one
who believed in the last pro pmbok, if, if any
of you were paying attention in 2021.
The PMBOK seventh edition was very controversial
because it threw away all of the things
that we were trained on, those inputs, tools, techniques,
and outputs, and those knowledge areas and process groups.
In 2021, they all went away
and everyone just said, what are you doing?
So, uh, I was out campaigning, explaining
how you could use the PIM box seven to, um,
to craft an approach to a project.
And, uh,
because I was the only one doing this at the time, uh,
PMI approached me and said, we, we need someone
to do the eighth edition to take us from, to,
to bridge the old world and the new world.
Would you be willing to share this?
And I said, okay, I'll try it.
I asked four other people to join me as co-chair.
Every single one said, no way. No way.
So, um, I I, I had to lean into this knowing that, um,
whoever volunteered to join this effort
truly had a passion for, for difficult, difficult projects.
So, uh, that's a little bit of a, uh, of a tip
to let you know what Mike and Gabrielle are, are capable of.
They knew what they were getting into, and they said yes.
Whereas some of my other colleagues were just not, there's,
I don't see how this is another disaster, Jesse.
It's gonna be a disaster. You know it.
Why, why are you doing it?
So, um, that's how I came into it. I was voluntold.
Excellent. I love that. I love that.
And, and I dare say we might touch on some
of those controversial changes, uh, as we move forward.
Um, I know I've certainly had an earful from a few people.
'cause I, I'm, I'm a bit of a champion for, uh,
for PMBOK eight in the direction it's heading.
Uh, and I know that the journey's not over yet, right?
There's the, you know,
there'll be a PMBOK nine at some point,
and the, the, the journey will continue, uh,
as it as it should.
Um, so, uh, fantastic. Uh, Mike, over to you, my friend.
Yeah. So, uh, I'm,
I'm self-employed in this project portfolio space.
It's my professional passion.
I've been doing it for almost 15 years.
And, uh, I left the cushy world at W2 jobs.
That's what we call cushy jobs in the us.
Um, to do it thinking that I would never make anywhere near,
I would, I would, I would have to, I would have
to lower my quality of life, lower my standard of living,
um, and accept, uh, the poor man's fate
because nobody cares about PMOs and project portfolios.
And I'd be lucky if I could make a living at all.
And unfortunately, it has worked out to the point where
I wanted to leave a lasting impact
and maybe write sort of a final
Swan song book before I retire.
At which point Jesse reached out
to me since we've known each other for a bit,
and said, now, Mike,
you only get like 10,000 people read that book.
Let help me write a book
where millions of people might read it.
And I was like, oh, really? What book is that?
He said, oh, that, the, the next edition of the PMBOK guide.
I was like, that's a joke, right? You're kidding.
Like, that's the, I could think
of 5,000 things I would rather do with my volunteer time,
then a PMBA guy.
And, uh, about 15 minutes later, he convinced me
that this might actually be a great way to,
to leave a lasting impact.
Um, so thank you, Jesse.
You're, you're a phenomenal sales guy,
even if the other people turned you down.
And side note, uh, well, two, two side notes.
P PMBOK seven said, for the first time in any PMBOK guide,
and the first time in many PM circles, I've traversed
project management is a system for value delivery.
Why did it take seven additions to say that simple phrase
that we all hopefully intuitively grasp?
Uh, but then the challenge was, okay,
let's make it more real for people.
That's great as a mindset shift, thank you PIM box seven
for helping us, uh, reorient the mindset.
But now how do we teach, say,
a junior project manager who's just getting into it
for the first time, how to take that
and actually make it, make it real and, and do it.
So that was, uh, one of our primary challenges in PI Box
eight, and I am all for that.
My other side note is Jesse's modest, he'll never tell you
that, uh, he is now contributed as an author or co-author
or chair to half of the existing PMBOK guides.
Wow. I did not realize that. That's amazing.
5, 6, 7, 8.
I, uh, uh, yeah, it's, it's, well, you're only
Like 12 years old for number one, right?
Yeah. Uh, glutton for punishment.
Another note about Mike, um, me, uh, kind
of convincing Mike, uh, to be a part of this.
I convinced him to apply.
Uh, so, uh, just a a quick note that, um, you, the way
that you get involved in this is not be
by being friends with Stuart.
Um, the way that you get involved in this is
by submitting an application to PM's volunteer website
and making a case and side note.
So here's my side note.
Gabriela's application was the last one we accepted
out of hundreds upon hundreds of applications.
Um, she got in right at the deadline.
Um, so she is the, she's the, uh,
the PhD in submitting right at the, the,
the last possible responsible moment.
And as a result, um, we had the benefit of, of finding her
and bringing her onto to the team. So, um,
Great example of just in time delivery.
Yes,
I love it. I love it. Okay,
let's, let's, let's move on.
Um, so I, I've got a bunch of questions,
but actually I'm gonna kick off with a question from Guy,
guy Wolf, um, uh,
because it's gonna flow into some of the other stuff
that we, we want to talk about.
Uh, so first of all, guy, I didn't know
that you were a fellow nuclear physicist.
Um, I may have gone through it a little bit after you,
but not that far after you.
Uh, so, so Guy says, uh, is my PMBOK edition five
as obsolete as my 1970s textbook on nuclear physics?
Should I just throw it away
and get a hard copy of number eight?
So, uh, Jesse, since you've been involved in so many
of them, I'm gonna put that question to you first.
