Speaker 1 So let's jump in and and thank you all for joining. There's quite a lot of people on here whose names I recognize. A lot of you I've spoken to before, so we we kind of have been a relationship you've you've probably been on some of these sessions and as you know, we try and make them fun. Stuart Easton So let's jump in and and thank you all for joining. There's quite a lot of people on here whose names I recognize. A lot of you I've spoken to before, so we we kind of have been a relationship you've you've probably been on some of these sessions and as you know, we try and make them fun.
Speaker 1 Little bit of fun, little bit different to the normal talking heads. Stuart Easton Little bit of fun, little bit different to the normal talking heads.
Speaker 1 And today, I'm delighted to have Mike Hannon back. We, we've done this, we've done a number of these sessions with Mike over the years and you know MM and I when we we first met up, so transparent choice is all about project prioritization and mikes real deep domain of knowledge is around. Stuart Easton And today, I'm delighted to have Mike Hannon back. We, we've done this, we've done a number of these sessions with Mike over the years and you know MM and I when we we first met up, so transparent choice is all about project prioritization and mikes real deep domain of knowledge is around.
Speaker 1 Theory constraints and project flow getting flow through the organization, and I remember in our first couple of conversations, Mike, we had a good, good battle about you know whether or not you should bother prioritizing, because if you can triple the flow. Stuart Easton Theory constraints and project flow getting flow through the organization, and I remember in our first couple of conversations, Mike, we had a good, good battle about you know whether or not you should bother prioritizing, because if you can triple the flow.
Speaker 1 Why do you need to prioritize, right? Stuart Easton Why do you need to prioritize, right?
Speaker 1 So so, you know, Despite that we're still friends number of years later. But but Mike's an author speaker we we're often Co panelists on Laura Bernard's impact after hours thing which which is super fun and sometimes gets a little out of out of control. We'll try and keep it a little under control. Stuart Easton So so, you know, Despite that we're still friends number of years later. But but Mike's an author speaker we we're often Co panelists on Laura Bernard's impact after hours thing which which is super fun and sometimes gets a little out of out of control. We'll try and keep it a little under control.
Speaker 2 Super fun. Mike Hannan Super fun.
Speaker 1 Today, but only a little bit. Stuart Easton Today, but only a little bit.
Speaker 1 And. Stuart Easton And.
Speaker 1 You know, we're gonna be spending some time, Mike always, always has an opinion that it's a little contrarian to other people, right. And so we were talking a couple of weeks ago or actually, it was before Christmas, before Christmas. I think Mike wasn't it. And we, we got talking about. Stuart Easton You know, we're gonna be spending some time, Mike always, always has an opinion that it's a little contrarian to other people, right. And so we were talking a couple of weeks ago or actually, it was before Christmas, before Christmas. I think Mike wasn't it. And we, we got talking about.
Speaker 1 You know what are the key roadblocks in building a PMO that just is a project delivery machine, right? What are? What are the roadblocks? Stuart Easton You know what are the key roadblocks in building a PMO that just is a project delivery machine, right? What are? What are the roadblocks?
Speaker 1 And this presentation is kind of a response to that discussion. You know, it's building on some things that mikes presented before, but but it's, but that's really what we're we're you know what what the seed of this discussion was, the title. You know, you've all seen the title cuz you went to the. Stuart Easton And this presentation is kind of a response to that discussion. You know, it's building on some things that mikes presented before, but but it's, but that's really what we're we're you know what what the seed of this discussion was, the title. You know, you've all seen the title cuz you went to the.
Speaker 1 Landing page and and signed up for. Stuart Easton Landing page and and signed up for.
Speaker 1 Webinar so I won't bore you with that but what I will ask you to do is to give Mike a hard time. Stuart Easton Webinar so I won't bore you with that but what I will ask you to do is to give Mike a hard time.
Speaker 2 I actually do enjoy that. Mike Hannan I actually do enjoy that.
Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stuart Easton Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 Although we only have an hour, so we'll see how. Mike Hannan Although we only have an hour, so we'll see how.
Speaker 1 Much of a hard time, exactly the so so Mike is really smart, super experienced and so you know the more questions you have, the more you challenge his point of view, the more we're all going to learn quite frankly. And it's not all learning from Mike. Stuart Easton Much of a hard time, exactly the so so Mike is really smart, super experienced and so you know the more questions you have, the more you challenge his point of view, the more we're all going to learn quite frankly. And it's not all learning from Mike.
Speaker 1 Like when we do these sorts of things like we usually end up learning from the questioners sometimes as. Stuart Easton Like when we do these sorts of things like we usually end up learning from the questioners sometimes as.
Speaker 2 Well, right. Amen. That's why I love doing these. Mike Hannan Well, right. Amen. That's why I love doing these.
Speaker 1 Absolutely. Speaker 2 Yeah. So I could dive right in. Am I still, can you still? Stuart Easton Absolutely. Mike Hannan Yeah. So I could dive right in. Am I still, can you still?
Speaker 2 See my screen. Mike Hannan See my screen.
Speaker 1 Yes indeed. Yep. Stuart Easton Yes indeed. Yep.
Speaker 2 Yep, awesome. By the way, I do see a few familiar faces joining in the chat as well. Mike Hannan Yep, awesome. By the way, I do see a few familiar faces joining in the chat as well.
Speaker 2 Welcome, Ian heptonstall. Good to see you here. Even though I think Ian can probably guess what this most valuable skill is. Mike Hannan Welcome, Ian heptonstall. Good to see you here. Even though I think Ian can probably guess what this most valuable skill is.
Speaker 2 I'm about to teach I. Mike Hannan I'm about to teach I.
Speaker 2 I promise you we'll learn some new things as well. Mike Hannan I promise you we'll learn some new things as well.
Speaker 2 I'll make it worth your time. Mike Hannan I'll make it worth your time.
Speaker 2 See, let's dive in, as Stewart said, if you can get things flowing really fast, spending excessive amounts of time, arguing which project is for a second or third is almost irrelevant, because they could have all been done by now. But that's not to say that prioritization doesn't play a really important role here, which is why I care a lot about what Stewart is bringing to the. Mike Hannan See, let's dive in, as Stewart said, if you can get things flowing really fast, spending excessive amounts of time, arguing which project is for a second or third is almost irrelevant, because they could have all been done by now. But that's not to say that prioritization doesn't play a really important role here, which is why I care a lot about what Stewart is bringing to the.
Speaker 2 To the table transparent choice has been a fantastic. Mike Hannan To the table transparent choice has been a fantastic.
Speaker 2 Problem solver and thought leader in the in its own regard, and I think you'll see some of the the touch points with transparent choices. You know value proposition here as well. OK. So let's dive right in. Mike Hannan Problem solver and thought leader in the in its own regard, and I think you'll see some of the the touch points with transparent choices. You know value proposition here as well. OK. So let's dive right in.
Speaker 2 So I have a couple of promises to make to. Mike Hannan So I have a couple of promises to make to.
Speaker 2 You all. Mike Hannan You all.
Speaker 2 1st. Mike Hannan 1st.
Speaker 2 Again, some of you might know why project portfolios are not designed to maximize impact, but even saying it that way that it's not designed that way. Like what? Mike Hannan Again, some of you might know why project portfolios are not designed to maximize impact, but even saying it that way that it's not designed that way. Like what?
Speaker 2 You know, like you mean we're spending all this money and, you know, having all these arguments and. Mike Hannan You know, like you mean we're spending all this money and, you know, having all these arguments and.
Speaker 2 And and and they're not even designed to deliver on the results we want from the get go. Well, that's that's a bit disconcerting, right? Mike Hannan And and and they're not even designed to deliver on the results we want from the get go. Well, that's that's a bit disconcerting, right?
Speaker 2 You'll learn a single technique that can actually amplify performance and not just a little bit. Mike Hannan You'll learn a single technique that can actually amplify performance and not just a little bit.
Speaker 2 And why stop there? I'll even make a third promise. Mike Hannan And why stop there? I'll even make a third promise.
Speaker 2 You will never think about project management the same way again. Mike Hannan You will never think about project management the same way again.
Speaker 2 Who thinks I have a shot at delivering on all three of these for everyone here? Mike Hannan Who thinks I have a shot at delivering on all three of these for everyone here?
Speaker 2 Can people actually voice up in the in the zoom session or can they? Mike Hannan Can people actually voice up in the in the zoom session or can they?
Speaker 2 Just pop in the chats. Mike Hannan Just pop in the chats.
Speaker 1 Yeah, we can. We can do. Do you wanna do you want? Shall I unmute them or do you? Stuart Easton Yeah, we can. We can do. Do you wanna do you want? Shall I unmute them or do you?
Speaker 1 Wanna do it in chat? Stuart Easton Wanna do it in chat?
Speaker 2 Let's do it in chat because we have. Mike Hannan Let's do it in chat because we have.
