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My name is Stuart Stuart Easton.

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Um, some of you have not been on our webinars before.

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Most of you probably have,

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I think I recognize most of the names.

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Um, so we do, we do two webinars a month.

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Uh, so, so I run a company called Transparent Choice.

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Um, I spend most of my time doing that.

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Um, uh,

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and we do portfolio management, software,

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benefit management software, that kind of stuff,

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project prioritization, all those sorts of things.

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Uh, the things that compliment your PPM tool.

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But most PPM tools don't do a great job of that.

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We knock it out. The park advert over,

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um, the rest of my time.

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I spend, um, bouncing

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around the world talking about rubber ducks

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and topics that PMOs care about, uh, at, at conferences.

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And I am absolutely privileged

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to meet some amazing people on that journey, uh,

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including today's speakers, today's panelists.

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Um, so you know, Mike, I've known you the longest.

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Jesse, we actually met face-to-face for,

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for the first time in LA last year.

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Um, I think, uh,

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and Gabriela, we had the chance

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to meet face-to-face at the Global Summit in Phoenix tail

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end of last year, which was, which was awesome.

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Um, so, uh, the reason

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that we have these particular speakers today is

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that these are three of the team, the core team that created

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this thing called PMBOK eight.

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And, uh, as I said earlier, what I want to do is I want

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to dig in a little bit more into, yeah, sure.

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What's different, why does it matter,

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but from the PMOs point of view, um,

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and, uh, so I invited them along.

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They very graciously, uh, joined us.

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So I'm not gonna introduce the speakers,

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I'm gonna let them introduce themselves.

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But I'm gonna do it with a, a particular question, which is,

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I, I, I'd like you to introduce each of you, uh,

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introduce yourselves, tell us who you are,

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but also tell us why you were part of the team.

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What was it that made you a special member of that,

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that team that put the PMBOK eight together.

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And Gabrielle, I'm going to start with you if that's okay.

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Okay. So first of all, Stuart, uh, Jesse.

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Mike, uh, I'm, uh, I'm honored actually

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to participate in this amazing, uh, webinar.

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And I'm really thankful for all the guests

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and attendees that are actively sharing, uh,

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their location, their weather.

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And, uh, basically I'm coming from really small

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country of Lithuania.

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We have less than 3 million of people.

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Uh, it's located just above the Poland in Europe.

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And, uh, I personally, my whole adult life work

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with projects with project management for the last 14 years.

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And, uh, half of my experience was related

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as project manager work.

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And then I switched to portfolio and, uh, and PMO positions.

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And basically, uh, it is mostly related

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to infrastructure projects, also, some IT projects, some,

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um, um, PMO establishment, portfolio establishment projects.

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And, uh, basically I'm also really keen on sustainability

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and new digital technologies.

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So I think this was also like the reason why I, I came

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to this amazing, uh, family, if I can say that, of people

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who worked on PM B eight

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and had amazing opportunity to that, to do

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that for the last two years.

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Uh, so I think I was also really lucky, to be honest.

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I think they were lucky, Gabrielle, and,

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and yes, you did hear that right

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for the last two years, right?

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These things are not done in a week.

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This is a huge piece of work.

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So I just want to lead the applause

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before we even get started with the team and,

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and, you know, offer thanks on, on behalf of the community

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to everyone in community who, uh,

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who contributed to PMBOK eight.

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Not just the guys on this call,

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but the whole, the whole team.

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Um, it was a, a huge, huge effort.

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Um, and by the way, anybody who, uh, has not been

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to Lithuania, which I'm gonna guess is most

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of the people on this call, I have to say it's one

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of my favorite places that I've been to in recent years.

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Um, I've had the privilege

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of speaking at the Bridge Conference in Lithuania,

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keynote there last year, or the year before.

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Can't remember now. Um, and been there three times, I think.

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And it is just beautiful. The people are warm, friendly.

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Um, skip the pink soup. That's all I can say, right?

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Everything else is great, but skip the pink soup, uh, right.

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Let's move on. Uh, Jesse, go ahead.

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Um, same question to you, my friend.

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Uh, well, greetings everybody.

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Uh, my name's Jesse

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and I work in, uh, a variety of industries helping,

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um, organizations change.

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And so business transformation, agile transformation,

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digital transformation, working with, um,

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everyone from the Federal Reserve Bank of the United States

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to the local public school district to, um,

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uh, BAE systems.

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Uh, and I, I wasn't, I got involved in this project

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because I was the only one

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who believed in the last pro pmbok, if, if any

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of you were paying attention in 2021.

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The PMBOK seventh edition was very controversial

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because it threw away all of the things

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that we were trained on, those inputs, tools, techniques,

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and outputs, and those knowledge areas and process groups.

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In 2021, they all went away

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and everyone just said, what are you doing?

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So, uh, I was out campaigning, explaining

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how you could use the PIM box seven to, um,

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to craft an approach to a project.

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And, uh,

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because I was the only one doing this at the time, uh,

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PMI approached me and said, we, we need someone

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to do the eighth edition to take us from, to,

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to bridge the old world and the new world.

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Would you be willing to share this?

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And I said, okay, I'll try it.

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I asked four other people to join me as co-chair.

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Every single one said, no way. No way.

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So, um, I I, I had to lean into this knowing that, um,

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whoever volunteered to join this effort

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truly had a passion for, for difficult, difficult projects.

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So, uh, that's a little bit of a, uh, of a tip

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to let you know what Mike and Gabrielle are, are capable of.

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They knew what they were getting into, and they said yes.

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Whereas some of my other colleagues were just not, there's,

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I don't see how this is another disaster, Jesse.

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It's gonna be a disaster. You know it.

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Why, why are you doing it?

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So, um, that's how I came into it. I was voluntold.

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Excellent. I love that. I love that.

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And, and I dare say we might touch on some

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of those controversial changes, uh, as we move forward.

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Um, I know I've certainly had an earful from a few people.

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'cause I, I'm, I'm a bit of a champion for, uh,

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for PMBOK eight in the direction it's heading.

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Uh, and I know that the journey's not over yet, right?

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There's the, you know,

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there'll be a PMBOK nine at some point,

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and the, the, the journey will continue, uh,

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as it as it should.

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Um, so, uh, fantastic. Uh, Mike, over to you, my friend.

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Yeah. So, uh, I'm,

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I'm self-employed in this project portfolio space.

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It's my professional passion.

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I've been doing it for almost 15 years.

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And, uh, I left the cushy world at W2 jobs.

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That's what we call cushy jobs in the us.

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Um, to do it thinking that I would never make anywhere near,

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I would, I would, I would have to, I would have

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to lower my quality of life, lower my standard of living,

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um, and accept, uh, the poor man's fate

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because nobody cares about PMOs and project portfolios.

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And I'd be lucky if I could make a living at all.

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And unfortunately, it has worked out to the point where

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I wanted to leave a lasting impact

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and maybe write sort of a final

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Swan song book before I retire.

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At which point Jesse reached out

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to me since we've known each other for a bit,

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and said, now, Mike,

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you only get like 10,000 people read that book.

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Let help me write a book

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where millions of people might read it.

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And I was like, oh, really? What book is that?

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He said, oh, that, the, the next edition of the PMBOK guide.

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I was like, that's a joke, right? You're kidding.

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Like, that's the, I could think

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of 5,000 things I would rather do with my volunteer time,

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then a PMBA guy.

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And, uh, about 15 minutes later, he convinced me

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that this might actually be a great way to,

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to leave a lasting impact.

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Um, so thank you, Jesse.

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You're, you're a phenomenal sales guy,

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even if the other people turned you down.

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And side note, uh, well, two, two side notes.

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P PMBOK seven said, for the first time in any PMBOK guide,

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and the first time in many PM circles, I've traversed

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project management is a system for value delivery.

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Why did it take seven additions to say that simple phrase

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that we all hopefully intuitively grasp?

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Uh, but then the challenge was, okay,

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let's make it more real for people.

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That's great as a mindset shift, thank you PIM box seven

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for helping us, uh, reorient the mindset.

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But now how do we teach, say,

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a junior project manager who's just getting into it

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for the first time, how to take that

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and actually make it, make it real and, and do it.

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So that was, uh, one of our primary challenges in PI Box

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eight, and I am all for that.

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My other side note is Jesse's modest, he'll never tell you

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that, uh, he is now contributed as an author or co-author

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or chair to half of the existing PMBOK guides.

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Wow. I did not realize that. That's amazing.

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5, 6, 7, 8.

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I, uh, uh, yeah, it's, it's, well, you're only

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Like 12 years old for number one, right?

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Yeah. Uh, glutton for punishment.

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Another note about Mike, um, me, uh, kind

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of convincing Mike, uh, to be a part of this.

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I convinced him to apply.

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Uh, so, uh, just a a quick note that, um, you, the way

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that you get involved in this is not be

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by being friends with Stuart.

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Um, the way that you get involved in this is

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by submitting an application to PM's volunteer website

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and making a case and side note.

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So here's my side note.

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Gabriela's application was the last one we accepted

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out of hundreds upon hundreds of applications.

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Um, she got in right at the deadline.

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Um, so she is the, she's the, uh,

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the PhD in submitting right at the, the,

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the last possible responsible moment.

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And as a result, um, we had the benefit of, of finding her

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and bringing her onto to the team. So, um,

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Great example of just in time delivery.

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Yes,

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I love it. I love it. Okay,

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let's, let's, let's move on.

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Um, so I, I've got a bunch of questions,

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but actually I'm gonna kick off with a question from Guy,

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guy Wolf, um, uh,

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because it's gonna flow into some of the other stuff

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that we, we want to talk about.

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Uh, so first of all, guy, I didn't know

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that you were a fellow nuclear physicist.

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Um, I may have gone through it a little bit after you,

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but not that far after you.

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Uh, so, so Guy says, uh, is my PMBOK edition five

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as obsolete as my 1970s textbook on nuclear physics?

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Should I just throw it away

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and get a hard copy of number eight?

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So, uh, Jesse, since you've been involved in so many

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of them, I'm gonna put that question to you first.

249
00:11:49.135 --> 00:11:53.885
Oh, my goodness. Uh, so Guy, you will be, uh,

250
00:11:54.205 --> 00:11:58.005
I think comforted to hear that one of the people

251
00:11:58.025 --> 00:12:01.965
who declined to join us on this adventure is, um,

252
00:12:03.265 --> 00:12:04.645
uh, one of my, one

253
00:12:04.645 --> 00:12:06.085
of my favorite project managers in the world.

254
00:12:06.085 --> 00:12:08.485
His name is SK Core, and he builds airports,

255
00:12:09.185 --> 00:12:12.645
and he's the PM behind, uh, um,

256
00:12:14.985 --> 00:12:18.415
the, um, the newest airport in Southeast Asia.

257
00:12:19.545 --> 00:12:23.535
Um, I believe in Cambodia.

258
00:12:25.455 --> 00:12:30.195
And, and he told me, um, when he declined,

259
00:12:30.195 --> 00:12:33.395
because he was a little bit busy building an airport, um,

260
00:12:33.855 --> 00:12:35.195
but he told me, he said,

261
00:12:35.195 --> 00:12:38.435
the seventh edition is just not helpful to what I do.

262
00:12:39.095 --> 00:12:44.015
Um, I use the fifth edition to, uh,

263
00:12:44.115 --> 00:12:45.895
to teach all of my PMs

264
00:12:45.895 --> 00:12:47.455
what the expectations are for this program.

265
00:12:48.705 --> 00:12:51.085
And, uh, and we have multiple work streams,

266
00:12:51.225 --> 00:12:53.685
and all those PMs need to be really good at their jobs

267
00:12:53.745 --> 00:12:54.885
and their, and their work streams.

268
00:12:54.905 --> 00:12:56.765
And he's, and, and it made sense to me

269
00:12:56.765 --> 00:13:00.815
because the sixth edition was, uh,

270
00:13:01.635 --> 00:13:03.055
was a little bit bloated.

271
00:13:03.075 --> 00:13:04.735
It was a little bit too big,

272
00:13:04.915 --> 00:13:07.695
and it had a lot of duplication in the content

273
00:13:07.695 --> 00:13:10.695
because it was the first time that we had, um,

274
00:13:10.965 --> 00:13:14.935
separated the PMBOK guide into an antsy standard as well

275
00:13:14.935 --> 00:13:15.935
as a body of knowledge.

276
00:13:17.035 --> 00:13:20.075
And so, um, I wouldn't say

277
00:13:20.075 --> 00:13:21.635
that the fifth edition is obsolete.

278
00:13:21.795 --> 00:13:23.995
I would say that it served as inspiration

279
00:13:24.175 --> 00:13:25.395
for a lot of us for many decades.