Oh, my goodness. Uh, so Guy, you will be, uh,
I think comforted to hear that one of the people
who declined to join us on this adventure is, um,
uh, one of my, one
of my favorite project managers in the world.
His name is SK Core, and he builds airports,
and he's the PM behind, uh, um,
the, um, the newest airport in Southeast Asia.
Um, I believe in Cambodia.
And, and he told me, um, when he declined,
because he was a little bit busy building an airport, um,
but he told me, he said,
the seventh edition is just not helpful to what I do.
Um, I use the fifth edition to, uh,
to teach all of my PMs
what the expectations are for this program.
And, uh, and we have multiple work streams,
and all those PMs need to be really good at their jobs
and their, and their work streams.
And he's, and, and it made sense to me
because the sixth edition was, uh,
was a little bit bloated.
It was a little bit too big,
and it had a lot of duplication in the content
because it was the first time that we had, um,
separated the PMBOK guide into an antsy standard as well
as a body of knowledge.
And so, um, I wouldn't say
that the fifth edition is obsolete.
I would say that it served as inspiration
for a lot of us for many decades.
Uh, I would instead say that, uh,
I would keep it alongside your collection
of other, uh, books.
You might find that, uh, uh,
the eighth edition has treats some
of the same topics a little
bit interestingly and differently.
But then, like, sk, who's one of the best in the business,
you might find that you go back
to your old faithful from time to time
to share it with a colleague.
Brilliant. What a great, what a great answer.
So, I'm, I'm gonna add a bit of color,
and bear in mind, I wasn't on the committee.
I'm not on the team. I have no, I'm not in the pay
of the PMI, of course,
I volunteer like so many others, right?
In, in my own way. Um, so this is how I see it, right,
is the, the, the old pin box.
Were really built to be the absolute gold standard
of everything you would need to run
any project in the world,
especially big ass projects like building airports, right?
But most project managers in the world don't build airports.
They run much smaller projects.
And so, to me, what, what, what was, so, so
what PMI has done is they have created a specific
certification for people who build airports.
I can't remember what it's called. Reen is the guy at
PMI that that drives it.
PICP Construction person.
Thank you. There you go. That's the one. That's the one.
Uh, so, well, Ben's gonna give you grief when he sees me
next for not remembering the name of it, but there you go.
Um, so, so they've created a specific certification
for people who build airports, not,
and other, you know, other types
of capital project are available.
Um, which means that, that, that the PMBOK guide can kind
of reposition itself to be a more flexible tool,
a more usable tool, more accessible tool for, for the,
for the whole community, for the rest of the community.
That's the way I see it.
I'm sh that may not be the way
that you guys positioned it
internally, but that's the way I see it.
Gabrielle, uh, what do you, what do you think about this?
'cause you've, you've worked in a variety of industries.
I think probably more than most of us.
Uh, I don't think that most of you,
but, uh, yeah, I worked in, uh, energy industries,
different types of like hydrogen, like solars, uh, uh,
batteries, and also clinical research, also startups, uh,
real estate and, uh, manufacturing.
But what I learned,
and I wouldn't say throw a away, just collect them,
because someday later on, 20, 30 years, uh,
later on, you, you might, uh, sell it
for a huge amount of money.
And if you can get Jesse's signature
or niche, that would be even better, you know?
And for me personally, when I took my certification, uh, on,
for, for instance, portfolio management, uh, by PMI as well
actually use the previous versions
to better understand the concepts
because we don't, we don't need to repeat ourselves
because it's already written.
So, but in some cases, if, for, for me,
I'm not a native speaker, uh, of English,
we don't have a translation of pm b or portfolio
or different standards to my language
to better understand the concepts
that we don't even have like the similar words in
my little language.
So it is better to have like additional references
of older books and standards that you can use as a learner.
And I would say don't throw it away, just keep it.
And also, uh, uh, coming back about being lucky,
actually it was Lee Lambert, uh, who was the reason
that I signed for, uh, pm b, uh,
because I saw his fo uh, post on Facebook that he, uh, uh,
reminded that e everyone can apply.
And I just applied.
And I never dreamed ever in my life that this would happen.
Uh, I applied and, um, Jesse
and, uh, Josh scheduled the meeting,
and actually I forgot the meeting,
and it was like, uh, 8:00 PM Friday,
and I'm sitting with my husband
and I'm like, okay, like, let's watch a movie,
eat some popcorns and stuff like that, you know?
And then I checked my phone and it was like 15 minutes
before the meeting, and I was like, okay,
let, let's do that.
You know? And when she asked me what I didn't like,
and if, what if I would change something, uh,
I was like radically honest that for me personally,
seventh Edition wasn't that actionable
and usable, uh, in different kind of projects.
Uh, because for instance, as you mentioned
before, there are different standards for, uh, SCP for,
for construction professionals.
But also what we agreed, when we came up
to write the standard, uh, in Los Angeles
for the first time, when we met the whole team, we agreed
that even the schools, even the pupils,
the students are having the projects,
you use this concept like so widely,
and we cannot, you know, be so close minded
that the projects would be, you know,
only mega huge infrastructures.
There are like lots of change management
that also involves projects.
And, uh, what we also
did change within the PM block eight edition, we including
included the family as a stakeholder that
might be influenced by the project,
or might have influenced by the project
and what we wanted to say in that matter,
that the projects could be like really different
kind of initiatives.
And going further, we'll explain
how we also change the project definition.