Speaker 2 A lot to cover. Mike Hannan A lot to cover.
Speaker 2 But we'll open. Mike Hannan But we'll open.
Speaker 2 It up, maybe at the end and just have a more of a dialogue. So it's not just people typing. Mike Hannan It up, maybe at the end and just have a more of a dialogue. So it's not just people typing.
Speaker 2 Well, if you don't think I have. Mike Hannan Well, if you don't think I have.
Speaker 2 A shot at this I'm. Mike Hannan A shot at this I'm.
Speaker 2 OK, this is unlikely. Thank you, David. Mike Hannan OK, this is unlikely. Thank you, David.
Speaker 2 Again, I in a way I guess. Mike Hannan Again, I in a way I guess.
Speaker 2 I kind of like keeping expectations low, right? Mike Hannan I kind of like keeping expectations low, right?
Speaker 1 So that they can clear the bar. Stuart Easton So that they can clear the bar.
Speaker 2 Well, let's start with what I consider to be a really sad. Mike Hannan Well, let's start with what I consider to be a really sad.
Speaker 2 State of affairs. Speaker 1 Even you have low expectations, here we go. Mike Hannan State of affairs. Stuart Easton Even you have low expectations, here we go.
Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So even the most forgiving line. Mike Hannan Yeah, yeah, yeah. So even the most forgiving line.
Speaker 2 On this chart. Mike Hannan On this chart.
Speaker 2 The very top one there what? What percentage of projects? Mike Hannan The very top one there what? What percentage of projects?
Speaker 2 Meet original goals and business intent and this is PMI's annual survey of many thousands of people all over the world. In the project space, basically looking in the mirror and saying, yeah, I'm ugly. Mike Hannan Meet original goals and business intent and this is PMI's annual survey of many thousands of people all over the world. In the project space, basically looking in the mirror and saying, yeah, I'm ugly.
Speaker 2 And you know, like I'm I'm seeing. Mike Hannan And you know, like I'm I'm seeing.
Speaker 2 We're stuck in the 60s. Mike Hannan We're stuck in the 60s.
Speaker 2 60 percent, 65% climbing into the high 60s, a little bit and then bam. Mike Hannan 60 percent, 65% climbing into the high 60s, a little bit and then bam.
Speaker 2 For the 2021 study that came out not quite a year ago, which was based on 20. Mike Hannan For the 2021 study that came out not quite a year ago, which was based on 20.
Speaker 2 20 data right? Mike Hannan 20 data right?
Speaker 2 Right smack in the middle of the pandemic. Mike Hannan Right smack in the middle of the pandemic.
Speaker 2 We actually improved. Mike Hannan We actually improved.
Speaker 2 Which I have some ideas for why that might have happened. Mike Hannan Which I have some ideas for why that might have happened.
Speaker 2 A lot of people thought it would go the opposite direction, but it actually improved, but still terrible in my opinion a see a see minus right in the low 70s there and I just feel like as a. Mike Hannan A lot of people thought it would go the opposite direction, but it actually improved, but still terrible in my opinion a see a see minus right in the low 70s there and I just feel like as a.
Speaker 2 As you know, proud project management professional, you know, I I can't allow this to stand, right. I I can't. I can't be satisfied with this and I hope. Mike Hannan As you know, proud project management professional, you know, I I can't allow this to stand, right. I I can't. I can't be satisfied with this and I hope.
Speaker 2 You're not satisfied with it either. Mike Hannan You're not satisfied with it either.
Speaker 1 And and and for context. All of those numbers for the for the top performers in the industry, every one of those numbers should be around 90% or higher. Stuart Easton And and and for context. All of those numbers for the for the top performers in the industry, every one of those numbers should be around 90% or higher.
Speaker 2 Yeah, and that's possible. Mike Hannan Yeah, and that's possible.
Speaker 2 I'm looking. Mike Hannan I'm looking.
Speaker 2 Nations absolutely achieved that. Mike Hannan Nations absolutely achieved that.
Speaker 1 And they do it. And they do it. Stuart Easton And they do it. And they do it.
Speaker 1 Consistently right. That's the key. That's right. Stuart Easton Consistently right. That's the key. That's right.
Speaker 2 So I thought I would start by making an assertion that this is as much as I love PMI and the fact that they put out this, this study that's available to the public every year. You don't even have to be a member to download it for free. I take a lot of issue with their assertion that ohh if we all just send PM train. Mike Hannan So I thought I would start by making an assertion that this is as much as I love PMI and the fact that they put out this, this study that's available to the public every year. You don't even have to be a member to download it for free. I take a lot of issue with their assertion that ohh if we all just send PM train.
Speaker 2 Then you know, maybe maybe everything will be better. I feel like that's blaming us PM's. And, you know, maybe sometimes that's true. Like, who could not stand to up? Mike Hannan Then you know, maybe maybe everything will be better. I feel like that's blaming us PM's. And, you know, maybe sometimes that's true. Like, who could not stand to up?
Speaker 2 Our. Speaker 2 Game. Hopefully you're all here today to learn something new. So like lifelong learning and all that of course, is strongly encouraged. I'm still gaining skills all the time and I've been doing it 30 years, so not saying training is a bad idea, but. Mike Hannan Our. Mike Hannan Game. Hopefully you're all here today to learn something new. So like lifelong learning and all that of course, is strongly encouraged. I'm still gaining skills all the time and I've been doing it 30 years, so not saying training is a bad idea, but.
Speaker 2 I think it's a bit of a cop. Mike Hannan I think it's a bit of a cop.
Speaker 2 Right. Just blame the skill level of the PM's. I think when you're seeing something stuck like that year after year, even though we've matured the project management professional a lot over. Mike Hannan Right. Just blame the skill level of the PM's. I think when you're seeing something stuck like that year after year, even though we've matured the project management professional a lot over.
Speaker 2 The last few decades. Mike Hannan The last few decades.
Speaker 2 I think there's something systemic going on and I'm going to. Mike Hannan I think there's something systemic going on and I'm going to.
Speaker 2 Try and prove it. Speaker 2 To you with this chart. Mike Hannan Try and prove it. Mike Hannan To you with this chart.
Speaker 2 OK, that in spite of the fact that we actually do know what we're doing most of the time and our acting. Mike Hannan OK, that in spite of the fact that we actually do know what we're doing most of the time and our acting.
Speaker 2 In what we think are the best interests of our organizations, not trying to sabotage our our peers, hopefully too much. Mike Hannan In what we think are the best interests of our organizations, not trying to sabotage our our peers, hopefully too much.
Speaker 2 We end up stuck and so. Mike Hannan We end up stuck and so.
Speaker 2 I did this this this is kind of reflective of a few different customers I've had that are that tend to be large IT organizations not always. And the common complaints are right. Projects take too long and cost too much. Mike Hannan I did this this this is kind of reflective of a few different customers I've had that are that tend to be large IT organizations not always. And the common complaints are right. Projects take too long and cost too much.
Speaker 2 As a result, there's pressure to take shortcuts whenever we take shortcuts. Defects grow, especially in like software and things right as the code base gets more and more defective, that just makes it harder to go to the next set of projects. Mike Hannan As a result, there's pressure to take shortcuts whenever we take shortcuts. Defects grow, especially in like software and things right as the code base gets more and more defective, that just makes it harder to go to the next set of projects.
Speaker 2 Right. And so so they take too long and cost too much and round and. Mike Hannan Right. And so so they take too long and cost too much and round and.
Speaker 2 Round we go. That little mini vicious cycle. Mike Hannan Round we go. That little mini vicious cycle.
Speaker 2 There as this is happening, of course the business is looking on saying I don't trust these guys, they're not going to deliver my priorities. They then take the answer is to to have more status meetings and more reports and you know more details and and you know the the trust starts to really break down. Mike Hannan There as this is happening, of course the business is looking on saying I don't trust these guys, they're not going to deliver my priorities. They then take the answer is to to have more status meetings and more reports and you know more details and and you know the the trust starts to really break down.
Speaker 2 So then somebody says, well, maybe we. Mike Hannan So then somebody says, well, maybe we.
Speaker 2 Just need to estimate better. Mike Hannan Just need to estimate better.
Speaker 2 Maybe we should. Mike Hannan Maybe we should.
Speaker 2 Go try and do that. That's not very realistic given that we already have some chaos here, right? And things do go. Mike Hannan Go try and do that. That's not very realistic given that we already have some chaos here, right? And things do go.
Speaker 2 Meeting so that makes planning really difficult. Not very helpful, which then leads people to say, well, why bother planning? Mike Hannan Meeting so that makes planning really difficult. Not very helpful, which then leads people to say, well, why bother planning?
Speaker 2 And so, of course, when you don't plan projects. Mike Hannan And so, of course, when you don't plan projects.
Speaker 2 They're going to take. Mike Hannan They're going to take.