280
00:13:26.375 --> 00:13:28.435
Uh, I would instead say that, uh,

281
00:13:28.515 --> 00:13:30.635
I would keep it alongside your collection

282
00:13:31.895 --> 00:13:33.675
of other, uh, books.

283
00:13:33.815 --> 00:13:35.635
You might find that, uh, uh,

284
00:13:35.695 --> 00:13:37.915
the eighth edition has treats some

285
00:13:37.915 --> 00:13:38.995
of the same topics a little

286
00:13:38.995 --> 00:13:40.275
bit interestingly and differently.

287
00:13:40.335 --> 00:13:44.315
But then, like, sk, who's one of the best in the business,

288
00:13:44.495 --> 00:13:45.515
you might find that you go back

289
00:13:45.515 --> 00:13:47.555
to your old faithful from time to time

290
00:13:47.555 --> 00:13:48.675
to share it with a colleague.

291
00:13:49.635 --> 00:13:51.195
Brilliant. What a great, what a great answer.

292
00:13:51.215 --> 00:13:52.875
So, I'm, I'm gonna add a bit of color,

293
00:13:52.875 --> 00:13:54.835
and bear in mind, I wasn't on the committee.

294
00:13:54.975 --> 00:13:57.875
I'm not on the team. I have no, I'm not in the pay

295
00:13:57.875 --> 00:13:58.995
of the PMI, of course,

296
00:13:59.035 --> 00:14:00.835
I volunteer like so many others, right?

297
00:14:00.935 --> 00:14:04.595
In, in my own way. Um, so this is how I see it, right,

298
00:14:05.095 --> 00:14:07.755
is the, the, the old pin box.

299
00:14:09.065 --> 00:14:13.035
Were really built to be the absolute gold standard

300
00:14:13.335 --> 00:14:15.795
of everything you would need to run

301
00:14:16.535 --> 00:14:17.675
any project in the world,

302
00:14:17.925 --> 00:14:22.225
especially big ass projects like building airports, right?

303
00:14:23.805 --> 00:14:27.345
But most project managers in the world don't build airports.

304
00:14:28.205 --> 00:14:29.735
They run much smaller projects.

305
00:14:30.755 --> 00:14:33.575
And so, to me, what, what, what was, so, so

306
00:14:33.575 --> 00:14:36.135
what PMI has done is they have created a specific

307
00:14:37.615 --> 00:14:39.175
certification for people who build airports.

308
00:14:39.855 --> 00:14:41.935
I can't remember what it's called. Reen is the guy at

309
00:14:42.015 --> 00:14:43.175
PMI that that drives it.

310
00:14:44.335 --> 00:14:46.175
PICP Construction person.

311
00:14:46.175 --> 00:14:48.335
Thank you. There you go. That's the one. That's the one.

312
00:14:48.795 --> 00:14:51.565
Uh, so, well, Ben's gonna give you grief when he sees me

313
00:14:51.565 --> 00:14:53.765
next for not remembering the name of it, but there you go.

314
00:14:54.145 --> 00:14:57.445
Um, so, so they've created a specific certification

315
00:14:57.445 --> 00:14:59.085
for people who build airports, not,

316
00:14:59.625 --> 00:15:01.245
and other, you know, other types

317
00:15:01.265 --> 00:15:03.245
of capital project are available.

318
00:15:04.105 --> 00:15:07.365
Um, which means that, that, that the PMBOK guide can kind

319
00:15:07.365 --> 00:15:10.605
of reposition itself to be a more flexible tool,

320
00:15:11.005 --> 00:15:14.725
a more usable tool, more accessible tool for, for the,

321
00:15:14.725 --> 00:15:16.645
for the whole community, for the rest of the community.

322
00:15:16.665 --> 00:15:17.725
That's the way I see it.

323
00:15:18.025 --> 00:15:19.365
I'm sh that may not be the way

324
00:15:19.365 --> 00:15:20.885
that you guys positioned it

325
00:15:20.885 --> 00:15:22.365
internally, but that's the way I see it.

326
00:15:23.275 --> 00:15:26.125
Gabrielle, uh, what do you, what do you think about this?

327
00:15:26.365 --> 00:15:28.645
'cause you've, you've worked in a variety of industries.

328
00:15:28.885 --> 00:15:30.525
I think probably more than most of us.

329
00:15:31.225 --> 00:15:32.845
Uh, I don't think that most of you,

330
00:15:32.945 --> 00:15:35.645
but, uh, yeah, I worked in, uh, energy industries,

331
00:15:35.675 --> 00:15:39.525
different types of like hydrogen, like solars, uh, uh,

332
00:15:40.005 --> 00:15:44.045
batteries, and also clinical research, also startups, uh,

333
00:15:44.355 --> 00:15:46.845
real estate and, uh, manufacturing.

334
00:15:47.025 --> 00:15:48.165
But what I learned,

335
00:15:48.345 --> 00:15:50.685
and I wouldn't say throw a away, just collect them,

336
00:15:50.685 --> 00:15:55.365
because someday later on, 20, 30 years, uh,

337
00:15:55.415 --> 00:15:57.565
later on, you, you might, uh, sell it

338
00:15:57.625 --> 00:15:59.285
for a huge amount of money.

339
00:15:59.585 --> 00:16:02.045
And if you can get Jesse's signature

340
00:16:02.265 --> 00:16:04.445
or niche, that would be even better, you know?

341
00:16:04.865 --> 00:16:08.685
And for me personally, when I took my certification, uh, on,

342
00:16:08.785 --> 00:16:12.965
for, for instance, portfolio management, uh, by PMI as well

343
00:16:13.605 --> 00:16:15.645
actually use the previous versions

344
00:16:15.945 --> 00:16:17.885
to better understand the concepts

345
00:16:17.885 --> 00:16:20.405
because we don't, we don't need to repeat ourselves

346
00:16:20.405 --> 00:16:21.645
because it's already written.

347
00:16:21.945 --> 00:16:25.165
So, but in some cases, if, for, for me,

348
00:16:25.665 --> 00:16:28.085
I'm not a native speaker, uh, of English,

349
00:16:28.145 --> 00:16:32.005
we don't have a translation of pm b or portfolio

350
00:16:32.025 --> 00:16:33.765
or different standards to my language

351
00:16:34.065 --> 00:16:35.805
to better understand the concepts

352
00:16:35.805 --> 00:16:38.605
that we don't even have like the similar words in

353
00:16:38.605 --> 00:16:39.805
my little language.

354
00:16:40.185 --> 00:16:43.125
So it is better to have like additional references

355
00:16:43.585 --> 00:16:48.045
of older books and standards that you can use as a learner.

356
00:16:48.425 --> 00:16:51.005
And I would say don't throw it away, just keep it.

357
00:16:51.145 --> 00:16:54.845
And also, uh, uh, coming back about being lucky,

358
00:16:55.485 --> 00:16:58.845
actually it was Lee Lambert, uh, who was the reason

359
00:16:58.875 --> 00:17:02.125
that I signed for, uh, pm b, uh,

360
00:17:02.125 --> 00:17:06.525
because I saw his fo uh, post on Facebook that he, uh, uh,

361
00:17:06.965 --> 00:17:08.805
reminded that e everyone can apply.

362
00:17:09.025 --> 00:17:10.485
And I just applied.

363
00:17:10.705 --> 00:17:14.525
And I never dreamed ever in my life that this would happen.

364
00:17:15.065 --> 00:17:18.045
Uh, I applied and, um, Jesse

365
00:17:18.505 --> 00:17:20.805
and, uh, Josh scheduled the meeting,

366
00:17:21.145 --> 00:17:22.685
and actually I forgot the meeting,

367
00:17:23.145 --> 00:17:26.565
and it was like, uh, 8:00 PM Friday,

368
00:17:26.985 --> 00:17:28.325
and I'm sitting with my husband

369
00:17:28.505 --> 00:17:32.045
and I'm like, okay, like, let's watch a movie,

370
00:17:32.225 --> 00:17:34.245
eat some popcorns and stuff like that, you know?

371
00:17:34.245 --> 00:17:37.325
And then I checked my phone and it was like 15 minutes

372
00:17:37.625 --> 00:17:39.845
before the meeting, and I was like, okay,

373
00:17:40.425 --> 00:17:41.445
let, let's do that.

374
00:17:41.465 --> 00:17:45.085
You know? And when she asked me what I didn't like,

375
00:17:45.145 --> 00:17:48.285
and if, what if I would change something, uh,

376
00:17:48.645 --> 00:17:52.325
I was like radically honest that for me personally,

377
00:17:52.515 --> 00:17:55.005
seventh Edition wasn't that actionable

378
00:17:55.225 --> 00:17:58.165
and usable, uh, in different kind of projects.

379
00:17:58.465 --> 00:18:00.645
Uh, because for instance, as you mentioned

380
00:18:00.645 --> 00:18:04.125
before, there are different standards for, uh, SCP for,

381
00:18:04.345 --> 00:18:05.925
for construction professionals.

382
00:18:06.305 --> 00:18:08.845
But also what we agreed, when we came up

383
00:18:08.845 --> 00:18:11.685
to write the standard, uh, in Los Angeles

384
00:18:11.945 --> 00:18:14.765
for the first time, when we met the whole team, we agreed

385
00:18:14.875 --> 00:18:17.565
that even the schools, even the pupils,

386
00:18:17.585 --> 00:18:19.565
the students are having the projects,

387
00:18:19.745 --> 00:18:22.125
you use this concept like so widely,

388
00:18:22.305 --> 00:18:24.605
and we cannot, you know, be so close minded

389
00:18:24.915 --> 00:18:26.925
that the projects would be, you know,

390
00:18:26.995 --> 00:18:29.645
only mega huge infrastructures.

391
00:18:29.645 --> 00:18:32.045
There are like lots of change management

392
00:18:32.315 --> 00:18:34.045
that also involves projects.

393
00:18:34.465 --> 00:18:36.245
And, uh, what we also

394
00:18:36.905 --> 00:18:40.005
did change within the PM block eight edition, we including

395
00:18:40.765 --> 00:18:43.685
included the family as a stakeholder that

396
00:18:44.255 --> 00:18:46.765
might be influenced by the project,

397
00:18:46.985 --> 00:18:48.925
or might have influenced by the project

398
00:18:49.585 --> 00:18:52.045
and what we wanted to say in that matter,

399
00:18:52.475 --> 00:18:56.045
that the projects could be like really different

400
00:18:56.075 --> 00:18:57.325
kind of initiatives.

401
00:18:57.625 --> 00:18:59.805
And going further, we'll explain

402
00:18:59.865 --> 00:19:02.205
how we also change the project definition.

403
00:19:02.385 --> 00:19:03.805
So, so that's,

404
00:19:04.355 --> 00:19:05.355
Yeah. So we, we've

405
00:19:05.355 --> 00:19:06.325
sort of slipped into

406
00:19:06.325 --> 00:19:07.445
the next question, which is great.

407
00:19:07.505 --> 00:19:08.845
So, so Mike, I'm gonna come to you.

408
00:19:09.145 --> 00:19:12.765
You know, the famously pinball eight's got more input than

409
00:19:13.145 --> 00:19:15.885
any of the previous, uh, uh, books.

410
00:19:15.995 --> 00:19:19.605
Something like 48,000 different bits of information came.

411
00:19:19.765 --> 00:19:22.245
I can't imagine handling and sifting through all of that.

412
00:19:22.745 --> 00:19:26.365
So, so based on all of that input, you know, what, what,

413
00:19:26.475 --> 00:19:29.085
what were some of the goals that the team had

414
00:19:29.675 --> 00:19:31.085
putting together the document?

415
00:19:31.085 --> 00:19:32.325
We've touched on some of 'em so far,

416
00:19:32.325 --> 00:19:33.565
but what are, what are some of the goals?

417
00:19:33.565 --> 00:19:35.445
What was it that you're really trying to get to the heart

418
00:19:35.445 --> 00:19:36.925
of based on all that feedback?

419
00:19:38.105 --> 00:19:41.405
So, some of it, uh, you know, was, as you might expect,

420
00:19:41.405 --> 00:19:44.685
right, just general voice of the customer stuff, like,

421
00:19:44.685 --> 00:19:46.645
don't make it 3000 pages, right?

422
00:19:47.145 --> 00:19:50.885
Um, and, but do make it sub substantive enough to be useful,

423
00:19:51.265 --> 00:19:52.565
um, even for junior pm.

424
00:19:52.625 --> 00:19:54.125
Uh, and even on small projects,

425
00:19:54.705 --> 00:19:56.485
and oh, by the way, we kind of liked some

426
00:19:56.485 --> 00:19:59.085
of the stuff from the previous editions that were,

427
00:19:59.475 --> 00:20:01.565
that was thrown away in, in the seventh edition.

428
00:20:02.105 --> 00:20:04.925
Uh, some of that stuff is useful, you know, in fact,

429
00:20:05.065 --> 00:20:06.805
can you extend it right and take it further?