So, so that's,
Yeah. So we, we've
sort of slipped into
the next question, which is great.
So, so Mike, I'm gonna come to you.
You know, the famously pinball eight's got more input than
any of the previous, uh, uh, books.
Something like 48,000 different bits of information came.
I can't imagine handling and sifting through all of that.
So, so based on all of that input, you know, what, what,
what were some of the goals that the team had
putting together the document?
We've touched on some of 'em so far,
but what are, what are some of the goals?
What was it that you're really trying to get to the heart
of based on all that feedback?
So, some of it, uh, you know, was, as you might expect,
right, just general voice of the customer stuff, like,
don't make it 3000 pages, right?
Um, and, but do make it sub substantive enough to be useful,
um, even for junior pm.
Uh, and even on small projects,
and oh, by the way, we kind of liked some
of the stuff from the previous editions that were,
that was thrown away in, in the seventh edition.
Uh, some of that stuff is useful, you know, in fact,
can you extend it right and take it further?
Um, so it was, it was just sort of good market research, uh,
from my, from my point of view on, I, I think on top of
that, there's a very interesting, um, commonality
that Jesse and the PMI, um, product owner, Josh, um,
had in mind, you can correct me if I'm getting this wrong,
Jesse, uh, when they recruited the team, or,
or when they reviewed all the applicants
and decided who to interview,
and went through the whole process of down selecting
to the final team of, uh, you know, 12 or 13 folks, uh,
and that was, do you actually all share the same mindset
that this is about, uh, unlimited upside, right?
That, that we can engineer maximum positive contributions
to our world through our cherished
discipline and project management.
And if you bring that, and of course, then, you know,
come from 10 different countries
and, uh, you know,
probably 30 different industries represented with our
combined experience and don like,
do we have the right diversity of experience based
and perspective, uh, along with that shared core mindset
to really make, uh, a big impact here?
Love it. Uh, this, this idea
of unlimited upside is something that, uh, Mike is really,
really big into.
Introduce me to the idea.
And, uh, I've become a bit of a convert to the point
where I've bounced around on stages in Dubai and,
and, uh, Saudi Arabia
and other places, uh, espousing a lot of those ideas that
that might planted in my brain at least.
So, uh, I'm, I'm glad
that's outreaching a, a wider audience.
Wider. So let's, let's jump into this,
into some of the detail.
So, um, I'm sure everybody wants to know, you know,
what are the, what are the key differences
from Pin Box six, seven?
You know, six to seven was a big jump, um,
but then jumping into eight, what are some
of the big differences?
And, and why did you, why did you make those decisions?
And, and remember, this is a PMO audience,
so we're thinking from the PMO point of view, what,
you know, what should we be paying attention to
as PMOs rather than just as project managers?
I, uh, I'll, I'll start with some of the,
uh, more, uh, I guess expected,
some of the more expected changes.
And then I'll let, uh, Mike
and Gabriela talk about the more provocative changes.
Um, the, so Mike mentioned,
and I put it in the comments,
this is the most data-driven PMBOK in history.
There, uh, were 48,000 data points that were collected
through surveys, uh, before we even started the project.
So on day one, we knew, let me just kind of, uh, cite some
of the statistics.
Um, we knew that two thirds of all project managers wanted
to keep the system for value delivered.
We knew that 88% of project managers found the principles
to be very important, not just important, very,
uh, uh, important.
Uh, and, and then at the same time, so,
so those were the seventh edition features that, that were,
that were considered to be very helpful
and relevant to all projects all of the time.
If you're building airports
or if you're installing a new HR policy, uh, no matter what,
you have to focus on what is the value of the work
that we're doing, rather than just get it done.
And those principles help guide the thinking of the, of,
of project practitioners.
However, the data also said, we want
to reintroduce those processes.
Uh, 80% wanted to reintroduce the five fundamentals
of project management, initiating planning, executing,
monetary, controlling, and closing.
And in fact, uh, most of them two thirds said
that these five things are agnostic of agile versus, uh,
predictive versus hybrid.
This has nothing to do with life's, uh, with methodology.
This is every project in every industry,
every time should have some focus.
Uh, it's a little foreshadowing on those things.
And yet, at the same time, uh,
73% said they wanted those processes back.
And, and so, uh, we, we had data
that told us what our job was.
It was explicitly preserve, uh, the system
for value delivery and the principles from the seventh
edition and reintroduce in a fresh, modern way,
the pro the, the five process groups, uh, the f uh,
and then, um, the 40 or so processes, again, refined
and updated and modernized.
Uh, these were the things that, um, were found to be like,
we knew, we knew going into day one
this was gonna be part of the project.
So, um, uh, I, I'll, I'll, I'll pause there. Uh, Stuart, uh,
That's awesome. What
jumps out at you about that?
And, and, and, you know, hey, Jesse,
can you turn the enthusiasm up a bit?
We haven't quite got enough enthusiasm coming across here.
Um, uh, uh, Gabriela,
anything you'd you'd like to add to that?
Yeah, for, um, me as a, uh, manager of PMO,
also portfolio manager, for me, it's also really important
to have those processes
because basically we are the people who are, uh,
establishing the Polish policies.
We are writing the documentations within different
organizations, and we need that, uh, materials
that we could count on and to have standardized.
But what I really liked,
and we had really, uh, interesting discussion on that is
project definition.
What is the project? Because, I dunno, what about you guys?
But for me, I haven't seen
so many unique projects, to be honest.