Speaker 2 Take too long and cost too much. Mike Hannan Take too long and cost too much.
Speaker 2 Oh, by the way, over. Mike Hannan Oh, by the way, over.
Speaker 2 The top left. Mike Hannan The top left.
Speaker 2 That's sort of the portfolio or top organization level? Speaker 3 But. Mike Hannan That's sort of the portfolio or top organization level? Speaker 3 But.
Speaker 2 I assert that almost every organization I've seen called project, you know, project portfolio or. Mike Hannan I assert that almost every organization I've seen called project, you know, project portfolio or.
Speaker 2 The MO. The KPI's are not value oriented and people will say well it's cause value is hard to measure. We debate it endlessly. We never agree. It's easier to count things like utilization. Mike Hannan The MO. The KPI's are not value oriented and people will say well it's cause value is hard to measure. We debate it endlessly. We never agree. It's easier to count things like utilization.
Speaker 3 Of our of our of. Speaker 3 Of our of our of.
Speaker 2 Our resources and so. Mike Hannan Our resources and so.
Speaker 2 Forth. Mike Hannan Forth.
Speaker 2 And the moment you do that and give in to something that's not very value oriented. Mike Hannan And the moment you do that and give in to something that's not very value oriented.
Speaker 2 Or maybe on the cost side of the equation where let's measure project costs. Mike Hannan Or maybe on the cost side of the equation where let's measure project costs.
Speaker 2 And team utilization and how many people have gone to scrum training and whatever other things we're we're measuring, it makes portfolio and resource management really difficult. Mike Hannan And team utilization and how many people have gone to scrum training and whatever other things we're we're measuring, it makes portfolio and resource management really difficult.
Speaker 2 And of course, the fact that we aren't planning very well makes that even harder. Mike Hannan And of course, the fact that we aren't planning very well makes that even harder.
Speaker 2 It's really difficult to get any kind of prioritization when you don't have value oriented KPIs and everything's already becoming so complicated. So that's a mini vicious cycle as well. It's not hard to see then that your PMO is not going to be all that value focused even though it's honest, hard working people trying their best. Mike Hannan It's really difficult to get any kind of prioritization when you don't have value oriented KPIs and everything's already becoming so complicated. So that's a mini vicious cycle as well. It's not hard to see then that your PMO is not going to be all that value focused even though it's honest, hard working people trying their best.
Speaker 2 That reinforces the the loss of trust. Mike Hannan That reinforces the the loss of trust.
Speaker 2 Because things are so difficult to get approved and everything takes so long, if I want to get my initiative through, I don't want to wait two years, so I'm just going to find a way to kind of piggyback it on some project that's already funded. So now projects are getting more complex and. Mike Hannan Because things are so difficult to get approved and everything takes so long, if I want to get my initiative through, I don't want to wait two years, so I'm just going to find a way to kind of piggyback it on some project that's already funded. So now projects are getting more complex and.
Speaker 2 And you know, experiencing scope creep. So of course that's going to make them take even longer. Oh, by the way, because we have a defective code base or other defects in our portfolio and we don't really have good plans, then we have lots of emergencies and we're pulling resources constantly to put out fires that makes resource management, of course. Mike Hannan And you know, experiencing scope creep. So of course that's going to make them take even longer. Oh, by the way, because we have a defective code base or other defects in our portfolio and we don't really have good plans, then we have lots of emergencies and we're pulling resources constantly to put out fires that makes resource management, of course.
Folio. Folio.
Speaker 2 More difficult and and the result is we're going to be jerking people around, swapping them in and out of initiatives, pulling them off of projects to put out fires and then of course that just makes projects take even longer and cost even more. Mike Hannan More difficult and and the result is we're going to be jerking people around, swapping them in and out of initiatives, pulling them off of projects to put out fires and then of course that just makes projects take even longer and cost even more.
Speaker 2 So I've shown this vicious cycle to I think. Mike Hannan So I've shown this vicious cycle to I think.
Speaker 2 Know. Mike Hannan Know.
Speaker 2 Probably I would say about. Mike Hannan Probably I would say about.
Speaker 2 I don't know 10 different groups totaling over 1000 people, and I've yet to have anyone say. Mike Hannan I don't know 10 different groups totaling over 1000 people, and I've yet to have anyone say.
Speaker 2 No, that looks. Mike Hannan No, that looks.
Speaker 2 Nothing like my organization, even if you're not IT. Others typically at least 80% of what's on here. People will say, Oh my God, you. Mike Hannan Nothing like my organization, even if you're not IT. Others typically at least 80% of what's on here. People will say, Oh my God, you.
Speaker 2 Yeah. Are you sure you don't work in my? Mike Hannan Yeah. Are you sure you don't work in my?
Speaker 2 Organization. Mike Hannan Organization.
Speaker 2 This is the mess we find ourselves. Mike Hannan This is the mess we find ourselves.
Speaker 2 In the good news? Mike Hannan In the good news?
Speaker 2 Well, the bad news is, if you go after a symptom like, well, defects. Mike Hannan Well, the bad news is, if you go after a symptom like, well, defects.
Speaker 2 Like, let's have a. Speaker 2 Quality initiative and improve quality. You're not really fixing the root cause that's making the defects grow. Mike Hannan Like, let's have a. Mike Hannan Quality initiative and improve quality. You're not really fixing the root cause that's making the defects grow.
Speaker 2 Just being better minded about quality doesn't really flip this cycle to virtuous. Mike Hannan Just being better minded about quality doesn't really flip this cycle to virtuous.
Speaker 2 The good news, though, is if we can find the root cause, maybe we. Mike Hannan The good news, though, is if we can find the root cause, maybe we.
Speaker 2 Can flip this. Mike Hannan Can flip this.
Speaker 2 And so. So let's show you this. We'll start now. Let's change the keep. Your KPS evaluated even if you don't have a good definition. Mike Hannan And so. So let's show you this. We'll start now. Let's change the keep. Your KPS evaluated even if you don't have a good definition.
Speaker 2 Of value and you debate it. Mike Hannan Of value and you debate it.
Speaker 2 Endlessly. And some projects like employee morale, projects like who knows what the value is there we we know it might be high, but how we're supposed? Mike Hannan Endlessly. And some projects like employee morale, projects like who knows what the value is there we we know it might be high, but how we're supposed?
Speaker 4 Are we? Speaker 4 Are we?
Speaker 2 To measure that. Mike Hannan To measure that.
Speaker 2 Even if all you do is measure the. Mike Hannan Even if all you do is measure the.
Speaker 2 Number of completions per. Mike Hannan Number of completions per.
Speaker 2 Year the number of minimum viable product completions that you knock out per. Mike Hannan Year the number of minimum viable product completions that you knock out per.
Speaker 2 Month per quarter per. Mike Hannan Month per quarter per.
Speaker 2 Year. That's at least starting to be. Mike Hannan Year. That's at least starting to be.
Speaker 2 A closer proxy to. Mike Hannan A closer proxy to.
Speaker 2 The value side of the equation. Mike Hannan The value side of the equation.
Speaker 2 Prior to portfolio and resource management becomes much more. Mike Hannan Prior to portfolio and resource management becomes much more.
Speaker 2 Much simpler once you have a clear idea of value. Like if the goal is to just get more completions up well. Mike Hannan Much simpler once you have a clear idea of value. Like if the goal is to just get more completions up well.
Speaker 2 Then we don't have to measure all the cost stuff so much. Mike Hannan Then we don't have to measure all the cost stuff so much.
Speaker 2 Prioritization also becomes easier. You do need to change these three things. Mike Hannan Prioritization also becomes easier. You do need to change these three things.
Target. Target.
Speaker 2 But starting with the KPIs and then getting good prioritization and then some kind of effective resource management that is now much easier. Mike Hannan But starting with the KPIs and then getting good prioritization and then some kind of effective resource management that is now much easier.
Speaker 2 Then the entire rest of this cycle, I argue, will automatically. Mike Hannan Then the entire rest of this cycle, I argue, will automatically.
Speaker 1 Flip to virtuous. Stuart Easton Flip to virtuous.
Speaker 2 Suddenly you have positively reinforcing the facts. Mike Hannan Suddenly you have positively reinforcing the facts.
Speaker 2 Going on all over the place. Mike Hannan Going on all over the place.
Speaker 2 Now you have more trust. Things are more reliable, they're less chaotic, therefore they're easier. Mike Hannan Now you have more trust. Things are more reliable, they're less chaotic, therefore they're easier.
Speaker 2 You know, to execute, easier to estimate, easier to plan, planning becomes much more helpful, which of course even makes the portfolio and resource management challenge much easier. Mike Hannan You know, to execute, easier to estimate, easier to plan, planning becomes much more helpful, which of course even makes the portfolio and resource management challenge much easier.