430
00:20:07.585 --> 00:20:10.725
Um, so it was, it was just sort of good market research, uh,

431
00:20:10.725 --> 00:20:14.325
from my, from my point of view on, I, I think on top of

432
00:20:14.325 --> 00:20:19.125
that, there's a very interesting, um, commonality

433
00:20:19.905 --> 00:20:24.435
that Jesse and the PMI, um, product owner, Josh, um,

434
00:20:24.615 --> 00:20:27.035
had in mind, you can correct me if I'm getting this wrong,

435
00:20:27.035 --> 00:20:29.915
Jesse, uh, when they recruited the team, or,

436
00:20:30.015 --> 00:20:31.635
or when they reviewed all the applicants

437
00:20:31.635 --> 00:20:32.635
and decided who to interview,

438
00:20:32.655 --> 00:20:34.675
and went through the whole process of down selecting

439
00:20:35.215 --> 00:20:39.275
to the final team of, uh, you know, 12 or 13 folks, uh,

440
00:20:39.275 --> 00:20:42.755
and that was, do you actually all share the same mindset

441
00:20:43.585 --> 00:20:47.525
that this is about, uh, unlimited upside, right?

442
00:20:47.875 --> 00:20:51.885
That, that we can engineer maximum positive contributions

443
00:20:52.025 --> 00:20:54.685
to our world through our cherished

444
00:20:54.685 --> 00:20:55.965
discipline and project management.

445
00:20:56.305 --> 00:20:59.205
And if you bring that, and of course, then, you know,

446
00:20:59.275 --> 00:21:01.085
come from 10 different countries

447
00:21:01.145 --> 00:21:02.645
and, uh, you know,

448
00:21:02.965 --> 00:21:05.085
probably 30 different industries represented with our

449
00:21:05.605 --> 00:21:07.565
combined experience and don like,

450
00:21:07.565 --> 00:21:09.845
do we have the right diversity of experience based

451
00:21:09.945 --> 00:21:13.805
and perspective, uh, along with that shared core mindset

452
00:21:14.425 --> 00:21:16.445
to really make, uh, a big impact here?

453
00:21:18.915 --> 00:21:20.645
Love it. Uh, this, this idea

454
00:21:20.645 --> 00:21:23.685
of unlimited upside is something that, uh, Mike is really,

455
00:21:23.945 --> 00:21:25.085
really big into.

456
00:21:25.085 --> 00:21:26.365
Introduce me to the idea.

457
00:21:26.505 --> 00:21:29.845
And, uh, I've become a bit of a convert to the point

458
00:21:29.845 --> 00:21:33.565
where I've bounced around on stages in Dubai and,

459
00:21:33.825 --> 00:21:35.565
and, uh, Saudi Arabia

460
00:21:35.705 --> 00:21:39.165
and other places, uh, espousing a lot of those ideas that

461
00:21:39.165 --> 00:21:41.365
that might planted in my brain at least.

462
00:21:41.545 --> 00:21:42.885
So, uh, I'm, I'm glad

463
00:21:42.885 --> 00:21:44.845
that's outreaching a, a wider audience.

464
00:21:45.095 --> 00:21:47.925
Wider. So let's, let's jump into this,

465
00:21:48.235 --> 00:21:49.285
into some of the detail.

466
00:21:49.425 --> 00:21:52.525
So, um, I'm sure everybody wants to know, you know,

467
00:21:52.525 --> 00:21:53.965
what are the, what are the key differences

468
00:21:55.195 --> 00:21:56.725
from Pin Box six, seven?

469
00:21:57.465 --> 00:21:59.965
You know, six to seven was a big jump, um,

470
00:22:00.265 --> 00:22:02.085
but then jumping into eight, what are some

471
00:22:02.085 --> 00:22:03.165
of the big differences?

472
00:22:03.945 --> 00:22:08.045
And, and why did you, why did you make those decisions?

473
00:22:08.865 --> 00:22:10.805
And, and remember, this is a PMO audience,

474
00:22:10.805 --> 00:22:12.885
so we're thinking from the PMO point of view, what,

475
00:22:12.885 --> 00:22:14.845
you know, what should we be paying attention to

476
00:22:15.265 --> 00:22:17.605
as PMOs rather than just as project managers?

477
00:22:19.345 --> 00:22:23.145
I, uh, I'll, I'll start with some of the,

478
00:22:24.165 --> 00:22:28.635
uh, more, uh, I guess expected,

479
00:22:29.425 --> 00:22:30.795
some of the more expected changes.

480
00:22:31.575 --> 00:22:33.675
And then I'll let, uh, Mike

481
00:22:33.675 --> 00:22:36.555
and Gabriela talk about the more provocative changes.

482
00:22:37.535 --> 00:22:40.855
Um, the, so Mike mentioned,

483
00:22:40.855 --> 00:22:41.975
and I put it in the comments,

484
00:22:42.205 --> 00:22:45.415
this is the most data-driven PMBOK in history.

485
00:22:46.065 --> 00:22:49.935
There, uh, were 48,000 data points that were collected

486
00:22:49.935 --> 00:22:53.455
through surveys, uh, before we even started the project.

487
00:22:53.875 --> 00:22:58.855
So on day one, we knew, let me just kind of, uh, cite some

488
00:22:58.855 --> 00:22:59.855
of the statistics.

489
00:23:00.275 --> 00:23:04.255
Um, we knew that two thirds of all project managers wanted

490
00:23:04.355 --> 00:23:08.375
to keep the system for value delivered.

491
00:23:08.875 --> 00:23:12.375
We knew that 88% of project managers found the principles

492
00:23:12.395 --> 00:23:15.615
to be very important, not just important, very,

493
00:23:15.955 --> 00:23:17.135
uh, uh, important.

494
00:23:18.275 --> 00:23:21.335
Uh, and, and then at the same time, so,

495
00:23:21.395 --> 00:23:25.255
so those were the seventh edition features that, that were,

496
00:23:25.325 --> 00:23:27.415
that were considered to be very helpful

497
00:23:27.875 --> 00:23:30.375
and relevant to all projects all of the time.

498
00:23:30.755 --> 00:23:31.935
If you're building airports

499
00:23:32.155 --> 00:23:36.375
or if you're installing a new HR policy, uh, no matter what,

500
00:23:36.395 --> 00:23:38.855
you have to focus on what is the value of the work

501
00:23:38.855 --> 00:23:40.455
that we're doing, rather than just get it done.

502
00:23:40.955 --> 00:23:44.335
And those principles help guide the thinking of the, of,

503
00:23:44.395 --> 00:23:45.525
of project practitioners.

504
00:23:45.595 --> 00:23:49.845
However, the data also said, we want

505
00:23:49.845 --> 00:23:52.005
to reintroduce those processes.

506
00:23:53.645 --> 00:23:57.505
Uh, 80% wanted to reintroduce the five fundamentals

507
00:23:57.525 --> 00:24:00.665
of project management, initiating planning, executing,

508
00:24:00.985 --> 00:24:02.185
monetary, controlling, and closing.

509
00:24:03.125 --> 00:24:06.145
And in fact, uh, most of them two thirds said

510
00:24:06.145 --> 00:24:10.065
that these five things are agnostic of agile versus, uh,

511
00:24:10.065 --> 00:24:11.465
predictive versus hybrid.

512
00:24:11.575 --> 00:24:14.705
This has nothing to do with life's, uh, with methodology.

513
00:24:15.255 --> 00:24:17.705
This is every project in every industry,

514
00:24:17.705 --> 00:24:20.345
every time should have some focus.

515
00:24:21.555 --> 00:24:23.615
Uh, it's a little foreshadowing on those things.

516
00:24:24.435 --> 00:24:25.895
And yet, at the same time, uh,

517
00:24:25.895 --> 00:24:30.175
73% said they wanted those processes back.

518
00:24:31.475 --> 00:24:35.295
And, and so, uh, we, we had data

519
00:24:35.295 --> 00:24:36.735
that told us what our job was.

520
00:24:36.875 --> 00:24:40.375
It was explicitly preserve, uh, the system

521
00:24:40.375 --> 00:24:43.015
for value delivery and the principles from the seventh

522
00:24:43.015 --> 00:24:47.335
edition and reintroduce in a fresh, modern way,

523
00:24:48.195 --> 00:24:52.855
the pro the, the five process groups, uh, the f uh,

524
00:24:52.875 --> 00:24:56.815
and then, um, the 40 or so processes, again, refined

525
00:24:56.815 --> 00:24:58.095
and updated and modernized.

526
00:24:58.875 --> 00:25:02.255
Uh, these were the things that, um, were found to be like,

527
00:25:02.355 --> 00:25:04.415
we knew, we knew going into day one

528
00:25:05.005 --> 00:25:06.535
this was gonna be part of the project.

529
00:25:07.355 --> 00:25:12.175
So, um, uh, I, I'll, I'll, I'll pause there. Uh, Stuart, uh,

530
00:25:12.435 --> 00:25:13.435
That's awesome. What

531
00:25:13.435 --> 00:25:14.335
jumps out at you about that?

532
00:25:14.915 --> 00:25:16.615
And, and, and, you know, hey, Jesse,

533
00:25:16.675 --> 00:25:18.455
can you turn the enthusiasm up a bit?

534
00:25:18.595 --> 00:25:21.095
We haven't quite got enough enthusiasm coming across here.

535
00:25:21.875 --> 00:25:24.135
Um, uh, uh, Gabriela,

536
00:25:24.455 --> 00:25:26.295
anything you'd you'd like to add to that?

537
00:25:27.245 --> 00:25:31.895
Yeah, for, um, me as a, uh, manager of PMO,

538
00:25:32.045 --> 00:25:34.855
also portfolio manager, for me, it's also really important

539
00:25:34.855 --> 00:25:36.055
to have those processes

540
00:25:36.055 --> 00:25:39.015
because basically we are the people who are, uh,

541
00:25:39.015 --> 00:25:41.215
establishing the Polish policies.

542
00:25:41.275 --> 00:25:43.855
We are writing the documentations within different

543
00:25:43.855 --> 00:25:47.055
organizations, and we need that, uh, materials

544
00:25:47.055 --> 00:25:50.455
that we could count on and to have standardized.

545
00:25:50.715 --> 00:25:51.735
But what I really liked,

546
00:25:51.795 --> 00:25:56.095
and we had really, uh, interesting discussion on that is

547
00:25:56.655 --> 00:25:58.025
project definition.

548
00:25:58.335 --> 00:26:01.745
What is the project? Because, I dunno, what about you guys?

549
00:26:01.885 --> 00:26:04.345
But for me, I haven't seen

550
00:26:04.445 --> 00:26:06.745
so many unique projects, to be honest.

551
00:26:07.015 --> 00:26:09.425
Usually the context is unique.

552
00:26:09.645 --> 00:26:13.865
But for example, my company is doing some pipes for,

553
00:26:14.485 --> 00:26:16.265
um, district heating

554
00:26:16.405 --> 00:26:20.225
and hot water, sorry, everyone on my team.

555
00:26:20.565 --> 00:26:21.865
But it's not unique.

556
00:26:21.965 --> 00:26:25.705
You know, putting some pumps under the ground is not unique.

557
00:26:25.805 --> 00:26:29.985
And we do like different, uh, streets, different comm, uh,

558
00:26:29.985 --> 00:26:32.905
we, uh, uh, wind wall, different communities,

559
00:26:33.485 --> 00:26:35.825
but still, the project is not unique itself,

560
00:26:35.885 --> 00:26:37.865
but we cannot say that it's not a project

561
00:26:37.865 --> 00:26:39.265
because it has the beginning.

562
00:26:39.605 --> 00:26:43.025
Uh, it has, then it has the budget, it has the team, uh,

563
00:26:43.315 --> 00:26:46.605
also the goals and also, um, the, the,

564
00:26:46.625 --> 00:26:48.125
the metrics that we are counting.

565
00:26:48.625 --> 00:26:51.765
Uh, but the definition itself, I think now

566
00:26:51.995 --> 00:26:55.565
what we have made is more clear that, uh,

567
00:26:55.705 --> 00:26:57.165
you are not building the rocket

568
00:26:57.345 --> 00:26:59.245
or going to Mars like every time.

569
00:26:59.305 --> 00:27:02.165
And it's more useful for everyday folks

570
00:27:02.195 --> 00:27:04.845
that are project managers or PMOs

571
00:27:04.845 --> 00:27:06.525
and having like, wide variety,

572
00:27:07.035 --> 00:27:09.245
variety projects within their portfolio.

573
00:27:09.635 --> 00:27:12.645
What is the project? And also the word, the endeavor.

574
00:27:12.795 --> 00:27:15.445
That wasn't changed for a really long time. It was changed.