Usually the context is unique.
But for example, my company is doing some pipes for,
um, district heating
and hot water, sorry, everyone on my team.
But it's not unique.
You know, putting some pumps under the ground is not unique.
And we do like different, uh, streets, different comm, uh,
we, uh, uh, wind wall, different communities,
but still, the project is not unique itself,
but we cannot say that it's not a project
because it has the beginning.
Uh, it has, then it has the budget, it has the team, uh,
also the goals and also, um, the, the,
the metrics that we are counting.
Uh, but the definition itself, I think now
what we have made is more clear that, uh,
you are not building the rocket
or going to Mars like every time.
And it's more useful for everyday folks
that are project managers or PMOs
and having like, wide variety,
variety projects within their portfolio.
What is the project? And also the word, the endeavor.
That wasn't changed for a really long time. It was changed.
And, uh, two initiative,
because I think mentally we use that word quite commonly.
Uh, and we use it like, as a synonym, uh, to what,
what the project is within the company.
So I think this change also is, uh,
more about being user friendly, uh, that the pm b
as a foundation for project management, for, uh, PMOs
for portfolios as well.
Management should be like more relatable
to folks from lower the globe.
And the language should, should be understandable for me,
per personally, I cannot normally
say the, the word endeavor.
And I already explained that to Jesse and other folks.
For me, it's hard to pronounce the word not being
the, like native speaker.
Yeah. Brilliant. So it occurs to me
that maybe not everyone knows that the, the definition
of project was changed with the release
of Bimbo eight. Um, yeah,
Go for Mike. Go for it.
'cause Jen was asking that very question.
So Michael, I'm gonna come to you. So give us that.
And then what I would like to take it to is, is building on
what Gabriela just said, if you could kind
of give us an idea of what you think a PMO needs
to do about it, right?
Because all this stuff's changed.
So what if you're running a PMO, what do you need to do
to empower your delivery teams
to actually embrace this stuff and get value from it?
So let's kick off with the definition
and then we'll go into that stuff.
Yeah. So if you, if you're an old PM like me,
and you've been doing this a long time, you know,
the definition that PMI has offered, uh,
has stayed re relatively stable for 40 plus years.
And that is, um, a temporary initiative,
or sorry, temporary endeavor, sorry, Gabriela,
temporary endeavor undertaken to generate, um,
a unique product, service or result.
So as Gabriela was just saying, it's not the uniqueness
of the product service or result
that necessarily captures the essence.
It's that the context is often maybe always unique,
even if only minimally.
So, uh, but the point is we're trying to get more value out
of it than what we sacrificed in the first place, right?
Uh, and that's the essence
of what we're trying to get at here.
So, uh, so you see Laura Riveri posted in the chat
what the new definition is.
Well done, Laura. You're paying attention.
And, uh, and our challenge wasn't just
to craft some new definition.
Uh, our challenge was to make it real for people.
What techniques exist
that might actually help me engineer a maximum value
outcome for my project?
And hint, hint, it might not be just, uh,
don't ask questions and do your scope, schedule,
cost baseline, and, and,
and that's not, you know, it's above your pay grade.
Um, no, you're the one closest to your baseline.
I hope you're the one that understands
what the business stakeholders actually need, I hope.
And therefore, you are uniquely positioned
to drive a maximal value outcome, I hope.
Yeah. Or at least you're plugged into the stakeholders
who's who you're delivering the value to.
So you ought to be able to figure it out, right?
That that's part of what being a project manager is.
So, so, um, so, so, so if that's the new definition
and we've got a new pbo, what might do, do you think
that the PMO leader needs to start doing
to embed these changes to adopt
and embed these changes in their, in their teams?
Uh, in my mind, there has to be a sense of, uh, discipline
or rigor in
how we actually engineer the highest possible value
outcome, right?
So there have been techniques that have been around for, uh,
30 plus years to do exactly that,
and they've never made it into a pinback guide until now.
Okay. So we, we won't worry with all the details there,
but suffice to say something simple like, well,
if I go over budget to accelerate the schedule by a month,
might that actually be a better ROI?
Right? And again, uh,
classically trained PMs were trained
not to even ask that question.
How dare you suggest we might, that it might be a good idea
to go over budget, right?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Uh, and,
and, um, I can't quite, uh, Kang, uh, just, just said,
so it's, it's about realizing benefits, right?
And, and I'd say it's more than that.
It's about maximizing benefits,
Right? Right.
Because not every,
since all projects are investments,
not every investment pays off the way you imagine
it should or could.
Yeah. Right? So from a portfolio point of view, uh,
some will fall short of their benefits, right?
For, for reasons that might be no fault of your own
or of the organizations.
It's just that's what happens in the world and in life.
Therefore, we better have other project investments
that far exceed the target benefits, right?
So we're always looking like any sane
or rational investor, uh, to balance risk across,
across a portfolio,
and to maximize the ROI of that portfolio portfolio,
even if you measure, uh, the return in a non-financial way.
Excellent. So, uh, uh, I wanna add, um, two follow up, um,
comments, uh, on this, uh, the
Mike mentioned the triple constraint, uh,
scope schedule, cost.
And that's how, that's like so deeply
embedded in our tradition
as a community and as a profession.
And the concept of a triple constraint has been obsolete
for the last 16 years.
And the 2009 fourth edition of the PMBOK Guide,
we introduced multiple constraints, including risk, quality,
compliance, uh, that, uh, where there's the, um,
there's no diagram anymore of the iron triangle.