Speaker 2 And so now, once you've got this kind of scenario, now maybe having a quality improvement initiative might also help, right? It would be a positively reinforcing aspect 1. Mike Hannan And so now, once you've got this kind of scenario, now maybe having a quality improvement initiative might also help, right? It would be a positively reinforcing aspect 1.
Speaker 2 So you've kind of got the key drivers here set in the right. Mike Hannan So you've kind of got the key drivers here set in the right.
Speaker 1 So so one of the interesting things. Stuart Easton So so one of the interesting things.
Speaker 1 Here Mike, right. Stuart Easton Here Mike, right.
Speaker 1 In in these two slides, is that that you know, basically massively simplifying what you just said. If you focus on the right hand side on the symptoms rather than the cause of the the, the the problem, then you're playing whack A mole right? And and training and things like that. Stuart Easton In in these two slides, is that that you know, basically massively simplifying what you just said. If you focus on the right hand side on the symptoms rather than the cause of the the, the the problem, then you're playing whack A mole right? And and training and things like that.
Speaker 1 On the right hand side, you know so. So you know, Jonathan was kind of saying in the chat how. Stuart Easton On the right hand side, you know so. So you know, Jonathan was kind of saying in the chat how.
Speaker 1 You know. Stuart Easton You know.
Speaker 2 The PMO. Mike Hannan The PMO.
Speaker 1 Police. Yeah, the PMO police. I love that. I love that phrase. Right, you, you get the PMO police and you, you know, you're you're. You're slowing things down. You're adding to the pain. You're not actually solving it. And and fundamentally, the only reason that we do projects is so that we can hit our business KPI. So we can hit our strategic goals. So it has to start on the left because that's where the strategic goals live. Stuart Easton Police. Yeah, the PMO police. I love that. I love that phrase. Right, you, you get the PMO police and you, you know, you're you're. You're slowing things down. You're adding to the pain. You're not actually solving it. And and fundamentally, the only reason that we do projects is so that we can hit our business KPI. So we can hit our strategic goals. So it has to start on the left because that's where the strategic goals live.
Speaker 2 That's right. And. Speaker 2 It's so easy to blame everyone on the right. Mike Hannan That's right. And. Mike Hannan It's so easy to blame everyone on the right.
Speaker 2 For not doing their jobs. Mike Hannan For not doing their jobs.
Speaker 1 Absolutely, absolutely. It has to start on the left. Stuart Easton Absolutely, absolutely. It has to start on the left.
Speaker 2 And of course, the things, the things on the left tend to be more leadership. Mike Hannan And of course, the things, the things on the left tend to be more leadership.
Speaker 2 Oriented but of. Mike Hannan Oriented but of.
Speaker 2 Course we all can play. Mike Hannan Course we all can play.
Speaker 2 A. Speaker 2 Part in helping the helping fix those boxes or flip flip them from. Mike Hannan A. Mike Hannan Part in helping the helping fix those boxes or flip flip them from.
Speaker 2 Red to blue. I guess I'm as I'm showing here, right? Mike Hannan Red to blue. I guess I'm as I'm showing here, right?
Speaker 2 So anyway, my my assertion is it's the system and that and that negatively reinforcing loops have select few root causes. I assert these three root causes are are the ones and that if you get those right aw whole lot of other things will start to go better. Mike Hannan So anyway, my my assertion is it's the system and that and that negatively reinforcing loops have select few root causes. I assert these three root causes are are the ones and that if you get those right aw whole lot of other things will start to go better.
Speaker 2 But let's take it a little bit. Mike Hannan But let's take it a little bit.
Speaker 2 Further. Mike Hannan Further.
Speaker 2 I like to go back and actually challenge our thinking, not just on on. Mike Hannan I like to go back and actually challenge our thinking, not just on on.
Speaker 2 Trying to think in more value oriented terms with our KPI's but even how we think about project manager. Mike Hannan Trying to think in more value oriented terms with our KPI's but even how we think about project manager.
Speaker 2 And so there's a few definitions out there, but I'll. I'll take PMI's right. Temporary endeavor, blah, blah, blah. We've all seen this. It's changed very little over the last. Mike Hannan And so there's a few definitions out there, but I'll. I'll take PMI's right. Temporary endeavor, blah, blah, blah. We've all seen this. It's changed very little over the last.
Speaker 2 4050 years. Mike Hannan 4050 years.
Speaker 2 And at first blush, and in fact for the 1st 20 years of my career, I didn't see anything wrong with it. It seemed fine, hard to argue with. It's not wrong, but I don't think it really captures what inspires most of us. PM. Mike Hannan And at first blush, and in fact for the 1st 20 years of my career, I didn't see anything wrong with it. It seemed fine, hard to argue with. It's not wrong, but I don't think it really captures what inspires most of us. PM.
Speaker 2 'S. Speaker 2 To really be at the tops of. Mike Hannan 'S. Mike Hannan To really be at the tops of.
Speaker 2 Our. Mike Hannan Our.
Speaker 2 Fields right to do. Mike Hannan Fields right to do.
Speaker 2 Something temporarily and you and churn out something unique. Mike Hannan Something temporarily and you and churn out something unique.
Speaker 2 How about something uniquely compelling, right? So I'm gonna offer what I assert is a much better definition. I encourage you all to come up with ones better than this, in fact. But the notion that we are making investments. Mike Hannan How about something uniquely compelling, right? So I'm gonna offer what I assert is a much better definition. I encourage you all to come up with ones better than this, in fact. But the notion that we are making investments.
Yes. Yes.
Speaker 2 So a portfolio that I don't, I don't challenge the definition of portfolio on this slide, but the portfolio definition PMI has is a collection of stuff, strategic stuff, whatever. And it's not just a grouping, right, it's it's, it's this notion that we have an investment portfolio. Mike Hannan So a portfolio that I don't, I don't challenge the definition of portfolio on this slide, but the portfolio definition PMI has is a collection of stuff, strategic stuff, whatever. And it's not just a grouping, right, it's it's, it's this notion that we have an investment portfolio.
And. And.
Speaker 2 Right investment portfolios have risk. Mike Hannan Right investment portfolios have risk.
Speaker 2 We're not always gonna land this, and if we do always land. Mike Hannan We're not always gonna land this, and if we do always land.
Speaker 2 Our projects perfectly. Mike Hannan Our projects perfectly.
Speaker 2 We're we're probably not taking. Mike Hannan We're we're probably not taking.
Speaker 2 Chris. Mike Hannan Chris.
Speaker 2 One of my favorite examples is you know the nasas and the European Space agencies. James Webb Space Telescope launched Christmas morning, massive amount of risk, 344 single point failures, any one of which right, could just render the entire $10 billion investment in 30 years of effort is completely useless in an instant, right? Mike Hannan One of my favorite examples is you know the nasas and the European Space agencies. James Webb Space Telescope launched Christmas morning, massive amount of risk, 344 single point failures, any one of which right, could just render the entire $10 billion investment in 30 years of effort is completely useless in an instant, right?
But. But.
Speaker 2 But of course. Speaker 2 We have to do that project right and. Mike Hannan But of course. Mike Hannan We have to do that project right and.
Speaker 2 In fact, if it. Mike Hannan In fact, if it.
Speaker 2 Fails. I argue we should spend another 10 billion. Mike Hannan Fails. I argue we should spend another 10 billion.
Speaker 2 To get another one. Speaker 2 Launched there right. Anyway, so we're we're trying to generate maximal positive impact. Mike Hannan To get another one. Mike Hannan Launched there right. Anyway, so we're we're trying to generate maximal positive impact.
Speaker 2 Right. I was fortunate enough to start my career at NASA and that was. Mike Hannan Right. I was fortunate enough to start my career at NASA and that was.
Speaker 2 Sort of in our. Mike Hannan Sort of in our.
Speaker 2 Lifeblood like we're here to change our understanding of. Mike Hannan Lifeblood like we're here to change our understanding of.
Speaker 2 The universe we're we're here to. Mike Hannan The universe we're we're here to.
Speaker 2 Rewrite all science textbooks right so that we gain much more understanding at large. The stakeholders are every single human being on the planet, including those yet to be. Mike Hannan Rewrite all science textbooks right so that we gain much more understanding at large. The stakeholders are every single human being on the planet, including those yet to be.
Speaker 2 Born right? Mike Hannan Born right?
Speaker 2 Stakeholder management is tough, you know? So this notion that not even the sky is the limit, right. And that's why many of us PM's kind. Mike Hannan Stakeholder management is tough, you know? So this notion that not even the sky is the limit, right. And that's why many of us PM's kind.
But. But.
Speaker 2 Of get hooked. Mike Hannan Of get hooked.
Speaker 2 On it, right, especially like me if. Mike Hannan On it, right, especially like me if.
Speaker 2 You sort of fell. Mike Hannan You sort of fell.
Speaker 2 Into it as a career, you stick with it because it's so exciting to see. Mike Hannan Into it as a career, you stick with it because it's so exciting to see.