575
00:27:15.505 --> 00:27:16.885
And, uh, two initiative,

576
00:27:16.885 --> 00:27:20.645
because I think mentally we use that word quite commonly.

577
00:27:20.905 --> 00:27:25.565
Uh, and we use it like, as a synonym, uh, to what,

578
00:27:25.565 --> 00:27:27.325
what the project is within the company.

579
00:27:27.785 --> 00:27:30.085
So I think this change also is, uh,

580
00:27:30.675 --> 00:27:34.245
more about being user friendly, uh, that the pm b

581
00:27:34.305 --> 00:27:38.645
as a foundation for project management, for, uh, PMOs

582
00:27:38.765 --> 00:27:40.325
for portfolios as well.

583
00:27:40.325 --> 00:27:43.005
Management should be like more relatable

584
00:27:43.105 --> 00:27:44.925
to folks from lower the globe.

585
00:27:45.225 --> 00:27:48.485
And the language should, should be understandable for me,

586
00:27:48.505 --> 00:27:50.285
per personally, I cannot normally

587
00:27:50.345 --> 00:27:51.525
say the, the word endeavor.

588
00:27:51.905 --> 00:27:54.405
And I already explained that to Jesse and other folks.

589
00:27:54.505 --> 00:27:57.285
For me, it's hard to pronounce the word not being

590
00:27:57.305 --> 00:27:58.565
the, like native speaker.

591
00:27:59.695 --> 00:28:02.025
Yeah. Brilliant. So it occurs to me

592
00:28:02.025 --> 00:28:04.545
that maybe not everyone knows that the, the definition

593
00:28:04.545 --> 00:28:06.145
of project was changed with the release

594
00:28:06.145 --> 00:28:08.705
of Bimbo eight. Um, yeah,

595
00:28:08.805 --> 00:28:09.805
Go for Mike. Go for it.

596
00:28:09.805 --> 00:28:11.425
'cause Jen was asking that very question.

597
00:28:11.765 --> 00:28:13.745
So Michael, I'm gonna come to you. So give us that.

598
00:28:14.205 --> 00:28:17.625
And then what I would like to take it to is, is building on

599
00:28:17.625 --> 00:28:19.825
what Gabriela just said, if you could kind

600
00:28:19.825 --> 00:28:22.505
of give us an idea of what you think a PMO needs

601
00:28:22.505 --> 00:28:24.025
to do about it, right?

602
00:28:24.025 --> 00:28:25.185
Because all this stuff's changed.

603
00:28:25.765 --> 00:28:28.825
So what if you're running a PMO, what do you need to do

604
00:28:28.925 --> 00:28:30.945
to empower your delivery teams

605
00:28:30.945 --> 00:28:33.185
to actually embrace this stuff and get value from it?

606
00:28:34.105 --> 00:28:35.805
So let's kick off with the definition

607
00:28:36.025 --> 00:28:37.205
and then we'll go into that stuff.

608
00:28:38.635 --> 00:28:41.325
Yeah. So if you, if you're an old PM like me,

609
00:28:41.425 --> 00:28:43.965
and you've been doing this a long time, you know,

610
00:28:43.965 --> 00:28:46.725
the definition that PMI has offered, uh,

611
00:28:47.265 --> 00:28:49.765
has stayed re relatively stable for 40 plus years.

612
00:28:50.225 --> 00:28:52.925
And that is, um, a temporary initiative,

613
00:28:53.665 --> 00:28:56.205
or sorry, temporary endeavor, sorry, Gabriela,

614
00:28:56.565 --> 00:28:59.325
temporary endeavor undertaken to generate, um,

615
00:29:00.405 --> 00:29:01.965
a unique product, service or result.

616
00:29:02.545 --> 00:29:05.085
So as Gabriela was just saying, it's not the uniqueness

617
00:29:05.085 --> 00:29:06.325
of the product service or result

618
00:29:06.325 --> 00:29:08.085
that necessarily captures the essence.

619
00:29:08.675 --> 00:29:11.445
It's that the context is often maybe always unique,

620
00:29:12.035 --> 00:29:13.165
even if only minimally.

621
00:29:13.185 --> 00:29:16.445
So, uh, but the point is we're trying to get more value out

622
00:29:16.445 --> 00:29:19.485
of it than what we sacrificed in the first place, right?

623
00:29:19.985 --> 00:29:21.245
Uh, and that's the essence

624
00:29:21.345 --> 00:29:22.565
of what we're trying to get at here.

625
00:29:23.185 --> 00:29:26.925
So, uh, so you see Laura Riveri posted in the chat

626
00:29:26.925 --> 00:29:27.965
what the new definition is.

627
00:29:27.965 --> 00:29:29.525
Well done, Laura. You're paying attention.

628
00:29:30.505 --> 00:29:32.605
And, uh, and our challenge wasn't just

629
00:29:32.605 --> 00:29:34.045
to craft some new definition.

630
00:29:34.815 --> 00:29:37.155
Uh, our challenge was to make it real for people.

631
00:29:37.585 --> 00:29:38.835
What techniques exist

632
00:29:38.985 --> 00:29:42.005
that might actually help me engineer a maximum value

633
00:29:42.075 --> 00:29:43.365
outcome for my project?

634
00:29:44.105 --> 00:29:47.205
And hint, hint, it might not be just, uh,

635
00:29:47.695 --> 00:29:49.925
don't ask questions and do your scope, schedule,

636
00:29:49.925 --> 00:29:51.285
cost baseline, and, and,

637
00:29:51.465 --> 00:29:53.285
and that's not, you know, it's above your pay grade.

638
00:29:53.745 --> 00:29:56.285
Um, no, you're the one closest to your baseline.

639
00:29:56.445 --> 00:29:58.445
I hope you're the one that understands

640
00:29:58.875 --> 00:30:01.565
what the business stakeholders actually need, I hope.

641
00:30:02.225 --> 00:30:04.245
And therefore, you are uniquely positioned

642
00:30:04.345 --> 00:30:06.925
to drive a maximal value outcome, I hope.

643
00:30:09.345 --> 00:30:11.355
Yeah. Or at least you're plugged into the stakeholders

644
00:30:11.485 --> 00:30:13.075
who's who you're delivering the value to.

645
00:30:13.095 --> 00:30:15.075
So you ought to be able to figure it out, right?

646
00:30:15.145 --> 00:30:17.755
That that's part of what being a project manager is.

647
00:30:18.735 --> 00:30:22.275
So, so, um, so, so, so if that's the new definition

648
00:30:22.375 --> 00:30:26.115
and we've got a new pbo, what might do, do you think

649
00:30:26.115 --> 00:30:28.355
that the PMO leader needs to start doing

650
00:30:29.575 --> 00:30:31.955
to embed these changes to adopt

651
00:30:31.955 --> 00:30:34.275
and embed these changes in their, in their teams?

652
00:30:35.875 --> 00:30:40.615
Uh, in my mind, there has to be a sense of, uh, discipline

653
00:30:40.635 --> 00:30:41.815
or rigor in

654
00:30:41.875 --> 00:30:44.415
how we actually engineer the highest possible value

655
00:30:44.415 --> 00:30:45.805
outcome, right?

656
00:30:45.805 --> 00:30:48.325
So there have been techniques that have been around for, uh,

657
00:30:48.325 --> 00:30:50.565
30 plus years to do exactly that,

658
00:30:50.825 --> 00:30:52.885
and they've never made it into a pinback guide until now.

659
00:30:53.475 --> 00:30:56.755
Okay. So we, we won't worry with all the details there,

660
00:30:57.175 --> 00:30:59.835
but suffice to say something simple like, well,

661
00:30:59.975 --> 00:31:02.915
if I go over budget to accelerate the schedule by a month,

662
00:31:03.165 --> 00:31:04.875
might that actually be a better ROI?

663
00:31:05.985 --> 00:31:07.135
Right? And again, uh,

664
00:31:07.165 --> 00:31:09.015
classically trained PMs were trained

665
00:31:09.075 --> 00:31:10.175
not to even ask that question.

666
00:31:10.435 --> 00:31:12.895
How dare you suggest we might, that it might be a good idea

667
00:31:12.895 --> 00:31:14.415
to go over budget, right?

668
00:31:15.725 --> 00:31:17.725
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

669
00:31:17.865 --> 00:31:19.405
Uh, and,

670
00:31:19.545 --> 00:31:24.165
and, um, I can't quite, uh, Kang, uh, just, just said,

671
00:31:24.385 --> 00:31:26.605
so it's, it's about realizing benefits, right?

672
00:31:27.065 --> 00:31:28.365
And, and I'd say it's more than that.

673
00:31:28.365 --> 00:31:29.765
It's about maximizing benefits,

674
00:31:31.365 --> 00:31:32.365
Right? Right.

675
00:31:32.365 --> 00:31:33.235
Because not every,

676
00:31:33.365 --> 00:31:34.795
since all projects are investments,

677
00:31:35.095 --> 00:31:36.995
not every investment pays off the way you imagine

678
00:31:37.015 --> 00:31:38.075
it should or could.

679
00:31:38.425 --> 00:31:41.875
Yeah. Right? So from a portfolio point of view, uh,

680
00:31:42.305 --> 00:31:44.635
some will fall short of their benefits, right?

681
00:31:44.855 --> 00:31:47.555
For, for reasons that might be no fault of your own

682
00:31:47.615 --> 00:31:48.635
or of the organizations.

683
00:31:48.905 --> 00:31:51.075
It's just that's what happens in the world and in life.

684
00:31:51.845 --> 00:31:54.935
Therefore, we better have other project investments

685
00:31:55.285 --> 00:31:58.575
that far exceed the target benefits, right?

686
00:31:58.715 --> 00:32:01.295
So we're always looking like any sane

687
00:32:01.355 --> 00:32:04.815
or rational investor, uh, to balance risk across,

688
00:32:04.815 --> 00:32:05.815
across a portfolio,

689
00:32:06.195 --> 00:32:08.375
and to maximize the ROI of that portfolio portfolio,

690
00:32:08.485 --> 00:32:12.975
even if you measure, uh, the return in a non-financial way.

691
00:32:14.535 --> 00:32:18.175
Excellent. So, uh, uh, I wanna add, um, two follow up, um,

692
00:32:18.655 --> 00:32:22.775
comments, uh, on this, uh, the

693
00:32:23.325 --> 00:32:25.815
Mike mentioned the triple constraint, uh,

694
00:32:25.825 --> 00:32:26.855
scope schedule, cost.

695
00:32:27.395 --> 00:32:29.415
And that's how, that's like so deeply

696
00:32:29.935 --> 00:32:31.455
embedded in our tradition

697
00:32:32.355 --> 00:32:34.135
as a community and as a profession.

698
00:32:34.475 --> 00:32:37.695
And the concept of a triple constraint has been obsolete

699
00:32:37.715 --> 00:32:38.855
for the last 16 years.

700
00:32:40.275 --> 00:32:43.095
And the 2009 fourth edition of the PMBOK Guide,

701
00:32:43.115 --> 00:32:46.815
we introduced multiple constraints, including risk, quality,

702
00:32:46.945 --> 00:32:50.935
compliance, uh, that, uh, where there's the, um,

703
00:32:50.935 --> 00:32:53.575
there's no diagram anymore of the iron triangle.

704
00:32:54.395 --> 00:32:58.375
And, and so for the last 16 years, the idea has been that,

705
00:32:58.375 --> 00:33:01.015
that there are multiple expectations around a project.

706
00:33:01.755 --> 00:33:04.815
And, and then the second point around that we illustrated

707
00:33:05.905 --> 00:33:10.145
profoundly, the ultimate example is the Sydney Opera House.

708
00:33:10.845 --> 00:33:12.025
So if you haven't read the history

709
00:33:12.025 --> 00:33:15.345
of the Sydney Opera House, it is one of the worst projects

710
00:33:15.965 --> 00:33:17.145
of all time.

711
00:33:18.205 --> 00:33:22.345
The architect won a Nobel Prize for the design of,

712
00:33:22.845 --> 00:33:26.545
of the building, and then during its construction,

713
00:33:26.545 --> 00:33:30.545
there was a riot by the workers who, who took over

714
00:33:31.085 --> 00:33:33.425
the construction site and held it hostage.

715
00:33:34.565 --> 00:33:39.425
The, um, the architect was fired by a new parliament member,

716
00:33:39.525 --> 00:33:40.985
uh, an MP who wanted

717
00:33:40.985 --> 00:33:42.825
to make a statement about how bad the project is.

718
00:33:42.845 --> 00:33:46.625
It was 10 x over budget, it was, uh, like

719
00:33:47.225 --> 00:33:49.065
17 x uh, over schedule.

720
00:33:50.125 --> 00:33:51.225
And it is, Harold is one

721
00:33:51.225 --> 00:33:52.785
of the greatest achievements of humankind.