And, and so for the last 16 years, the idea has been that,
that there are multiple expectations around a project.
And, and then the second point around that we illustrated
profoundly, the ultimate example is the Sydney Opera House.
So if you haven't read the history
of the Sydney Opera House, it is one of the worst projects
of all time.
The architect won a Nobel Prize for the design of,
of the building, and then during its construction,
there was a riot by the workers who, who took over
the construction site and held it hostage.
The, um, the architect was fired by a new parliament member,
uh, an MP who wanted
to make a statement about how bad the project is.
It was 10 x over budget, it was, uh, like
17 x uh, over schedule.
And it is, Harold is one
of the greatest achievements of humankind.
It's a UNESCO heritage site.
It, it, so sometimes the value far
exceeds the constraints that we have been given,
and it's our jobs as leaders to,
to make the point is this an existential project in Boston,
ma in, uh, in Bo in the city of Boston, the United States,
the Big Dig was one of the most infamous projects, dude,
I lived through that thing. Oh my God.
And the idea was let's take this large, uh,
flyover freeway and put it underground in tunnels
so that all the vehicles now could go in tunnels,
and then we would free up the skyline.
And, and, and it just, um, people died
during construction of this project,
and it still kept going despite being way too expensive and,
and, and having casualty
because it was an existential project for the very identity
of the entire city.
And, um, a, a major metropolitan, say, one of the, one
of the most populous cities in the world.
So sometimes, um, sometimes, uh, it,
it's our job to zoom out to the bigger story.
What is the bigger story of your project?
And this is a new expectation
that is becoming increasingly commonplace in every industry,
uh, on project professionals.
Now, I would add, Jesse, from a stakeholder's point
of view, it's not new.
They've always demanded that from us.
We just never gave it to 'em.
Yeah, A hundred percent. At
Least not as an industry.
Some, some, uh, rare exceptions, intuitively. Got it. Great.
A hundred percent. Yeah.
It's, it's, it's always been about, uh, I mean, the number
of people over the last, on various LinkedIn posts
who say things like, oh, this new thing about value, right?
No, it's not new. It's always been about delivering value.
Uh, we, we, uh, as a community,
I'm not sure we focused on the right things in the past,
always, not always,
but having said that, everybody goes on a journey, right?
You start from where you are.
And in the early days of project management,
the basics was just getting any kind
of control over projects, right?
So that, that's okay, that's good to start there.
But it was, you know, you wanted that control so
that you could deliver the value, um, which brings,
which brings us, well, it brings us to that,
to the value discussion.
So, so again, those of you know, me know,
I'm a little bit kind of duck duck crazy.
This particular duck, by the way, sits on my shelf waiting
for the next conference I go to.
Well, Lanka, the, the, um, chief of staff for the PMI,
this is Lanka's Duck.
So Lanka, if you're listening,
this is the one I told you about.
This is on my shelf waiting for you.
Um, so the idea of the ducks is that, you know,
your projects are like ducks, right?
Your stakeholders, your executives really
don't care about your project.
They don't care about your Gantt chart.
They don't care about your own value report.
They don't care about any of that waterfall.
Agile don't care. And they don't care if you have a boy
duck or a girl duck.
They just want eggs. They want the value of projects.
So, so let's, let's stay with value for a little while
and, um, uh, Gabrielle,
we've not been to you for a little while.
Um, so, so Gabrielle, te tell us what some
of the big differences are in pmbok, uh, PMBOK eight,
around value and
how we're gonna protect and deliver that value.
And, uh, and, and again, let's, you know,
this is the first PMBOK guide.
I think that that has a, a section on PMOs.
So again, with, with a, with a, with a focus on
what do the PMOs on this call need to be doing
to protect that value?
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
So basically, uh, as PMOs, as PMO leaders, what we, uh,
especially within the, the companies that are
focusing on construction, industrial projects, usually the,
uh, list of the projects
or initiatives within the, uh, portfolio are related
to CapEx investments, capital expend expenditures.
But what we did with this change of, uh, definition, also
with the appendix of PMO, we focus on the value
and what it means that the projects
that might not be traditional CapEx projects should also,
or maybe involved within the portfolio if it brings value.
For instance, I had like several, uh,
within different companies, uh, I had issues where
to put this kind of projects
where we are doing like internal changes like, uh,
where we have, like, for instance, um, different ways
of working for supply chain, uh, operations,
where when it comes to people, you know, like fts
and things, I, I, I couldn't put
that project within my portfolio
because it wouldn't, uh, uh, stand the, the classical,
you know, triple constrain, uh, things because,
but it was still change
and a huge change within the organization.
And what we focus now is, uh, that different kind
of projects, initiatives could be involved
within the portfolio.
And also PMO is no longer, uh, folks, uh,
that are just tracking the progress, you know,
doing the reports or establishing some policies basically.
Now, PMO means that you are, uh, related to value gatekeeper
of the value, if I can call that.
And also that the PMO is, uh, no longer focusing,
you know, uh, about being only assistant or like,
or directive PMO.
Uh, with the, um, um, uh, this new addition,
what we also mentioned, uh, not trying to be too
prescriptive that PMO could have different settings,
and it should be, uh, related to
what organization really needs
to tailor the PMO to the needs.
So basically, the client is in the center,
and if your client is saying that you as a PMO leader,
you need to focus on IT tools to automate, you know, the,
the reports automate decision making to have like da,
data-driven decision making.