Speaker 2 This you know how we're. Mike Hannan This you know how we're.
Speaker 2 Trying to improve our world with the. Mike Hannan Trying to improve our world with the.
Speaker 2 Goals. All right, maybe I'm just a dreamer. Mike Hannan Goals. All right, maybe I'm just a dreamer.
Speaker 2 Well, let's keep going. Let's challenge definition, project management, blah blah blah meeting project requirements. Very boring, not inspiring at all. What about? Yes, we need to apply knowledge, skills, tools and techniques, but we do it because we're trying to maximize this positive impact. Mike Hannan Well, let's keep going. Let's challenge definition, project management, blah blah blah meeting project requirements. Very boring, not inspiring at all. What about? Yes, we need to apply knowledge, skills, tools and techniques, but we do it because we're trying to maximize this positive impact.
Speaker 2 Right, more and more bang for the buck when help our organizations thrive, we want. Mike Hannan Right, more and more bang for the buck when help our organizations thrive, we want.
Speaker 2 To help leave the world. Mike Hannan To help leave the world.
Speaker 2 A better place than when we found it, right? That's the kind of thing we really ought to be thinking about. Not just, you know, meeting requirements and. Mike Hannan A better place than when we found it, right? That's the kind of thing we really ought to be thinking about. Not just, you know, meeting requirements and.
Speaker 2 You know, and calling it a. Mike Hannan You know, and calling it a.
Speaker 2 OK, I think PMO is the worst one. In fact, whoever it was, it was talking about the MO police. I think it comes from definitions like this, right, you we. Mike Hannan OK, I think PMO is the worst one. In fact, whoever it was, it was talking about the MO police. I think it comes from definitions like this, right, you we.
Speaker 2 Hear the word. Speaker 2 Structure and standardized and governance and all. Just for sharing. Mike Hannan Hear the word. Mike Hannan Structure and standardized and governance and all. Just for sharing.
Speaker 2 Like, really that we're going to have a whole bunch of structure and standards and governance just to share stuff that's not very ambitious. Mike Hannan Like, really that we're going to have a whole bunch of structure and standards and governance just to share stuff that's not very ambitious.
Speaker 2 So I say no, it's got to be the most powerful generator of ever higher. Mike Hannan So I say no, it's got to be the most powerful generator of ever higher.
Speaker 2 Returns on project investments. Mike Hannan Returns on project investments.
Speaker 2 If if we. Mike Hannan If if we.
Speaker 2 Redefine how we think about our own jobs. More along the bottom of the slide and less about the top. Mike Hannan Redefine how we think about our own jobs. More along the bottom of the slide and less about the top.
Speaker 2 I think we free ourselves to do things like flipping vicious cycles to virtuous. Mike Hannan I think we free ourselves to do things like flipping vicious cycles to virtuous.
Speaker 2 So mindset first. Then you know techniques to reinforce them, and then we can talk, you know, tools and all the other stuff too. So the good news here is if we change our definitions, which is how we think about things sometimes that could be hard to do. But you know, it's also fun. Mike Hannan So mindset first. Then you know techniques to reinforce them, and then we can talk, you know, tools and all the other stuff too. So the good news here is if we change our definitions, which is how we think about things sometimes that could be hard to do. But you know, it's also fun.
Speaker 2 Change our KPIs. Then there's only one thing. Mike Hannan Change our KPIs. Then there's only one thing.
Speaker 2 Left to do. Mike Hannan Left to do.
Speaker 2 And that is change how we manage flow. In fact if you look through PMI standard for portfolio management, the word flow or managing flow or even things like driving up the cadence of value delivery, terms like that don't appear. Mike Hannan And that is change how we manage flow. In fact if you look through PMI standard for portfolio management, the word flow or managing flow or even things like driving up the cadence of value delivery, terms like that don't appear.
Speaker 2 Right. And it's so crucial and. Mike Hannan Right. And it's so crucial and.
Speaker 2 That's really going. Mike Hannan That's really going.
Speaker 2 To be the the remaining focus of this. Mike Hannan To be the the remaining focus of this.
Speaker 2 Of this presentation. Mike Hannan Of this presentation.
Speaker 2 Some of my theory of constraints, friends that I've seen on the line might recognize this video. We're we're not gonna. Mike Hannan Some of my theory of constraints, friends that I've seen on the line might recognize this video. We're we're not gonna.
Speaker 2 Play it but. Mike Hannan Play it but.
Speaker 2 I'll I'll share the link in a minute, but bottom line is we all have a bottleneck in our organization. Some of us would argue we have lots of bottlenecks in our organizations. Mike Hannan I'll I'll share the link in a minute, but bottom line is we all have a bottleneck in our organization. Some of us would argue we have lots of bottlenecks in our organizations.
Speaker 2 Limiting the amount of in this case. Mike Hannan Limiting the amount of in this case.
Speaker 2 You know the flow of the desired result, which is the. Mike Hannan You know the flow of the desired result, which is the.
Speaker 2 Flow of water out of the bottle. Mike Hannan Flow of water out of the bottle.
Speaker 2 Right. We turn it upside down. We like gravity do. Mike Hannan Right. We turn it upside down. We like gravity do.
Speaker 2 Its. Speaker 2 Thing. Mike Hannan Its. Mike Hannan Thing.
Speaker 2 And we see there's lots of activity, lots of chaos. Mike Hannan And we see there's lots of activity, lots of chaos.
Speaker 2 Lots of collisions of all the molecules, lots of contention of that scarce bottleneck resource for both water going out and air coming in, kind of fighting. Mike Hannan Lots of collisions of all the molecules, lots of contention of that scarce bottleneck resource for both water going out and air coming in, kind of fighting.
Those. Those.
Speaker 2 Over every little bit. Mike Hannan Over every little bit.
Speaker 2 And but we do get some flow right and if you wait about a minute, you'll get, you know, if that were a whole gallon, you would get the whole gallon flowing out in about a minute. Mike Hannan And but we do get some flow right and if you wait about a minute, you'll get, you know, if that were a whole gallon, you would get the whole gallon flowing out in about a minute.
Speaker 3 I. Speaker 3 I.
So right away. So right away.
Speaker 2 I bet everyone here can is already starting to think about better ways to manage that, that, that bottleneck resource heard. Some people talk about tipping the bottle slightly to sort of even out the the flow of air in and the and the flow of water out. Mike Hannan I bet everyone here can is already starting to think about better ways to manage that, that, that bottleneck resource heard. Some people talk about tipping the bottle slightly to sort of even out the the flow of air in and the and the flow of water out.
Speaker 2 Many people often go right to this vortex, right? It takes a little bit of effort to kind of get that spin motion going. Mike Hannan Many people often go right to this vortex, right? It takes a little bit of effort to kind of get that spin motion going.
Speaker 2 Right. But once it's going it, you should be able to maintain it with minimal additional. Mike Hannan Right. But once it's going it, you should be able to maintain it with minimal additional.
Speaker 2 Effort. Mike Hannan Effort.
Speaker 2 And wow, look at the flow rate improvement. Mike Hannan And wow, look at the flow rate improvement.
Speaker 2 Right. We've, we've. Speaker 2 Doubled it with one simple management change. Mike Hannan Right. We've, we've. Mike Hannan Doubled it with one simple management change.
Speaker 2 Right. Again, because we're now measuring things, the the thing we want, which is more. Mike Hannan Right. Again, because we're now measuring things, the the thing we want, which is more.
Speaker 2 Flow. Mike Hannan Flow.
Speaker 2 Of course, there's maybe an. Mike Hannan Of course, there's maybe an.
Speaker 2 Even better way, if we were to. Mike Hannan Even better way, if we were to.
Speaker 2 More if we were to fix the allocation of that scarce bottleneck. Mike Hannan More if we were to fix the allocation of that scarce bottleneck.
Speaker 2 Resource with a straw. Mike Hannan Resource with a straw.
Speaker 2 To allow air in and water out. Then we could double the flow rate again. Mike Hannan To allow air in and water out. Then we could double the flow rate again.
Speaker 2 So so the point here is we often are because we're stuck in the vicious cycle. It's so hard to see how much improvement is possible. Mike Hannan So so the point here is we often are because we're stuck in the vicious cycle. It's so hard to see how much improvement is possible.
Speaker 2 Because every time we try and make a little improvement somewhere, it just feels, you know, like poor Sisyphus, that has the the boulder rolling back down. Mike Hannan Because every time we try and make a little improvement somewhere, it just feels, you know, like poor Sisyphus, that has the the boulder rolling back down.
Speaker 2 On it, right? Mike Hannan On it, right?
Speaker 2 And so this notion that we could double and then double again. Mike Hannan And so this notion that we could double and then double again.
Speaker 2 This flow rate doesn't seem doesn't seem possible but but in in in. Mike Hannan This flow rate doesn't seem doesn't seem possible but but in in in.