722
00:33:54.045 --> 00:33:55.575
It's a UNESCO heritage site.

723
00:33:55.715 --> 00:34:00.295
It, it, so sometimes the value far

724
00:34:00.805 --> 00:34:03.695
exceeds the constraints that we have been given,

725
00:34:03.835 --> 00:34:06.495
and it's our jobs as leaders to,

726
00:34:06.635 --> 00:34:09.935
to make the point is this an existential project in Boston,

727
00:34:10.155 --> 00:34:13.015
ma in, uh, in Bo in the city of Boston, the United States,

728
00:34:13.595 --> 00:34:18.535
the Big Dig was one of the most infamous projects, dude,

729
00:34:19.135 --> 00:34:21.015
I lived through that thing. Oh my God.

730
00:34:21.995 --> 00:34:24.855
And the idea was let's take this large, uh,

731
00:34:25.085 --> 00:34:29.415
flyover freeway and put it underground in tunnels

732
00:34:30.115 --> 00:34:32.575
so that all the vehicles now could go in tunnels,

733
00:34:32.575 --> 00:34:33.935
and then we would free up the skyline.

734
00:34:33.935 --> 00:34:37.735
And, and, and it just, um, people died

735
00:34:38.035 --> 00:34:40.055
during construction of this project,

736
00:34:41.155 --> 00:34:45.895
and it still kept going despite being way too expensive and,

737
00:34:45.995 --> 00:34:47.695
and, and having casualty

738
00:34:47.695 --> 00:34:52.295
because it was an existential project for the very identity

739
00:34:52.435 --> 00:34:53.855
of the entire city.

740
00:34:54.715 --> 00:34:59.215
And, um, a, a major metropolitan, say, one of the, one

741
00:34:59.215 --> 00:35:00.615
of the most populous cities in the world.

742
00:35:00.835 --> 00:35:05.335
So sometimes, um, sometimes, uh, it,

743
00:35:05.335 --> 00:35:08.975
it's our job to zoom out to the bigger story.

744
00:35:09.165 --> 00:35:11.095
What is the bigger story of your project?

745
00:35:11.275 --> 00:35:12.775
And this is a new expectation

746
00:35:13.125 --> 00:35:15.895
that is becoming increasingly commonplace in every industry,

747
00:35:16.515 --> 00:35:18.175
uh, on project professionals.

748
00:35:19.635 --> 00:35:21.455
Now, I would add, Jesse, from a stakeholder's point

749
00:35:21.455 --> 00:35:22.535
of view, it's not new.

750
00:35:22.535 --> 00:35:23.895
They've always demanded that from us.

751
00:35:23.955 --> 00:35:25.175
We just never gave it to 'em.

752
00:35:25.965 --> 00:35:27.215
Yeah, A hundred percent. At

753
00:35:27.215 --> 00:35:28.215
Least not as an industry.

754
00:35:28.245 --> 00:35:31.975
Some, some, uh, rare exceptions, intuitively. Got it. Great.

755
00:35:32.575 --> 00:35:33.695
A hundred percent. Yeah.

756
00:35:33.885 --> 00:35:36.255
It's, it's, it's always been about, uh, I mean, the number

757
00:35:36.255 --> 00:35:38.605
of people over the last, on various LinkedIn posts

758
00:35:38.985 --> 00:35:41.925
who say things like, oh, this new thing about value, right?

759
00:35:41.985 --> 00:35:45.645
No, it's not new. It's always been about delivering value.

760
00:35:46.625 --> 00:35:49.045
Uh, we, we, uh, as a community,

761
00:35:49.785 --> 00:35:52.245
I'm not sure we focused on the right things in the past,

762
00:35:52.265 --> 00:35:53.445
always, not always,

763
00:35:54.065 --> 00:35:56.925
but having said that, everybody goes on a journey, right?

764
00:35:56.925 --> 00:35:58.005
You start from where you are.

765
00:35:58.025 --> 00:35:59.885
And in the early days of project management,

766
00:36:00.425 --> 00:36:02.525
the basics was just getting any kind

767
00:36:02.525 --> 00:36:04.125
of control over projects, right?

768
00:36:04.145 --> 00:36:05.965
So that, that's okay, that's good to start there.

769
00:36:06.625 --> 00:36:09.005
But it was, you know, you wanted that control so

770
00:36:09.005 --> 00:36:11.845
that you could deliver the value, um, which brings,

771
00:36:11.855 --> 00:36:14.045
which brings us, well, it brings us to that,

772
00:36:14.065 --> 00:36:15.125
to the value discussion.

773
00:36:15.125 --> 00:36:16.685
So, so again, those of you know, me know,

774
00:36:16.685 --> 00:36:19.045
I'm a little bit kind of duck duck crazy.

775
00:36:19.075 --> 00:36:22.365
This particular duck, by the way, sits on my shelf waiting

776
00:36:22.425 --> 00:36:23.925
for the next conference I go to.

777
00:36:24.115 --> 00:36:28.525
Well, Lanka, the, the, um, chief of staff for the PMI,

778
00:36:28.795 --> 00:36:29.885
this is Lanka's Duck.

779
00:36:30.145 --> 00:36:31.485
So Lanka, if you're listening,

780
00:36:31.675 --> 00:36:32.965
this is the one I told you about.

781
00:36:32.965 --> 00:36:34.445
This is on my shelf waiting for you.

782
00:36:35.025 --> 00:36:37.125
Um, so the idea of the ducks is that, you know,

783
00:36:37.125 --> 00:36:39.405
your projects are like ducks, right?

784
00:36:39.835 --> 00:36:42.285
Your stakeholders, your executives really

785
00:36:42.285 --> 00:36:43.325
don't care about your project.

786
00:36:43.915 --> 00:36:45.365
They don't care about your Gantt chart.

787
00:36:45.365 --> 00:36:47.085
They don't care about your own value report.

788
00:36:47.085 --> 00:36:48.965
They don't care about any of that waterfall.

789
00:36:49.015 --> 00:36:52.485
Agile don't care. And they don't care if you have a boy

790
00:36:52.485 --> 00:36:53.525
duck or a girl duck.

791
00:36:53.525 --> 00:36:58.125
They just want eggs. They want the value of projects.

792
00:36:58.185 --> 00:37:01.045
So, so let's, let's stay with value for a little while

793
00:37:01.305 --> 00:37:04.365
and, um, uh, Gabrielle,

794
00:37:04.375 --> 00:37:05.565
we've not been to you for a little while.

795
00:37:05.865 --> 00:37:08.805
Um, so, so Gabrielle, te tell us what some

796
00:37:08.805 --> 00:37:13.605
of the big differences are in pmbok, uh, PMBOK eight,

797
00:37:13.785 --> 00:37:14.885
around value and

798
00:37:14.885 --> 00:37:16.725
how we're gonna protect and deliver that value.

799
00:37:17.705 --> 00:37:20.565
And, uh, and, and again, let's, you know,

800
00:37:20.635 --> 00:37:22.325
this is the first PMBOK guide.

801
00:37:22.405 --> 00:37:24.805
I think that that has a, a section on PMOs.

802
00:37:25.105 --> 00:37:27.805
So again, with, with a, with a, with a focus on

803
00:37:28.235 --> 00:37:30.565
what do the PMOs on this call need to be doing

804
00:37:31.185 --> 00:37:32.205
to protect that value?

805
00:37:32.505 --> 00:37:33.725
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

806
00:37:33.725 --> 00:37:37.965
So basically, uh, as PMOs, as PMO leaders, what we, uh,

807
00:37:37.965 --> 00:37:40.245
especially within the, the companies that are

808
00:37:40.765 --> 00:37:43.525
focusing on construction, industrial projects, usually the,

809
00:37:43.825 --> 00:37:45.685
uh, list of the projects

810
00:37:45.825 --> 00:37:49.165
or initiatives within the, uh, portfolio are related

811
00:37:49.225 --> 00:37:52.445
to CapEx investments, capital expend expenditures.

812
00:37:52.785 --> 00:37:56.765
But what we did with this change of, uh, definition, also

813
00:37:56.795 --> 00:37:59.885
with the appendix of PMO, we focus on the value

814
00:37:59.945 --> 00:38:02.245
and what it means that the projects

815
00:38:02.245 --> 00:38:06.485
that might not be traditional CapEx projects should also,

816
00:38:06.825 --> 00:38:10.725
or maybe involved within the portfolio if it brings value.

817
00:38:10.985 --> 00:38:13.285
For instance, I had like several, uh,

818
00:38:13.285 --> 00:38:16.125
within different companies, uh, I had issues where

819
00:38:16.125 --> 00:38:17.565
to put this kind of projects

820
00:38:17.565 --> 00:38:20.845
where we are doing like internal changes like, uh,

821
00:38:21.655 --> 00:38:25.325
where we have, like, for instance, um, different ways

822
00:38:25.385 --> 00:38:28.965
of working for supply chain, uh, operations,

823
00:38:29.255 --> 00:38:32.605
where when it comes to people, you know, like fts

824
00:38:32.605 --> 00:38:34.245
and things, I, I, I couldn't put

825
00:38:34.245 --> 00:38:35.845
that project within my portfolio

826
00:38:35.915 --> 00:38:40.085
because it wouldn't, uh, uh, stand the, the classical,

827
00:38:40.145 --> 00:38:43.165
you know, triple constrain, uh, things because,

828
00:38:43.305 --> 00:38:44.525
but it was still change

829
00:38:44.745 --> 00:38:46.765
and a huge change within the organization.

830
00:38:47.145 --> 00:38:50.245
And what we focus now is, uh, that different kind

831
00:38:50.245 --> 00:38:52.565
of projects, initiatives could be involved

832
00:38:52.565 --> 00:38:53.605
within the portfolio.

833
00:38:54.065 --> 00:38:57.565
And also PMO is no longer, uh, folks, uh,

834
00:38:57.675 --> 00:39:00.325
that are just tracking the progress, you know,

835
00:39:00.325 --> 00:39:04.125
doing the reports or establishing some policies basically.

836
00:39:04.225 --> 00:39:09.205
Now, PMO means that you are, uh, related to value gatekeeper

837
00:39:09.225 --> 00:39:11.245
of the value, if I can call that.

838
00:39:11.945 --> 00:39:16.245
And also that the PMO is, uh, no longer focusing,

839
00:39:16.585 --> 00:39:19.965
you know, uh, about being only assistant or like,

840
00:39:20.105 --> 00:39:21.525
or directive PMO.

841
00:39:21.705 --> 00:39:26.075
Uh, with the, um, um, uh, this new addition,

842
00:39:26.345 --> 00:39:29.475
what we also mentioned, uh, not trying to be too

843
00:39:30.035 --> 00:39:32.915
prescriptive that PMO could have different settings,

844
00:39:33.135 --> 00:39:36.155
and it should be, uh, related to

845
00:39:36.265 --> 00:39:38.155
what organization really needs

846
00:39:38.295 --> 00:39:39.995
to tailor the PMO to the needs.

847
00:39:40.255 --> 00:39:42.315
So basically, the client is in the center,

848
00:39:42.735 --> 00:39:46.115
and if your client is saying that you as a PMO leader,

849
00:39:46.375 --> 00:39:50.755
you need to focus on IT tools to automate, you know, the,

850
00:39:50.815 --> 00:39:54.155
the reports automate decision making to have like da,

851
00:39:54.225 --> 00:39:55.715
data-driven decision making.

852
00:39:56.055 --> 00:39:59.115
So as a PMO, you should apply to this kind

853
00:39:59.115 --> 00:40:00.475
of client requirements.

854
00:40:00.895 --> 00:40:03.035
So I think this is also a huge change.

855
00:40:03.215 --> 00:40:05.955
And what I really liked with this, uh, PMO eight edition

856
00:40:06.025 --> 00:40:10.955
that we worked quite in line with, uh, PMO guide folks,

857
00:40:11.375 --> 00:40:13.635
uh, that were establishing that guide,

858
00:40:13.735 --> 00:40:15.795
we didn't saw them or hear them.

859
00:40:16.155 --> 00:40:18.955
I still don't know who are like, uh, actual, uh,

860
00:40:19.095 --> 00:40:21.755
actual people, you know, I haven't seen them face to face.

861
00:40:22.095 --> 00:40:25.355
Uh, but we try to be, uh, quite open

862
00:40:25.425 --> 00:40:28.875
because we have like separate document that is like, really

863
00:40:29.385 --> 00:40:33.515
well made and like really has like great, uh, examples

864
00:40:33.535 --> 00:40:35.235
and suggestions for PMOs.

865
00:40:35.535 --> 00:40:39.635
And we didn't want to be like so specific within our guide,

866
00:40:39.635 --> 00:40:42.235
because not every organization might have a PMO.

867
00:40:42.295 --> 00:40:45.835
It might be called like value deliver office

868
00:40:46.055 --> 00:40:48.395
or transformation office or whatever.