So as a PMO, you should apply to this kind
of client requirements.
So I think this is also a huge change.
And what I really liked with this, uh, PMO eight edition
that we worked quite in line with, uh, PMO guide folks,
uh, that were establishing that guide,
we didn't saw them or hear them.
I still don't know who are like, uh, actual, uh,
actual people, you know, I haven't seen them face to face.
Uh, but we try to be, uh, quite open
because we have like separate document that is like, really
well made and like really has like great, uh, examples
and suggestions for PMOs.
And we didn't want to be like so specific within our guide,
because not every organization might have a PMO.
It might be called like value deliver office
or transformation office or whatever.
But, uh, the emphasis is on value,
doesn't matter how you call it.
You can call it XMO or, or whatever.
So I think that that's also really important.
Not the title, but the meaning behind.
And that's the rule is more strategy aligned
as it never has been,
because basically, uh, we are the key gatekeepers that
all the projects should be aligned to the strategy.
And I think that's important.
And this is why we make the reports we,
and different processes,
or do the co compliance checks or audit checks
And, and sort of building on that, right?
If, if, if the, if the project is there to
maximize the value, then the portfolio that is there
to maximize the return across the portfolio, right?
The value across the portfolio.
And so that means
that suddenly portfolio management is integral to,
uh, project management, right?
It's not some optional thing.
Doing portfolio management is an, is kind of the first step.
It's the precursor.
It's the, it's the stage that we set
before the players walk onto the stage, right?
How, how lyrical is that?
And so that leads nicely into will, uh, who will,
I think you owe me an email, actually, I've, uh,
pinged you a bunch of times,
but anyway, sorry, set that aside.
Will, hi, welcome. Um, will got a couple
of questions here, right?
Uh, and I think it's really,
they're both really, really interesting.
First of all, um, he is saying, uh, how do you come up
with a common currency for value?
And, uh, you know, is, should it be, you know,
financial ROI or something like that?
Um, and then he is got a follow on question, which is
around, um, how do you,
how do you measure this success thing, this value thing
in the context of value streams, right?
So, so continuous investment, uh, value streams
or product or something like that.
So, Mike, can you take the first one of those?
How do you come up with that common?
How would you recommend people come up with
that current common currency for measuring
and determining value, contribution to strategy?
A perfect commercial for transparent choice, right?
So, um, one of the most challenging things
to do in selecting the highest, uh, you know,
the highest ROI projects is, you know, we have something
that might generate lots of profit
and something that might
improve employee morale and welfare.
Um, now we know from lots of studies
that high employee morale
and welfare does tend to lead to higher profits,
but what's the, what's the exact connection
and how much additional profit?
Well, who's to say, um,
and who's to say what
that we'll get the industry average in our context, right?
So if both of those projects cost the same thing,
how do we choose between the two?
If we must choose just the one?
Well, um, transparent choice actually, uh, exists to solve
that, to, to answer that question, right?
To compare the apples
and oranges, especially if I prefer bananas
or something else, right?
Um, so that way there's some way to harmonize the sense
of value according to the subjective opinions
of the leaders of the organization.
Uh, note I said, subjective opinions, which
for the financial analysts among you, um, uh,
or people that really love numbers, that might be,
that might sound wrong,
but the reality is, uh,
per value is in the eye of the beholder.
And yes, you can measure things like profit and all of that,
but, uh, but before we actually achieve the profit
or the benefit of the employee morale and welfare boost
or whatever, we have to actually, uh, assess how much of
that we think we might get.
And that's inherently subjective, right?
It comes from people's, uh, intuition and experience, right?
And so we want to harvest
and harness that collective wisdom of, uh,
of the leadership team that we've asked to,
to address this question.
And, uh, the software transparent choice does, uh,
is designed to do exactly that.
I'll add a second thing that is not a commercial
for transparent choice, and it's not in the PMBOK guide,
but that's only because, uh,
we would've needed a few hundred more pages,
maybe a few thousand more pages,
and we didn't wanna get overly prescriptive.
And that is, uh, take Jesse's example of, um,
the Sydney Opera House.
Uh, two things. One, there probably is a minimum threshold
of value we wanna see.
And if the budget went, uh, a hundred times over
and the schedule took a hundred years,
we probably would fall below that threshold,
even though it is a UNESCO site
and has all this enormous value
and probably tourism and who knows what else.
Um, and so I find that putting the target value that we hope
to achieve, and the minimum below which we refuse to accept
can be very helpful when we're trying to be clear about,
yes, hey, here's what we're after.
And the sky, not even the sky's the limit,
but if it ever falls
below this threshold, we should kill it.
Uh, I, I wanna build on that Mike, uh,
because there's so, uh,
hi, uh, I'm Jesse, I'm an agile practitioner.
And, and one of, one of the, one of the critiques that, uh,
that we heard about this project was, oh my goodness,
an agile list is going to be the chair of the PMBOK guide.
We're all going to hell, lions
and tigers, uh, like, um, lions and sheep are friends.
Uh, up is down, black is white. It makes no sense.
And so, one of, one of the, I think one of the benefit
or the, the, the benefits
or the gifts that the Agile movement has given
to the project management community is it has awoken us
to the market expectation around this conversation.
We need to focus on the value for investment.
Uh, we intentionally deferred the conversation
of the PMBOK guide, the difference between outcome,
benefit, value.