Speaker 2 This example shows it is. Mike Hannan This example shows it is.
Speaker 2 By the way, Stuart, do you have a way of? Mike Hannan By the way, Stuart, do you have a way of?
Speaker 2 Sharing this deck the PDF form afterwards. Mike Hannan Sharing this deck the PDF form afterwards.
Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, absolutely we can. We can certainly do that. Stuart Easton Yeah, yeah, absolutely we can. We can certainly do that.
Speaker 2 Great, because there's the link you can just click on right if. Mike Hannan Great, because there's the link you can just click on right if.
Speaker 2 You want to check out that video. Mike Hannan You want to check out that video.
Speaker 2 So let's take it. Mike Hannan So let's take it.
Speaker 2 From physics to something we all know a little bit. Yeah, more closely, which is traffic. Right, being stuck in. Mike Hannan From physics to something we all know a little bit. Yeah, more closely, which is traffic. Right, being stuck in.
Speaker 2 And so basically taking some law of physics called flow density and basically saying up to a certain point, the more you try to flow through a system. Mike Hannan And so basically taking some law of physics called flow density and basically saying up to a certain point, the more you try to flow through a system.
Speaker 2 Yeah, the more the more success you'll have, just keep adding vehicles to the highway and you'll get more vehicles completing trips. Mike Hannan Yeah, the more the more success you'll have, just keep adding vehicles to the highway and you'll get more vehicles completing trips.
Speaker 2 Of course, until you start to reach some sort of. Mike Hannan Of course, until you start to reach some sort of.
Speaker 2 Capacity limits. Mike Hannan Capacity limits.
Speaker 2 Right. So what point on this curve is the optimal, of course, if maximizing flow is the goal, we want it to be. Mike Hannan Right. So what point on this curve is the optimal, of course, if maximizing flow is the goal, we want it to be.
Speaker 2 Somewhere near the top of that red curve. Mike Hannan Somewhere near the top of that red curve.
Speaker 2 But I think too often right, certainly in traffic we find. Mike Hannan But I think too often right, certainly in traffic we find.
Speaker 2 Things don't really move very well at all, because we're just allowing too many cars on the road. Mike Hannan Things don't really move very well at all, because we're just allowing too many cars on the road.
Speaker 2 I assert that we do the same thing with our project portfolios. It's human nature, right? How many of us are going to voluntarily sit on the entrance ramp and wait? Mike Hannan I assert that we do the same thing with our project portfolios. It's human nature, right? How many of us are going to voluntarily sit on the entrance ramp and wait?
Speaker 2 For you know some optimal value, some optimal density to be reached before we before we risk congesting things ourselves right. There does have to be, I think, good governance there. Mike Hannan For you know some optimal value, some optimal density to be reached before we before we risk congesting things ourselves right. There does have to be, I think, good governance there.
Speaker 2 Of of we should not just allow everyone on the road whenever they want to join it. Mike Hannan Of of we should not just allow everyone on the road whenever they want to join it.
Speaker 2 Because we'll end up. Mike Hannan Because we'll end up.
Speaker 2 Then the tail end of that density curve, which is no fun at all. Mike Hannan Then the tail end of that density curve, which is no fun at all.
Speaker 2 And so I argue that if we flip the the equation or flip the axes and the labels from traffic to project right, so the flow is, let's say completions per year. Mike Hannan And so I argue that if we flip the the equation or flip the axes and the labels from traffic to project right, so the flow is, let's say completions per year.
Speaker 2 And the density is how much of our existing resources in the in the project portfolio are actually being utilized, right? So again, if Max utilization is the goal, I think you'll find things slowing. Mike Hannan And the density is how much of our existing resources in the in the project portfolio are actually being utilized, right? So again, if Max utilization is the goal, I think you'll find things slowing.
Speaker 2 Down quite a bit. Mike Hannan Down quite a bit.
Speaker 2 I've been a part of many organizations where that's in the case. Mike Hannan I've been a part of many organizations where that's in the case.
Speaker 2 Of course, we don't want it to flow. We don't want it to slow down to a standstill, cause then the business stakeholders will start to get really angry and. Mike Hannan Of course, we don't want it to flow. We don't want it to slow down to a standstill, cause then the business stakeholders will start to get really angry and.
Speaker 2 Shout. Mike Hannan Shout.
Speaker 2 And so I think we tend to kind of find ourselves being pulled up and down this side. Mike Hannan And so I think we tend to kind of find ourselves being pulled up and down this side.
Speaker 2 Of the slope. Mike Hannan Of the slope.
Speaker 2 Right. We sort of end up somewhere there, which by the way is no different than when we were just starting to send cars onto the highway. Mike Hannan Right. We sort of end up somewhere there, which by the way is no different than when we were just starting to send cars onto the highway.
Speaker 2 In the 1st place, right? Mike Hannan In the 1st place, right?
Speaker 2 So think about that you could do your your. Mike Hannan So think about that you could do your your.
Speaker 1 Portfolios today are. Stuart Easton Portfolios today are.
Speaker 2 Probably performing about the same as if you were. Mike Hannan Probably performing about the same as if you were.
Speaker 2 Only at 20% pass. Mike Hannan Only at 20% pass.
Speaker 2 So chew on that for a little bit I. Mike Hannan So chew on that for a little bit I.
Speaker 2 Know I still chew on. Mike Hannan Know I still chew on.
Speaker 2 That after years and years. Mike Hannan That after years and years.
Speaker 2 Comment Stuart. Mike Hannan Comment Stuart.
Speaker 1 Yeah. No. So I was just gonna. I was just gonna throw in there and. And one of the things here is that if you think going back to the vehicles on the road, not all vehicles are made equal either because actually we don't really care how many vehicles pass a certain point. What we care about is how many people make it to their destination. Stuart Easton Yeah. No. So I was just gonna. I was just gonna throw in there and. And one of the things here is that if you think going back to the vehicles on the road, not all vehicles are made equal either because actually we don't really care how many vehicles pass a certain point. What we care about is how many people make it to their destination.
Speaker 5 Right. Speaker 1 And but so there's a huge difference between counting projects and counting business value that's delivered. So. So this curve is absolutely right. But overlaying on this is kind of saying, OK, well actually the ones if we're going to constrain ourselves with constraining ourselves with to the projects that add the most value, right and that's. Speaker 5 Right. Stuart Easton And but so there's a huge difference between counting projects and counting business value that's delivered. So. So this curve is absolutely right. But overlaying on this is kind of saying, OK, well actually the ones if we're going to constrain ourselves with constraining ourselves with to the projects that add the most value, right and that's.
Speaker 2 Beautiful. Mike Hannan Beautiful.
Speaker 5 Beautiful. Speaker 1 I'm not. I'm biased, obviously, but I think prioritization project prioritization, that's what it does, that's what. Speaker 5 Beautiful. Stuart Easton I'm not. I'm biased, obviously, but I think prioritization project prioritization, that's what it does, that's what.
Speaker 2 Yeah. Mike Hannan Yeah.
Speaker 1 I love to do. Stuart Easton I love to do.
Speaker 2 And in fact, you know, in the highway example that would be like a dedicated. Mike Hannan And in fact, you know, in the highway example that would be like a dedicated.
Speaker 2 Ah. Mike Hannan Ah.
Speaker 2 Lane for emergency vehicles or buses or, you know, some kind of alternate transportation that might actually get more people to the destinations. So right on. OK. So if you're thinking, OK, this is all nice Mike, but flow density. Mike Hannan Lane for emergency vehicles or buses or, you know, some kind of alternate transportation that might actually get more people to the destinations. So right on. OK. So if you're thinking, OK, this is all nice Mike, but flow density.
Yep. Yep.
Speaker 2 Curves don't really. Mike Hannan Curves don't really.
Speaker 2 Look like my reality. Can you show us? Mike Hannan Look like my reality. Can you show us?
Speaker 2 Something a bit. Mike Hannan Something a bit.
Speaker 2 Closer to a real project. Mike Hannan Closer to a real project.
Speaker 2 Portfolio scenario. Here's one is dramatically oversimplified and quite deliberately. Mike Hannan Portfolio scenario. Here's one is dramatically oversimplified and quite deliberately.
Speaker 2 But just go with me here just so. Mike Hannan But just go with me here just so.
Speaker 2 The concept is clear. Mike Hannan The concept is clear.
Speaker 2 Right. If we can knock. Mike Hannan Right. If we can knock.
Speaker 2 Out our a single project, say with. Mike Hannan Out our a single project, say with.
Speaker 2 Three resources which could be 3 different teams for three skill areas or something, not just three people. Mike Hannan Three resources which could be 3 different teams for three skill areas or something, not just three people.
Speaker 2 And and even if they work together a lot, let's just imagine they're it's in a highly specialized domain where we sort of have to do this sort of. Mike Hannan And and even if they work together a lot, let's just imagine they're it's in a highly specialized domain where we sort of have to do this sort of.