869
00:40:48.495 --> 00:40:51.195
But, uh, the emphasis is on value,

870
00:40:51.195 --> 00:40:52.555
doesn't matter how you call it.

871
00:40:52.575 --> 00:40:55.035
You can call it XMO or, or whatever.

872
00:40:55.135 --> 00:40:56.955
So I think that that's also really important.

873
00:40:57.135 --> 00:40:59.195
Not the title, but the meaning behind.

874
00:40:59.615 --> 00:41:03.395
And that's the rule is more strategy aligned

875
00:41:03.775 --> 00:41:05.795
as it never has been,

876
00:41:05.795 --> 00:41:10.155
because basically, uh, we are the key gatekeepers that

877
00:41:10.775 --> 00:41:13.115
all the projects should be aligned to the strategy.

878
00:41:13.295 --> 00:41:14.355
And I think that's important.

879
00:41:14.355 --> 00:41:16.555
And this is why we make the reports we,

880
00:41:17.095 --> 00:41:18.475
and different processes,

881
00:41:18.695 --> 00:41:21.675
or do the co compliance checks or audit checks

882
00:41:21.935 --> 00:41:23.555
And, and sort of building on that, right?

883
00:41:23.695 --> 00:41:27.235
If, if, if the, if the project is there to

884
00:41:28.155 --> 00:41:31.555
maximize the value, then the portfolio that is there

885
00:41:31.975 --> 00:41:35.175
to maximize the return across the portfolio, right?

886
00:41:35.195 --> 00:41:36.735
The value across the portfolio.

887
00:41:37.595 --> 00:41:38.695
And so that means

888
00:41:38.695 --> 00:41:42.315
that suddenly portfolio management is integral to,

889
00:41:43.545 --> 00:41:45.645
uh, project management, right?

890
00:41:45.875 --> 00:41:47.325
It's not some optional thing.

891
00:41:47.855 --> 00:41:51.445
Doing portfolio management is an, is kind of the first step.

892
00:41:51.515 --> 00:41:52.685
It's the precursor.

893
00:41:52.715 --> 00:41:54.685
It's the, it's the stage that we set

894
00:41:54.685 --> 00:41:57.615
before the players walk onto the stage, right?

895
00:41:58.115 --> 00:41:59.375
How, how lyrical is that?

896
00:41:59.635 --> 00:42:02.295
And so that leads nicely into will, uh, who will,

897
00:42:02.415 --> 00:42:04.615
I think you owe me an email, actually, I've, uh,

898
00:42:04.635 --> 00:42:05.575
pinged you a bunch of times,

899
00:42:05.835 --> 00:42:07.015
but anyway, sorry, set that aside.

900
00:42:07.015 --> 00:42:10.695
Will, hi, welcome. Um, will got a couple

901
00:42:10.775 --> 00:42:11.855
of questions here, right?

902
00:42:11.955 --> 00:42:13.135
Uh, and I think it's really,

903
00:42:13.165 --> 00:42:14.895
they're both really, really interesting.

904
00:42:15.225 --> 00:42:18.855
First of all, um, he is saying, uh, how do you come up

905
00:42:18.855 --> 00:42:20.535
with a common currency for value?

906
00:42:21.595 --> 00:42:24.415
And, uh, you know, is, should it be, you know,

907
00:42:24.415 --> 00:42:25.935
financial ROI or something like that?

908
00:42:26.915 --> 00:42:30.415
Um, and then he is got a follow on question, which is

909
00:42:30.415 --> 00:42:32.215
around, um, how do you,

910
00:42:32.475 --> 00:42:35.495
how do you measure this success thing, this value thing

911
00:42:36.075 --> 00:42:39.055
in the context of value streams, right?

912
00:42:39.115 --> 00:42:41.895
So, so continuous investment, uh, value streams

913
00:42:41.895 --> 00:42:42.975
or product or something like that.

914
00:42:43.195 --> 00:42:44.935
So, Mike, can you take the first one of those?

915
00:42:44.955 --> 00:42:46.415
How do you come up with that common?

916
00:42:46.835 --> 00:42:48.295
How would you recommend people come up with

917
00:42:48.295 --> 00:42:50.095
that current common currency for measuring

918
00:42:50.095 --> 00:42:53.575
and determining value, contribution to strategy?

919
00:42:54.215 --> 00:42:56.575
A perfect commercial for transparent choice, right?

920
00:42:56.955 --> 00:42:59.695
So, um, one of the most challenging things

921
00:42:59.695 --> 00:43:03.015
to do in selecting the highest, uh, you know,

922
00:43:03.015 --> 00:43:06.735
the highest ROI projects is, you know, we have something

923
00:43:06.735 --> 00:43:07.855
that might generate lots of profit

924
00:43:07.955 --> 00:43:08.775
and something that might

925
00:43:08.775 --> 00:43:10.255
improve employee morale and welfare.

926
00:43:11.595 --> 00:43:13.975
Um, now we know from lots of studies

927
00:43:14.085 --> 00:43:15.655
that high employee morale

928
00:43:15.655 --> 00:43:18.615
and welfare does tend to lead to higher profits,

929
00:43:19.575 --> 00:43:21.635
but what's the, what's the exact connection

930
00:43:21.635 --> 00:43:22.955
and how much additional profit?

931
00:43:23.065 --> 00:43:25.145
Well, who's to say, um,

932
00:43:25.845 --> 00:43:26.865
and who's to say what

933
00:43:26.865 --> 00:43:29.465
that we'll get the industry average in our context, right?

934
00:43:30.045 --> 00:43:32.705
So if both of those projects cost the same thing,

935
00:43:32.805 --> 00:43:34.025
how do we choose between the two?

936
00:43:34.045 --> 00:43:35.505
If we must choose just the one?

937
00:43:36.415 --> 00:43:40.145
Well, um, transparent choice actually, uh, exists to solve

938
00:43:40.145 --> 00:43:42.185
that, to, to answer that question, right?

939
00:43:42.185 --> 00:43:43.225
To compare the apples

940
00:43:43.225 --> 00:43:45.785
and oranges, especially if I prefer bananas

941
00:43:45.925 --> 00:43:47.305
or something else, right?

942
00:43:48.165 --> 00:43:51.265
Um, so that way there's some way to harmonize the sense

943
00:43:51.265 --> 00:43:54.065
of value according to the subjective opinions

944
00:43:54.485 --> 00:43:56.025
of the leaders of the organization.

945
00:43:56.675 --> 00:43:58.935
Uh, note I said, subjective opinions, which

946
00:43:59.475 --> 00:44:03.055
for the financial analysts among you, um, uh,

947
00:44:03.055 --> 00:44:05.615
or people that really love numbers, that might be,

948
00:44:05.725 --> 00:44:07.415
that might sound wrong,

949
00:44:08.335 --> 00:44:09.955
but the reality is, uh,

950
00:44:10.095 --> 00:44:12.035
per value is in the eye of the beholder.

951
00:44:13.015 --> 00:44:15.995
And yes, you can measure things like profit and all of that,

952
00:44:16.615 --> 00:44:19.075
but, uh, but before we actually achieve the profit

953
00:44:19.215 --> 00:44:21.755
or the benefit of the employee morale and welfare boost

954
00:44:21.935 --> 00:44:25.395
or whatever, we have to actually, uh, assess how much of

955
00:44:25.395 --> 00:44:26.515
that we think we might get.

956
00:44:26.815 --> 00:44:29.155
And that's inherently subjective, right?

957
00:44:29.155 --> 00:44:33.845
It comes from people's, uh, intuition and experience, right?

958
00:44:34.345 --> 00:44:35.645
And so we want to harvest

959
00:44:35.905 --> 00:44:38.925
and harness that collective wisdom of, uh,

960
00:44:38.925 --> 00:44:40.845
of the leadership team that we've asked to,

961
00:44:40.905 --> 00:44:42.045
to address this question.

962
00:44:42.625 --> 00:44:45.645
And, uh, the software transparent choice does, uh,

963
00:44:45.745 --> 00:44:47.045
is designed to do exactly that.

964
00:44:47.635 --> 00:44:49.765
I'll add a second thing that is not a commercial

965
00:44:49.825 --> 00:44:52.845
for transparent choice, and it's not in the PMBOK guide,

966
00:44:53.065 --> 00:44:54.885
but that's only because, uh,

967
00:44:55.305 --> 00:44:56.965
we would've needed a few hundred more pages,

968
00:44:57.215 --> 00:44:58.605
maybe a few thousand more pages,

969
00:44:59.225 --> 00:45:00.845
and we didn't wanna get overly prescriptive.

970
00:45:01.425 --> 00:45:04.405
And that is, uh, take Jesse's example of, um,

971
00:45:04.465 --> 00:45:05.565
the Sydney Opera House.

972
00:45:07.355 --> 00:45:11.415
Uh, two things. One, there probably is a minimum threshold

973
00:45:11.415 --> 00:45:12.455
of value we wanna see.

974
00:45:13.825 --> 00:45:17.205
And if the budget went, uh, a hundred times over

975
00:45:17.345 --> 00:45:18.845
and the schedule took a hundred years,

976
00:45:19.465 --> 00:45:21.365
we probably would fall below that threshold,

977
00:45:21.715 --> 00:45:23.165
even though it is a UNESCO site

978
00:45:23.185 --> 00:45:24.605
and has all this enormous value

979
00:45:24.625 --> 00:45:26.725
and probably tourism and who knows what else.

980
00:45:27.655 --> 00:45:32.425
Um, and so I find that putting the target value that we hope

981
00:45:32.425 --> 00:45:35.825
to achieve, and the minimum below which we refuse to accept

982
00:45:36.695 --> 00:45:40.155
can be very helpful when we're trying to be clear about,

983
00:45:40.295 --> 00:45:41.595
yes, hey, here's what we're after.

984
00:45:42.375 --> 00:45:44.395
And the sky, not even the sky's the limit,

985
00:45:44.895 --> 00:45:46.035
but if it ever falls

986
00:45:46.035 --> 00:45:47.955
below this threshold, we should kill it.

987
00:45:49.915 --> 00:45:51.855
Uh, I, I wanna build on that Mike, uh,

988
00:45:51.855 --> 00:45:56.595
because there's so, uh,

989
00:45:57.735 --> 00:46:01.155
hi, uh, I'm Jesse, I'm an agile practitioner.

990
00:46:01.815 --> 00:46:05.715
And, and one of, one of the, one of the critiques that, uh,

991
00:46:05.715 --> 00:46:08.915
that we heard about this project was, oh my goodness,

992
00:46:09.615 --> 00:46:12.915
an agile list is going to be the chair of the PMBOK guide.

993
00:46:13.325 --> 00:46:15.595
We're all going to hell, lions

994
00:46:15.595 --> 00:46:19.835
and tigers, uh, like, um, lions and sheep are friends.

995
00:46:20.575 --> 00:46:23.315
Uh, up is down, black is white. It makes no sense.

996
00:46:24.425 --> 00:46:28.805
And so, one of, one of the, I think one of the benefit

997
00:46:29.025 --> 00:46:30.685
or the, the, the benefits

998
00:46:30.685 --> 00:46:32.845
or the gifts that the Agile movement has given

999
00:46:32.905 --> 00:46:37.685
to the project management community is it has awoken us

1000
00:46:37.905 --> 00:46:40.965
to the market expectation around this conversation.

1001
00:46:41.705 --> 00:46:45.565
We need to focus on the value for investment.

1002
00:46:46.465 --> 00:46:49.005
Uh, we intentionally deferred the conversation

1003
00:46:49.005 --> 00:46:51.245
of the PMBOK guide, the difference between outcome,

1004
00:46:51.355 --> 00:46:52.645
benefit, value.

1005
00:46:53.505 --> 00:46:57.285
Um, there is a benefits realization, uh, practice guide

1006
00:46:57.285 --> 00:46:59.125
that PMI publishes for those of you

1007
00:46:59.125 --> 00:47:01.525
who are really interested in that level of nuance

1008
00:47:02.385 --> 00:47:04.205
and that qualitative subjective

1009
00:47:04.205 --> 00:47:05.445
conversation that you're having, Mike.

1010
00:47:06.025 --> 00:47:09.925
But my critique of my own Agile community is that

1011
00:47:11.365 --> 00:47:14.135
some we need to have measures.

1012
00:47:14.135 --> 00:47:16.215
And the agile community, as good as they've done

1013
00:47:16.395 --> 00:47:18.615
for highlighting the need for a value conversation,

1014
00:47:18.615 --> 00:47:22.695
have failed miserably to provide any concrete measures

1015
00:47:22.695 --> 00:47:25.735
or examples of how to measure value.

1016
00:47:26.155 --> 00:47:27.775
And so, Mike offered a really good

1017
00:47:27.775 --> 00:47:29.245
example, employee morale and welfare.