Um, there is a benefits realization, uh, practice guide
that PMI publishes for those of you
who are really interested in that level of nuance
and that qualitative subjective
conversation that you're having, Mike.
But my critique of my own Agile community is that
some we need to have measures.
And the agile community, as good as they've done
for highlighting the need for a value conversation,
have failed miserably to provide any concrete measures
or examples of how to measure value.
And so, Mike offered a really good
example, employee morale and welfare.
Employee net promoter score is a really good example.
Another one might be, uh, a lagging indicator might be
around retention, uh, and attrition.
There are metrics that are specific
to three different categories from my,
from my, from where I sit.
The the first one that's obvious is the money category.
Um, ROI net pres net present value.
Uh, if you're in, in at a project that's looking
to cut costs, and then the amount of money you have
to invest to cut those costs is very straightforward.
But to your point, sometimes it's a
mission that we're serving.
And the mission is around how many metric tons
of carbon are we gonna remove out of the air
with this new product that, with this new, um, filter
that we're going to install.
Uh, another one, uh, might be,
how many homeless people are we going to feed
with this new government policy?
And to your point, Mike, what is the minimum
that we're going to target, uh, the minimum that we're going
to accept in that mission metric of value
and impact versus the target?
And then the third category is, I think is the one
that's most common for, for all of us that serve in PMOs
and serve large organizations.
And it's not re we may not have a project
that has direct ROI, we may not have a project
that has direct impact on the mission.
Many of our projects, if not most of 'em,
are about the mechanics of the organization.
And so I would say, what are the
KPIs that we're going to impact?
Every operations team has their operational KPIs
that they're held accountable to by their executives.
So any project should, in some cases, what's the lead time
for that HR team to hire somebody?
And in some cases, what's the, uh, the cycle time, uh, for,
uh, that, uh, a, a product to get through the, uh,
the mission, uh, the, the, the factory floor?
So whether you have a, uh, a, a money project,
a mission project, or a mechanics, uh,
organizational mechanics, uh, project, there's some measure
that you can find, uh, that can make the case.
Now, there's no universal index on that.
There's still going to be that apples, oranges,
and bananas comparison.
But, uh, there are numbers that,
that we can bring to back. So, so,
So, so as Mike said, this is, this is our wheelhouse,
which is why I'm deliberately,
I'm trying not to get involved.
'cause if I do, this conversation will go way too long.
Um, but the one thing I will say is that, um, you know,
that definition of value is really key.
One of the resources in our website, Lenora,
if you are still on, could you go find the link to the
criteria ebook please, and drop it into the chat.
Um, so we have, we have actually a couple of eBooks.
There's kind of the Beginner's guide
and the more Advanced guide into, uh, project criteria,
uh, project prioritization criteria.
That's how we define value.
This is how we define the contribution to the,
those three buckets that, that, uh, Jesse just talked about.
And that ebook is completely free,
and it'll really walk you through the whole thing.
There's something like 80, 82, uh, template
criteria that you might use.
We're not saying use them, don't use all of them, please.
Uh, but it'll hopefully act as inspiration.
So if you're interested in that, go, go download the guide.
Lenora, if you could go find that
and drop it in the chat, that would be awesome.
Thank you very much. Um, just really quickly, I've,
I've got one more question to follow on.
Um, but before I do, people are starting
to drift off 'cause they've got other things to do.
Um, this session is being recorded,
and you will receive an email from, uh, one
of my team called pre P-R-E-E-T-I.
So look for an email from Pretty at Transparent Choice,
and she'll send across a bunch of, um, materials
and follow up in the recording
and all that kind of good stuff.
So there'll be an information pack coming
through from Pretty, so look for that.
Uh, if you see this crazy name, pretty, uh,
she's based out in, in India.
She's actually just, uh, last week moved back down
to Rabba from the Himalayas.
Um, uh, so she's been with us for years.
So if you see this crazy Indian person, it's, it's not some,
it's not somebody trying to steal all your pension money.
It is in fact, uh, one of my team.
Uh, so please be nice to her. She's lovely. Um, fabulous.
So we've been talking about value
and we've talked a little bit about value
to the business, right?
So, so, so that's, that's something
that your execs going up the chain, uh,
your stakeholders going up the chain care about.
What about the, the, the PMs?
So again, we're talking to PMO audience.
Do you have any thoughts on how
to engage the PM community if you are the PMO leader, how
to engage the PM community in, in your organization to,
to first of all, get them excited
and interested in PMBOK eight,
but then to actually get some juice from it, right?
To get some value from it?
Gabrielle, you're nodding along with
that one. Why don't you go first?
Yeah, so basically what I also liked about this edition
that we also go gone from the titles again,
what, what is the project manager?
Because within different organization
that their organization might have like 10 people
and they might not, not have like, um, the money
or the resources to hire like separate PMs.
And it might be like some, uh, person
who is the having different title,
but he's doing the function.
So basically within the PM block, what we changed that, uh,
we don't make an emphasis that there is a project manager
and the project team and yada yada, yada.
But there is a project management team
that could be called differently.
It could be called like a project leader.
It could be like different position.
It could, uh, have like some, uh, more agile, you know,
specific, uh, language like project owner, um,
different type of names.
And for us, it, uh, it,
what was most important was the competencies
that these people bring and responsibilities.
And we also talked really a lot about accountable leadership
and owning, you know, what you do, owning your project.