Speaker 2 Handoff. Mike Hannan Handoff.
Speaker 2 So it might be a a design build test kind of thing or you know something where we we may well work together to some degree across all those phases but. Mike Hannan So it might be a a design build test kind of thing or you know something where we we may well work together to some degree across all those phases but.
Speaker 2 Maybe high areas of specialization where we. Mike Hannan Maybe high areas of specialization where we.
Speaker 2 Where we have. Mike Hannan Where we have.
Speaker 2 And we can do a single project in seven weeks pretty reliably, and luckily we're not going to go out of business after just doing 1 project. We've got a few more teed up, so that's great. Nobody's gonna lay me off if we still have more projects coming down the pipe. Awesome. The problem is, how do we execute these three if they're all funded and approved on the same day? Mike Hannan And we can do a single project in seven weeks pretty reliably, and luckily we're not going to go out of business after just doing 1 project. We've got a few more teed up, so that's great. Nobody's gonna lay me off if we still have more projects coming down the pipe. Awesome. The problem is, how do we execute these three if they're all funded and approved on the same day?
Speaker 2 And yet we still only have the. Mike Hannan And yet we still only have the.
Speaker 2 Same three resources. Mike Hannan Same three resources.
Speaker 2 I argue that at best. Mike Hannan I argue that at best.
Speaker 2 It will look like this. Mike Hannan It will look like this.
Speaker 2 Which basically means resource A is going to jump. Mike Hannan Which basically means resource A is going to jump.
Speaker 2 And so will resource be social resource C so that the stakeholders on all three projects see at least something moving? Mike Hannan And so will resource be social resource C so that the stakeholders on all three projects see at least something moving?
Speaker 2 Right. I don't want to wait. Come on, get started. The sooner we start the soon. Mike Hannan Right. I don't want to wait. Come on, get started. The sooner we start the soon.
Speaker 2 We. Mike Hannan We.
Speaker 2 Finish. You know, we know how congested this highway is, so let's let's leave it. Leave the office earlier. It's the only way we're going. Mike Hannan Finish. You know, we know how congested this highway is, so let's let's leave it. Leave the office earlier. It's the only way we're going.
Speaker 2 To get home earlier, right? Mike Hannan To get home earlier, right?
Speaker 2 But look at what we've done when we design things this way. We introduce all this white space of. Mike Hannan But look at what we've done when we design things this way. We introduce all this white space of.
Speaker 2 But. Mike Hannan But.
Speaker 2 And I argue that it's not really the case that resource a. Mike Hannan And I argue that it's not really the case that resource a.
Speaker 2 Gets a whole. Speaker 2 Week to focus in on one task before switching. Mike Hannan Gets a whole. Mike Hannan Week to focus in on one task before switching.
Speaker 2 They're probably switching multiple times a day. Mike Hannan They're probably switching multiple times a day.
Speaker 2 And so the blue slivers become very thin and the white delay areas also become very thin. And it all sort of blurs in. Mike Hannan And so the blue slivers become very thin and the white delay areas also become very thin. And it all sort of blurs in.
Speaker 2 So it's harder to pinpoint the delays. Mike Hannan So it's harder to pinpoint the delays.
Speaker 2 But everything again is just sort of going slow. Of course, everyone's quite highly utilized in this scenario. Mike Hannan But everything again is just sort of going slow. Of course, everyone's quite highly utilized in this scenario.
Speaker 2 And if we're being measured on that then, then we'll probably want to stick with this approach. Mike Hannan And if we're being measured on that then, then we'll probably want to stick with this approach.
Speaker 2 But but we only got 3 done. Mike Hannan But but we only got 3 done.
Speaker 2 Right in 20 in 17 weeks. And so if you compare that scenario to if. Mike Hannan Right in 20 in 17 weeks. And so if you compare that scenario to if.
Speaker 3 We were to just. Speaker 2 Stagger the starts according to the bottleneck. Speaker 3 We were to just. Mike Hannan Stagger the starts according to the bottleneck.
Speaker 2 Resource. Mike Hannan Resource.
Speaker 2 Right. So kind of like the water flowing out. Mike Hannan Right. So kind of like the water flowing out.
Speaker 2 Of the bottle. Mike Hannan Of the bottle.
Speaker 2 We can have a more steady cadence of starts, a more effective drum beat. Mike Hannan We can have a more steady cadence of starts, a more effective drum beat.
Speaker 2 Right. That our our. Mike Hannan Right. That our our.
Speaker 2 Our value delivery cadence is more predictable and of course, even when we wait till week 7 to start that third project, it will finish four weeks earlier than if we had taken the. Mike Hannan Our value delivery cadence is more predictable and of course, even when we wait till week 7 to start that third project, it will finish four weeks earlier than if we had taken the.
Speaker 2 Faster. Mike Hannan Faster.
Which? Which?
Speaker 2 Ohh, by the way, I'm assuming the same task durations 2 weeks when we jump around and two weeks when we're focused. Mike Hannan Ohh, by the way, I'm assuming the same task durations 2 weeks when we jump around and two weeks when we're focused.
Speaker 2 I think we all know that when we're focused, things go much, much faster. So I didn't want to show resource a finishing their task in one week because you might think I was trying to. Mike Hannan I think we all know that when we're focused, things go much, much faster. So I didn't want to show resource a finishing their task in one week because you might think I was trying to.
Speaker 2 You know, have a slight of hand and trick you or something. Mike Hannan You know, have a slight of hand and trick you or something.
Speaker 2 And so even if there is no speed gained from being more focused. Mike Hannan And so even if there is no speed gained from being more focused.
Speaker 2 This is still a much higher flow rate of of value delivery, so much so that I can add a fourth project without adding any additional resources at all. And in fact I don't even have my yeah 2/3 of my resource pool 1/3 idle. Mike Hannan This is still a much higher flow rate of of value delivery, so much so that I can add a fourth project without adding any additional resources at all. And in fact I don't even have my yeah 2/3 of my resource pool 1/3 idle.
Speaker 2 So all of us smart project managers can probably get creative on ways to maybe get a fifth project done in 17 weeks. If we could just maybe cross train resources A&C to do a. Mike Hannan So all of us smart project managers can probably get creative on ways to maybe get a fifth project done in 17 weeks. If we could just maybe cross train resources A&C to do a.
Speaker 2 Little bit of B. Mike Hannan Little bit of B.
Speaker 2 'S work or have them ponder how the. Mike Hannan 'S work or have them ponder how the.
Speaker 2 Handoff might be a bit more effective. Mike Hannan Handoff might be a bit more effective.
Speaker 2 To kind of cut down resource fees cycle times. Mike Hannan To kind of cut down resource fees cycle times.
Speaker 2 From three weeks to. Mike Hannan From three weeks to.
Speaker 2 Two weeks and two days or. Mike Hannan Two weeks and two days or.
Speaker 2 Who knows, right? Something faster? Mike Hannan Who knows, right? Something faster?
Speaker 2 So think about that we could go from three projects in 17 weeks done to 5. Mike Hannan So think about that we could go from three projects in 17 weeks done to 5.
Speaker 2 Right. Four that I'm showing here. 5 If we get a little smarter. Oh, by the way, we're all going to be much more focused and faster. So I think it's going to be more like 6789. Mike Hannan Right. Four that I'm showing here. 5 If we get a little smarter. Oh, by the way, we're all going to be much more focused and faster. So I think it's going to be more like 6789.
Speaker 2 I have had some clients actually triple their their volume of completions in a single year just by doing this, I believe Ian here on the chat his. Mike Hannan I have had some clients actually triple their their volume of completions in a single year just by doing this, I believe Ian here on the chat his.
Speaker 2 Had similar experiences trying things like this. Mike Hannan Had similar experiences trying things like this.
Speaker 2 And again, if all we're doing is saying, look, the flow rate, right, the the rate of completions is what must be managed, right? That's the closest thing to value delivery and maybe we can do better than that and even have some projects prioritized when to go like somebody has to go first, might as well be the. Mike Hannan And again, if all we're doing is saying, look, the flow rate, right, the the rate of completions is what must be managed, right? That's the closest thing to value delivery and maybe we can do better than that and even have some projects prioritized when to go like somebody has to go first, might as well be the.
Speaker 2 Highest value 1. Mike Hannan Highest value 1.
Right. Right.
Speaker 2 So so having obviously prioritization in this game means whoever goes 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th. They know that once it's their turn, they're going to get all the right focus and fast execution. Mike Hannan So so having obviously prioritization in this game means whoever goes 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th. They know that once it's their turn, they're going to get all the right focus and fast execution.
Speaker 2 Anyway, and if they know that we had a healthy conversation and around the organization about what the true priorities are that are going to drive the most value, I understand why you put me as 6th or 7th instead of first or second. Mike Hannan Anyway, and if they know that we had a healthy conversation and around the organization about what the true priorities are that are going to drive the most value, I understand why you put me as 6th or 7th instead of first or second.