1018
00:47:30.085 --> 00:47:33.205
Employee net promoter score is a really good example.

1019
00:47:33.205 --> 00:47:35.965
Another one might be, uh, a lagging indicator might be

1020
00:47:35.965 --> 00:47:38.725
around retention, uh, and attrition.

1021
00:47:39.055 --> 00:47:40.925
There are metrics that are specific

1022
00:47:41.065 --> 00:47:43.445
to three different categories from my,

1023
00:47:43.445 --> 00:47:44.765
from my, from where I sit.

1024
00:47:44.865 --> 00:47:47.405
The the first one that's obvious is the money category.

1025
00:47:47.945 --> 00:47:50.485
Um, ROI net pres net present value.

1026
00:47:51.145 --> 00:47:54.165
Uh, if you're in, in at a project that's looking

1027
00:47:54.225 --> 00:47:56.805
to cut costs, and then the amount of money you have

1028
00:47:56.805 --> 00:47:58.925
to invest to cut those costs is very straightforward.

1029
00:47:58.985 --> 00:48:00.765
But to your point, sometimes it's a

1030
00:48:00.765 --> 00:48:02.325
mission that we're serving.

1031
00:48:02.905 --> 00:48:06.765
And the mission is around how many metric tons

1032
00:48:06.765 --> 00:48:08.805
of carbon are we gonna remove out of the air

1033
00:48:08.915 --> 00:48:12.845
with this new product that, with this new, um, filter

1034
00:48:13.155 --> 00:48:14.365
that we're going to install.

1035
00:48:14.985 --> 00:48:16.765
Uh, another one, uh, might be,

1036
00:48:16.865 --> 00:48:18.845
how many homeless people are we going to feed

1037
00:48:19.355 --> 00:48:20.645
with this new government policy?

1038
00:48:21.545 --> 00:48:23.885
And to your point, Mike, what is the minimum

1039
00:48:24.355 --> 00:48:27.645
that we're going to target, uh, the minimum that we're going

1040
00:48:27.645 --> 00:48:30.045
to accept in that mission metric of value

1041
00:48:30.105 --> 00:48:32.125
and impact versus the target?

1042
00:48:32.545 --> 00:48:34.725
And then the third category is, I think is the one

1043
00:48:34.725 --> 00:48:38.005
that's most common for, for all of us that serve in PMOs

1044
00:48:38.005 --> 00:48:39.045
and serve large organizations.

1045
00:48:39.065 --> 00:48:41.645
And it's not re we may not have a project

1046
00:48:41.645 --> 00:48:44.125
that has direct ROI, we may not have a project

1047
00:48:44.125 --> 00:48:45.565
that has direct impact on the mission.

1048
00:48:45.875 --> 00:48:47.765
Many of our projects, if not most of 'em,

1049
00:48:47.765 --> 00:48:49.525
are about the mechanics of the organization.

1050
00:48:50.145 --> 00:48:51.565
And so I would say, what are the

1051
00:48:51.915 --> 00:48:53.205
KPIs that we're going to impact?

1052
00:48:54.175 --> 00:48:57.965
Every operations team has their operational KPIs

1053
00:48:57.965 --> 00:48:59.845
that they're held accountable to by their executives.

1054
00:49:00.225 --> 00:49:04.045
So any project should, in some cases, what's the lead time

1055
00:49:04.045 --> 00:49:06.165
for that HR team to hire somebody?

1056
00:49:06.825 --> 00:49:10.845
And in some cases, what's the, uh, the cycle time, uh, for,

1057
00:49:11.945 --> 00:49:14.765
uh, that, uh, a, a product to get through the, uh,

1058
00:49:14.765 --> 00:49:16.925
the mission, uh, the, the, the factory floor?

1059
00:49:17.505 --> 00:49:21.245
So whether you have a, uh, a, a money project,

1060
00:49:21.485 --> 00:49:23.565
a mission project, or a mechanics, uh,

1061
00:49:23.585 --> 00:49:27.405
organizational mechanics, uh, project, there's some measure

1062
00:49:27.405 --> 00:49:30.365
that you can find, uh, that can make the case.

1063
00:49:30.865 --> 00:49:33.765
Now, there's no universal index on that.

1064
00:49:34.035 --> 00:49:36.485
There's still going to be that apples, oranges,

1065
00:49:36.505 --> 00:49:37.765
and bananas comparison.

1066
00:49:38.025 --> 00:49:39.965
But, uh, there are numbers that,

1067
00:49:40.035 --> 00:49:41.405
that we can bring to back. So, so,

1068
00:49:41.625 --> 00:49:43.605
So, so as Mike said, this is, this is our wheelhouse,

1069
00:49:43.605 --> 00:49:44.845
which is why I'm deliberately,

1070
00:49:45.185 --> 00:49:46.325
I'm trying not to get involved.

1071
00:49:46.525 --> 00:49:48.805
'cause if I do, this conversation will go way too long.

1072
00:49:49.305 --> 00:49:52.645
Um, but the one thing I will say is that, um, you know,

1073
00:49:52.645 --> 00:49:54.085
that definition of value is really key.

1074
00:49:54.665 --> 00:49:56.405
One of the resources in our website, Lenora,

1075
00:49:56.405 --> 00:49:59.485
if you are still on, could you go find the link to the

1076
00:50:00.165 --> 00:50:02.285
criteria ebook please, and drop it into the chat.

1077
00:50:02.985 --> 00:50:06.565
Um, so we have, we have actually a couple of eBooks.

1078
00:50:06.875 --> 00:50:08.245
There's kind of the Beginner's guide

1079
00:50:08.245 --> 00:50:12.165
and the more Advanced guide into, uh, project criteria,

1080
00:50:13.025 --> 00:50:14.725
uh, project prioritization criteria.

1081
00:50:15.065 --> 00:50:16.725
That's how we define value.

1082
00:50:16.725 --> 00:50:18.925
This is how we define the contribution to the,

1083
00:50:18.975 --> 00:50:22.365
those three buckets that, that, uh, Jesse just talked about.

1084
00:50:22.945 --> 00:50:24.725
And that ebook is completely free,

1085
00:50:24.825 --> 00:50:26.925
and it'll really walk you through the whole thing.

1086
00:50:27.010 --> 00:50:30.765
There's something like 80, 82, uh, template

1087
00:50:32.045 --> 00:50:33.205
criteria that you might use.

1088
00:50:33.615 --> 00:50:36.565
We're not saying use them, don't use all of them, please.

1089
00:50:37.225 --> 00:50:39.205
Uh, but it'll hopefully act as inspiration.

1090
00:50:39.205 --> 00:50:41.205
So if you're interested in that, go, go download the guide.

1091
00:50:41.745 --> 00:50:43.525
Lenora, if you could go find that

1092
00:50:43.525 --> 00:50:45.085
and drop it in the chat, that would be awesome.

1093
00:50:45.295 --> 00:50:47.925
Thank you very much. Um, just really quickly, I've,

1094
00:50:47.925 --> 00:50:49.565
I've got one more question to follow on.

1095
00:50:49.665 --> 00:50:52.365
Um, but before I do, people are starting

1096
00:50:52.365 --> 00:50:54.045
to drift off 'cause they've got other things to do.

1097
00:50:54.585 --> 00:50:56.525
Um, this session is being recorded,

1098
00:50:57.425 --> 00:50:59.685
and you will receive an email from, uh, one

1099
00:50:59.685 --> 00:51:03.045
of my team called pre P-R-E-E-T-I.

1100
00:51:03.665 --> 00:51:06.085
So look for an email from Pretty at Transparent Choice,

1101
00:51:06.545 --> 00:51:09.765
and she'll send across a bunch of, um, materials

1102
00:51:09.765 --> 00:51:10.845
and follow up in the recording

1103
00:51:10.845 --> 00:51:11.965
and all that kind of good stuff.

1104
00:51:12.225 --> 00:51:13.685
So there'll be an information pack coming

1105
00:51:13.685 --> 00:51:15.685
through from Pretty, so look for that.

1106
00:51:16.065 --> 00:51:18.645
Uh, if you see this crazy name, pretty, uh,

1107
00:51:18.645 --> 00:51:20.005
she's based out in, in India.

1108
00:51:20.005 --> 00:51:22.525
She's actually just, uh, last week moved back down

1109
00:51:22.525 --> 00:51:24.885
to Rabba from the Himalayas.

1110
00:51:25.465 --> 00:51:27.845
Um, uh, so she's been with us for years.

1111
00:51:27.865 --> 00:51:31.645
So if you see this crazy Indian person, it's, it's not some,

1112
00:51:31.715 --> 00:51:33.845
it's not somebody trying to steal all your pension money.

1113
00:51:34.145 --> 00:51:36.245
It is in fact, uh, one of my team.

1114
00:51:37.345 --> 00:51:40.725
Uh, so please be nice to her. She's lovely. Um, fabulous.

1115
00:51:40.785 --> 00:51:42.325
So we've been talking about value

1116
00:51:42.345 --> 00:51:43.805
and we've talked a little bit about value

1117
00:51:43.825 --> 00:51:45.285
to the business, right?

1118
00:51:45.625 --> 00:51:47.725
So, so, so that's, that's something

1119
00:51:47.725 --> 00:51:50.205
that your execs going up the chain, uh,

1120
00:51:50.205 --> 00:51:52.365
your stakeholders going up the chain care about.

1121
00:51:53.315 --> 00:51:55.645
What about the, the, the PMs?

1122
00:51:55.785 --> 00:51:58.045
So again, we're talking to PMO audience.

1123
00:51:59.025 --> 00:52:01.765
Do you have any thoughts on how

1124
00:52:01.765 --> 00:52:05.805
to engage the PM community if you are the PMO leader, how

1125
00:52:05.805 --> 00:52:10.725
to engage the PM community in, in your organization to,

1126
00:52:10.865 --> 00:52:12.325
to first of all, get them excited

1127
00:52:12.385 --> 00:52:14.325
and interested in PMBOK eight,

1128
00:52:14.505 --> 00:52:16.365
but then to actually get some juice from it, right?

1129
00:52:16.385 --> 00:52:17.565
To get some value from it?

1130
00:52:17.795 --> 00:52:19.285
Gabrielle, you're nodding along with

1131
00:52:19.285 --> 00:52:20.565
that one. Why don't you go first?

1132
00:52:21.355 --> 00:52:24.165
Yeah, so basically what I also liked about this edition

1133
00:52:24.165 --> 00:52:28.765
that we also go gone from the titles again,

1134
00:52:28.995 --> 00:52:30.765
what, what is the project manager?

1135
00:52:30.765 --> 00:52:32.445
Because within different organization

1136
00:52:32.445 --> 00:52:34.965
that their organization might have like 10 people

1137
00:52:35.145 --> 00:52:38.525
and they might not, not have like, um, the money

1138
00:52:38.705 --> 00:52:41.325
or the resources to hire like separate PMs.

1139
00:52:41.325 --> 00:52:43.565
And it might be like some, uh, person

1140
00:52:43.785 --> 00:52:45.485
who is the having different title,

1141
00:52:45.625 --> 00:52:46.925
but he's doing the function.

1142
00:52:47.185 --> 00:52:50.885
So basically within the PM block, what we changed that, uh,

1143
00:52:50.945 --> 00:52:54.405
we don't make an emphasis that there is a project manager

1144
00:52:54.705 --> 00:52:57.165
and the project team and yada yada, yada.

1145
00:52:57.265 --> 00:52:59.285
But there is a project management team

1146
00:52:59.555 --> 00:53:01.125
that could be called differently.

1147
00:53:01.505 --> 00:53:04.045
It could be called like a project leader.

1148
00:53:04.265 --> 00:53:06.045
It could be like different position.

1149
00:53:06.185 --> 00:53:10.565
It could, uh, have like some, uh, more agile, you know,

1150
00:53:10.965 --> 00:53:14.405
specific, uh, language like project owner, um,

1151
00:53:15.155 --> 00:53:16.405
different type of names.

1152
00:53:16.625 --> 00:53:18.165
And for us, it, uh, it,

1153
00:53:18.435 --> 00:53:21.165
what was most important was the competencies

1154
00:53:21.275 --> 00:53:23.925
that these people bring and responsibilities.

1155
00:53:24.425 --> 00:53:28.925
And we also talked really a lot about accountable leadership

1156
00:53:29.105 --> 00:53:31.885
and owning, you know, what you do, owning your project.

1157
00:53:32.305 --> 00:53:36.525
So I think when, uh, PMOs talk with the project managers

1158
00:53:36.665 --> 00:53:40.125
or how they're called with don't care, uh, as long

1159
00:53:40.125 --> 00:53:42.285
as the person cares about

1160
00:53:42.585 --> 00:53:45.405
and owns the project that he is doing,

1161
00:53:45.825 --> 00:53:47.845
and, um, the deliverables

1162
00:53:47.945 --> 00:53:50.725
and the results are there, I think that's fine.