So I think when, uh, PMOs talk with the project managers
or how they're called with don't care, uh, as long
as the person cares about
and owns the project that he is doing,
and, um, the deliverables
and the results are there, I think that's fine.
And I think here, here we opened, uh,
more discussion on that topic, and it's more flexible.
You know, we, we are more flexible within different kind
of organization,
and we are not like, you know, uh,
waterfall Agile or something.
And what I also liked, uh, about this edition,
and lots of people mentioned when we had, like the survey
before the pm b uh, development, uh,
people demanded the examples.
We try to even put more examples,
but they were like taken out
because we didn't want to write 1000 page book.
Uh, but we try to, uh,
after each bigger section to, uh,
provide some ex examples for the people, for, for the folks
that work with real projects, not the theoretical projects,
to understand what we really wanted to say.
So I think this is also useful for like, folks
that are doing the projects, not focusing on, you know,
like strategic alignment and things like that.
Awesome. And,
and in case you haven't checked out Gabriela's profile,
that is coming from the project of the Year
award winner, right?
So, you know, we should,
Sorry, Stuart to interrupt you.
I, I, I'm, I wasn't the winner.
I, I worked in the company in the previous years, so, sorry,
I, I don't want to take the, you know, the pride.
I'm, I'm, I'm gonna go with Mike
and we'll just kind of bow down
and say we are not worthy to be on a, on a call, Gabriel.
Oh, come on. So look, I, I, I, we're,
we're at the top of the hour.
So Jesse, I'm gonna give you the final word,
just any final thoughts
that you'd like to share with everybody.
Um, and then I have one quick advert, two quick adverts
before everybody disappears,
which I hope you're gonna be very interested in.
Not not necessarily transparent choice stuff,
but other stuff around PMO I wanna build.
So, one quick thought, Jesse, and then I'll,
Yeah, I, I wanna build on, on, on Gabrieli's, uh, call
to action for you as PMO leaders.
Uh, the PMBOK is an important document
and many of your PMs may never have actually been exposed
to it, and now is a great time to, uh, to introduce them
to both the rich heritage
that we've had over the last 40 years with the PMBOK guy
that's coming up on his 40th anniversary.
Uh, and also, uh, introducing more modern,
contemporary, immediate marketplace
guidance and expectations.
It is not a cookbook, it is not a how to guide.
It is a guide. It, it, it's, it's a guide on, on, on what
to consider and why to consider you should be doing things.
So, um, that the three of us invested two years
of our lives, um, making sure
that we could have a positive impact on your PMO
and your staff project management staff.
So we encourage you to take a look at it, maybe even have a,
a lunch and learn or a, uh, a team conversation about it.
Awesome. Uh, Jen, I, I see your question there.
Um, you know how to reach me book time with me
and I'll, I'll take that one offline, uh, if you don't mind
'cause we're kind of at the top of the hour.
Um, so two very quick, um,
two very quick things from me before we all go.
Uh, first one is the link that Lenora pasted is actually,
um, to book time with me
or one of my team to, um, to basically work,
walk through the case for change the business case
for the PMO, right?
So PIM PMBOK Guide being really
released is a great opportunity
to engage your leadership team in, in a conversation around
what is the value of my PMO?
And at conferences, the most common question
that I get from people is, how do I get my execs attention?
Or how do I get 'em to buy into my PMO?
Some version of that question.
So if you book a lay, uh, you book a meeting with me, uh,
we've got this little workshop that we run through
with people to help tell that story.
And PMBOK is a golden exec, golden opportunity for you
to engage in that conversation.
So please click on that.
And then my second, uh, little advert is for the PMI, uh,
two years ago bought the PMO Global Alliance.
If you're not specifically a member
of the PMO Global Alliance, go sign up for that now.
And, uh, in March, towards the end of March, um,
the PMO Global Alliance is hosting an event in San Diego,
California, uh, which is the Unconference.
So this is, there, there, there's a little bit
of normal speaking and panels
and all that kind of good stuff, but most of the content is
real hands-on workshops with every, with with facilitators
walking rooms full of people, PMO leaders, all of them, uh,
through ideas like,
how do we actually deliver
successful business transformation?
Or how do we lead in an ESG world?
Or, you know, how do we make sure we
as a PMO are delivering value
to our customers, to our stakeholders?
That was one of the sessions I led, uh, last year,
uh, in Istanbul.
Uh, so I'm gonna be there, I'm gonna be reading,
leading a couple of workshops on the business,
in the business transformation track.
Um, uh, so it's gonna be a lot of fun.
Uh, if you can go, I would strongly recommend it.
It's, it's not like the Global Summit
where you've got 4,000 people,
but only a small number of 'em are PMO leaders.
This is all PMO leadership typically at this event.
And it's a golden opportunity to not just interact
with people, you know, self-styled thought leaders,
but also with, uh, your peers
and to, to bar get ideas
and inspiration from the people out there doing the
job with you.
So if you can, I would go and, uh, take a look at that.
Uh, if you look, uh, the PMO Global Alliance, um, uh,
on conference in San Diego in March,
uh, it's gonna be great.
Uh, a great event. Hope to see some of you there. Excellent.
Um, so I, I just, it just remains to thank you all
for coming, but most of all, uh, uh, Jesse, Mike
and Gabriela, not just for turning up today,
but for the effort, the massive effort you've put in over
the last two years to create this thing called the PIN
Book eight Guide.
So thank you guys. Really, really appreciate it.
Thanks very much everyone.