1163
00:53:50.825 --> 00:53:53.885
And I think here, here we opened, uh,

1164
00:53:55.515 --> 00:53:58.605
more discussion on that topic, and it's more flexible.

1165
00:53:58.705 --> 00:54:03.485
You know, we, we are more flexible within different kind

1166
00:54:03.485 --> 00:54:04.485
of organization,

1167
00:54:04.585 --> 00:54:06.405
and we are not like, you know, uh,

1168
00:54:06.875 --> 00:54:08.685
waterfall Agile or something.

1169
00:54:08.705 --> 00:54:11.005
And what I also liked, uh, about this edition,

1170
00:54:11.065 --> 00:54:14.045
and lots of people mentioned when we had, like the survey

1171
00:54:14.185 --> 00:54:17.125
before the pm b uh, development, uh,

1172
00:54:17.125 --> 00:54:19.005
people demanded the examples.

1173
00:54:19.345 --> 00:54:21.485
We try to even put more examples,

1174
00:54:21.585 --> 00:54:23.565
but they were like taken out

1175
00:54:23.565 --> 00:54:26.725
because we didn't want to write 1000 page book.

1176
00:54:27.025 --> 00:54:28.885
Uh, but we try to, uh,

1177
00:54:28.975 --> 00:54:32.445
after each bigger section to, uh,

1178
00:54:32.445 --> 00:54:36.125
provide some ex examples for the people, for, for the folks

1179
00:54:36.125 --> 00:54:39.725
that work with real projects, not the theoretical projects,

1180
00:54:39.905 --> 00:54:42.085
to understand what we really wanted to say.

1181
00:54:42.705 --> 00:54:46.005
So I think this is also useful for like, folks

1182
00:54:46.005 --> 00:54:48.685
that are doing the projects, not focusing on, you know,

1183
00:54:48.685 --> 00:54:50.685
like strategic alignment and things like that.

1184
00:54:51.625 --> 00:54:52.715
Awesome. And,

1185
00:54:52.775 --> 00:54:57.165
and in case you haven't checked out Gabriela's profile,

1186
00:54:57.875 --> 00:55:01.325
that is coming from the project of the Year

1187
00:55:01.895 --> 00:55:03.665
award winner, right?

1188
00:55:04.085 --> 00:55:05.265
So, you know, we should,

1189
00:55:05.595 --> 00:55:07.305
Sorry, Stuart to interrupt you.

1190
00:55:07.385 --> 00:55:08.865
I, I, I'm, I wasn't the winner.

1191
00:55:09.105 --> 00:55:11.985
I, I worked in the company in the previous years, so, sorry,

1192
00:55:12.065 --> 00:55:14.465
I, I don't want to take the, you know, the pride.

1193
00:55:15.725 --> 00:55:17.065
I'm, I'm, I'm gonna go with Mike

1194
00:55:17.085 --> 00:55:18.425
and we'll just kind of bow down

1195
00:55:18.445 --> 00:55:21.185
and say we are not worthy to be on a, on a call, Gabriel.

1196
00:55:21.245 --> 00:55:24.185
Oh, come on. So look, I, I, I, we're,

1197
00:55:24.185 --> 00:55:25.265
we're at the top of the hour.

1198
00:55:25.285 --> 00:55:27.145
So Jesse, I'm gonna give you the final word,

1199
00:55:27.255 --> 00:55:28.705
just any final thoughts

1200
00:55:28.705 --> 00:55:29.985
that you'd like to share with everybody.

1201
00:55:30.565 --> 00:55:34.465
Um, and then I have one quick advert, two quick adverts

1202
00:55:34.465 --> 00:55:35.865
before everybody disappears,

1203
00:55:36.235 --> 00:55:38.025
which I hope you're gonna be very interested in.

1204
00:55:38.045 --> 00:55:39.785
Not not necessarily transparent choice stuff,

1205
00:55:39.785 --> 00:55:41.825
but other stuff around PMO I wanna build.

1206
00:55:41.825 --> 00:55:43.545
So, one quick thought, Jesse, and then I'll,

1207
00:55:44.375 --> 00:55:48.025
Yeah, I, I wanna build on, on, on Gabrieli's, uh, call

1208
00:55:48.025 --> 00:55:49.585
to action for you as PMO leaders.

1209
00:55:50.365 --> 00:55:53.105
Uh, the PMBOK is an important document

1210
00:55:53.725 --> 00:55:56.985
and many of your PMs may never have actually been exposed

1211
00:55:56.985 --> 00:56:01.465
to it, and now is a great time to, uh, to introduce them

1212
00:56:01.525 --> 00:56:03.225
to both the rich heritage

1213
00:56:03.495 --> 00:56:06.705
that we've had over the last 40 years with the PMBOK guy

1214
00:56:06.705 --> 00:56:08.545
that's coming up on his 40th anniversary.

1215
00:56:09.605 --> 00:56:14.185
Uh, and also, uh, introducing more modern,

1216
00:56:14.265 --> 00:56:16.945
contemporary, immediate marketplace

1217
00:56:17.265 --> 00:56:18.305
guidance and expectations.

1218
00:56:18.765 --> 00:56:21.745
It is not a cookbook, it is not a how to guide.

1219
00:56:22.365 --> 00:56:26.605
It is a guide. It, it, it's, it's a guide on, on, on what

1220
00:56:26.605 --> 00:56:29.845
to consider and why to consider you should be doing things.

1221
00:56:29.945 --> 00:56:33.845
So, um, that the three of us invested two years

1222
00:56:33.845 --> 00:56:35.405
of our lives, um, making sure

1223
00:56:35.405 --> 00:56:38.005
that we could have a positive impact on your PMO

1224
00:56:38.465 --> 00:56:41.165
and your staff project management staff.

1225
00:56:41.425 --> 00:56:44.205
So we encourage you to take a look at it, maybe even have a,

1226
00:56:44.325 --> 00:56:47.885
a lunch and learn or a, uh, a team conversation about it.

1227
00:56:48.425 --> 00:56:51.235
Awesome. Uh, Jen, I, I see your question there.

1228
00:56:51.415 --> 00:56:53.475
Um, you know how to reach me book time with me

1229
00:56:53.475 --> 00:56:55.755
and I'll, I'll take that one offline, uh, if you don't mind

1230
00:56:55.875 --> 00:56:57.115
'cause we're kind of at the top of the hour.

1231
00:56:57.615 --> 00:56:59.755
Um, so two very quick, um,

1232
00:57:00.135 --> 00:57:02.075
two very quick things from me before we all go.

1233
00:57:02.495 --> 00:57:05.595
Uh, first one is the link that Lenora pasted is actually,

1234
00:57:06.135 --> 00:57:08.155
um, to book time with me

1235
00:57:08.155 --> 00:57:12.875
or one of my team to, um, to basically work,

1236
00:57:12.945 --> 00:57:14.835
walk through the case for change the business case

1237
00:57:15.095 --> 00:57:16.675
for the PMO, right?

1238
00:57:16.735 --> 00:57:18.435
So PIM PMBOK Guide being really

1239
00:57:18.995 --> 00:57:20.195
released is a great opportunity

1240
00:57:20.535 --> 00:57:23.275
to engage your leadership team in, in a conversation around

1241
00:57:23.705 --> 00:57:25.715
what is the value of my PMO?

1242
00:57:25.735 --> 00:57:28.555
And at conferences, the most common question

1243
00:57:28.555 --> 00:57:31.995
that I get from people is, how do I get my execs attention?

1244
00:57:32.015 --> 00:57:33.755
Or how do I get 'em to buy into my PMO?

1245
00:57:33.825 --> 00:57:35.155
Some version of that question.

1246
00:57:35.975 --> 00:57:39.035
So if you book a lay, uh, you book a meeting with me, uh,

1247
00:57:39.205 --> 00:57:41.075
we've got this little workshop that we run through

1248
00:57:41.075 --> 00:57:43.115
with people to help tell that story.

1249
00:57:43.175 --> 00:57:46.835
And PMBOK is a golden exec, golden opportunity for you

1250
00:57:46.835 --> 00:57:48.315
to engage in that conversation.

1251
00:57:48.735 --> 00:57:49.835
So please click on that.

1252
00:57:50.215 --> 00:57:54.595
And then my second, uh, little advert is for the PMI, uh,

1253
00:57:55.015 --> 00:57:57.355
two years ago bought the PMO Global Alliance.

1254
00:57:57.935 --> 00:57:59.595
If you're not specifically a member

1255
00:57:59.595 --> 00:58:02.155
of the PMO Global Alliance, go sign up for that now.

1256
00:58:03.015 --> 00:58:05.995
And, uh, in March, towards the end of March, um,

1257
00:58:06.375 --> 00:58:10.035
the PMO Global Alliance is hosting an event in San Diego,

1258
00:58:10.685 --> 00:58:13.315
California, uh, which is the Unconference.

1259
00:58:13.975 --> 00:58:16.075
So this is, there, there, there's a little bit

1260
00:58:16.075 --> 00:58:17.755
of normal speaking and panels

1261
00:58:17.755 --> 00:58:20.995
and all that kind of good stuff, but most of the content is

1262
00:58:21.705 --> 00:58:25.715
real hands-on workshops with every, with with facilitators

1263
00:58:26.625 --> 00:58:30.955
walking rooms full of people, PMO leaders, all of them, uh,

1264
00:58:30.985 --> 00:58:32.395
through ideas like,

1265
00:58:32.895 --> 00:58:34.035
how do we actually deliver

1266
00:58:34.035 --> 00:58:35.555
successful business transformation?

1267
00:58:36.095 --> 00:58:38.355
Or how do we lead in an ESG world?

1268
00:58:38.455 --> 00:58:40.755
Or, you know, how do we make sure we

1269
00:58:40.755 --> 00:58:42.115
as a PMO are delivering value

1270
00:58:42.215 --> 00:58:43.995
to our customers, to our stakeholders?

1271
00:58:44.345 --> 00:58:46.755
That was one of the sessions I led, uh, last year,

1272
00:58:47.215 --> 00:58:48.235
uh, in Istanbul.

1273
00:58:48.735 --> 00:58:50.435
Uh, so I'm gonna be there, I'm gonna be reading,

1274
00:58:50.435 --> 00:58:52.515
leading a couple of workshops on the business,

1275
00:58:52.615 --> 00:58:54.315
in the business transformation track.

1276
00:58:54.975 --> 00:58:57.035
Um, uh, so it's gonna be a lot of fun.

1277
00:58:57.455 --> 00:59:00.435
Uh, if you can go, I would strongly recommend it.

1278
00:59:00.705 --> 00:59:02.755
It's, it's not like the Global Summit

1279
00:59:02.755 --> 00:59:04.435
where you've got 4,000 people,

1280
00:59:04.975 --> 00:59:06.715
but only a small number of 'em are PMO leaders.

1281
00:59:07.305 --> 00:59:10.755
This is all PMO leadership typically at this event.

1282
00:59:11.495 --> 00:59:15.555
And it's a golden opportunity to not just interact

1283
00:59:15.555 --> 00:59:18.035
with people, you know, self-styled thought leaders,

1284
00:59:19.135 --> 00:59:21.805
but also with, uh, your peers

1285
00:59:22.425 --> 00:59:24.525
and to, to bar get ideas

1286
00:59:24.585 --> 00:59:27.325
and inspiration from the people out there doing the

1287
00:59:27.325 --> 00:59:28.445
job with you.

1288
00:59:28.945 --> 00:59:31.685
So if you can, I would go and, uh, take a look at that.

1289
00:59:32.145 --> 00:59:36.165
Uh, if you look, uh, the PMO Global Alliance, um, uh,

1290
00:59:36.225 --> 00:59:38.645
on conference in San Diego in March,

1291
00:59:38.985 --> 00:59:40.005
uh, it's gonna be great.

1292
00:59:40.185 --> 00:59:43.925
Uh, a great event. Hope to see some of you there. Excellent.

1293
00:59:44.105 --> 00:59:47.885
Um, so I, I just, it just remains to thank you all

1294
00:59:47.885 --> 00:59:51.925
for coming, but most of all, uh, uh, Jesse, Mike

1295
00:59:51.925 --> 00:59:54.125
and Gabriela, not just for turning up today,

1296
00:59:54.465 --> 00:59:57.085
but for the effort, the massive effort you've put in over

1297
00:59:57.085 --> 00:59:59.925
the last two years to create this thing called the PIN

1298
00:59:59.925 --> 01:00:01.445
Book eight Guide.

1299
01:00:01.665 --> 01:00:04.685
So thank you guys. Really, really appreciate it.

1300
01:00:05.395 --> 01:00:06.655
Thanks very much everyone.