Speaker 2 I might not like it, but I understand the organization is trying to do its best for all of us as a whole, and so usually, you know, we go along with that as long. Mike Hannan I might not like it, but I understand the organization is trying to do its best for all of us as a whole, and so usually, you know, we go along with that as long.
Speaker 2 As we don't have to wait years. Mike Hannan As we don't have to wait years.
Before it's our. Before it's our.
Art. Speaker 2 Turn right we can. Art. Mike Hannan Turn right we can.
Speaker 2 Just start. Really get things moving kind of soon. Mike Hannan Just start. Really get things moving kind of soon.
Speaker 2 So there's a game people in the theory of constraints world know it as the bead game. Mike Hannan So there's a game people in the theory of constraints world know it as the bead game.
Speaker 2 I have designed and built an online game out of necessity. Mike Hannan I have designed and built an online game out of necessity.
Speaker 2 When the pandemic started right? Mike Hannan When the pandemic started right?
Speaker 2 In a on. Speaker 2 A mural board. Mike Hannan In a on. Mike Hannan A mural board.
Speaker 2 And have run some simulations, you know, gamified simulations using that. That's very similar game. It's just a game showing the difference between starting everything essentially at once and and instead choosing to stagger. Mike Hannan And have run some simulations, you know, gamified simulations using that. That's very similar game. It's just a game showing the difference between starting everything essentially at once and and instead choosing to stagger.
Speaker 1 Starts. Stuart Easton Starts.
Speaker 2 So you see, you know, round one on the bottom, everything took close to that's what, 360 seconds or so, right, a little less than that. So 6 minutes. Mike Hannan So you see, you know, round one on the bottom, everything took close to that's what, 360 seconds or so, right, a little less than that. So 6 minutes.
Speaker 2 Not quite to get all. Mike Hannan Not quite to get all.
Speaker 2 These. Speaker 2 Done and up top the those three projects got done in about half the time and I've been through in a surprise project #4. Mike Hannan These. Mike Hannan Done and up top the those three projects got done in about half the time and I've been through in a surprise project #4.
Speaker 2 To muddy the waters in the in the middle but telling everyone this is priority #4 start it as the fourth project. You know when you. Mike Hannan To muddy the waters in the in the middle but telling everyone this is priority #4 start it as the fourth project. You know when you.
Ready. Ready.
Speaker 2 And I might have a fifth and a 6th and the 7th, and it wouldn't have changed the the overall cadence at all. Mike Hannan And I might have a fifth and a 6th and the 7th, and it wouldn't have changed the the overall cadence at all.
Speaker 2 So I'll make everyone hear an offer. I've learned that in order for me to be successful as a coach and a consultant, I need effective champions inside organizations. So. So I figure why not invest in helping here is brave enough to try and step, step forward and be that change agent. Mike Hannan So I'll make everyone hear an offer. I've learned that in order for me to be successful as a coach and a consultant, I need effective champions inside organizations. So. So I figure why not invest in helping here is brave enough to try and step, step forward and be that change agent.
Speaker 2 That I'll not only give you this game for free, but I'll coach you on how to facilitate it. Mike Hannan That I'll not only give you this game for free, but I'll coach you on how to facilitate it.
Speaker 2 For your organization. Mike Hannan For your organization.
Speaker 2 And again, you don't ever have to hire me. You're not beholden to me in any way. Mike Hannan And again, you don't ever have to hire me. You're not beholden to me in any way.
Speaker 2 I just trust that. Mike Hannan I just trust that.
Speaker 2 If you know. Mike Hannan If you know.
Speaker 2 Enough of you might sort of get stuck or wonder what the best next move is. You might. You might call me as a helpful voice that might know a thing or two about this and. Mike Hannan Enough of you might sort of get stuck or wonder what the best next move is. You might. You might call me as a helpful voice that might know a thing or two about this and.
Speaker 2 You know, come, come help you someday in the future. Mike Hannan You know, come, come help you someday in the future.
Speaker 2 So I want to take a moment to say, alright, well, So what? Right. So this all sounds nice. Getting more done to getting the value delivery cadence up. Doing it according to a better set of clear priorities. Mike Hannan So I want to take a moment to say, alright, well, So what? Right. So this all sounds nice. Getting more done to getting the value delivery cadence up. Doing it according to a better set of clear priorities.
Speaker 2 But what's the real impact? Mike Hannan But what's the real impact?
Speaker 2 Right. And so I wanted to take the time to kind of show using a mathematical example, if you hate math, you can tune out for the next two minutes. Mike Hannan Right. And so I wanted to take the time to kind of show using a mathematical example, if you hate math, you can tune out for the next two minutes.
Speaker 2 If you like numbers, then this is for you. Mike Hannan If you like numbers, then this is for you.
Speaker 2 But if you take a baseline scenario of, well, my organization spends about 100 million bucks on projects every year just. Mike Hannan But if you take a baseline scenario of, well, my organization spends about 100 million bucks on projects every year just.
Speaker 2 To keep the math easy. Mike Hannan To keep the math easy.
Speaker 2 We got about 100 projects done per year. Each project on average might be worth, let's say 3,000,000. That's great. That means the whole portfolio is is delivering 300 million in value every year. Mike Hannan We got about 100 projects done per year. Each project on average might be worth, let's say 3,000,000. That's great. That means the whole portfolio is is delivering 300 million in value every year.
Speaker 2 Of course it. Mike Hannan Of course it.
Speaker 2 Costs 100 million, so we have to factor the cost in showing that, OK, well, the net return then is 200 million, right? Mike Hannan Costs 100 million, so we have to factor the cost in showing that, OK, well, the net return then is 200 million, right?
Speaker 2 Which is a 200% ROI. Not bad if if my investment portfolios did that well. Mike Hannan Which is a 200% ROI. Not bad if if my investment portfolios did that well.
Speaker 2 Year after year I'd. I'd be pretty thrilled. Mike Hannan Year after year I'd. I'd be pretty thrilled.
Speaker 2 But kindly do better. Mike Hannan But kindly do better.
Speaker 2 And so if we show like, what if we actually could improve our speed enough, which I think. Mike Hannan And so if we show like, what if we actually could improve our speed enough, which I think.
Speaker 2 Is easy to do. Speaker 2 When when we're focused? Mike Hannan Is easy to do. Mike Hannan When when we're focused?
Speaker 2 Apply staggering and then what would the actual ROI? Mike Hannan Apply staggering and then what would the actual ROI?
Speaker 2 Difference. Mike Hannan Difference.
Speaker 2 Right. Some showing scenario where where we can double our speed and now and and stagger right because we're more focused and triple the number of products we get done. Mike Hannan Right. Some showing scenario where where we can double our speed and now and and stagger right because we're more focused and triple the number of products we get done.
Speaker 2 Which you might you might not. Mike Hannan Which you might you might not.
Speaker 2 Believe me, but, but. Mike Hannan Believe me, but, but.
It but real. It but real.
Speaker 2 Organizations have actually achieved this, so trust me. Mike Hannan Organizations have actually achieved this, so trust me.
Speaker 2 That it it actually happen. Mike Hannan That it it actually happen.
Speaker 2 Friends. Mike Hannan Friends.
Speaker 2 Maybe not for everyone, but it certainly has happened. Mike Hannan Maybe not for everyone, but it certainly has happened.
Speaker 2 So OK, let's imagine every project is still worth about the same. So now we're getting $900 million in value. The net return is 800 and the ROI is 800%. So we have basically if you think well I. Mike Hannan So OK, let's imagine every project is still worth about the same. So now we're getting $900 million in value. The net return is 800 and the ROI is 800%. So we have basically if you think well I.
Speaker 2 Can double speed. Mike Hannan Can double speed.
Speaker 2 And if I stagger I can then also get triple the number of projects which actually can. Mike Hannan And if I stagger I can then also get triple the number of projects which actually can.
Speaker 2 Generate quadruple the ROI. Mike Hannan Generate quadruple the ROI.
Speaker 2 So even if you only think you might be able to generate a 10% speed improvement or a 20% or something like that, there's an amplifying effect here. Mike Hannan So even if you only think you might be able to generate a 10% speed improvement or a 20% or something like that, there's an amplifying effect here.
Speaker 2 Right, going twice as fast doesn't just deliver twice the value. Mike Hannan Right, going twice as fast doesn't just deliver twice the value.
Speaker 2 Right, going twice as fast can. Mike Hannan Right, going twice as fast can.
Speaker 2 Quadruple the value. Mike Hannan Quadruple the value.
Speaker 2 So again, if you're, if you're, if you learn how to speak in business terms on the value side of the equation, obviously the cost matters as. Mike Hannan So again, if you're, if you're, if you learn how to speak in business terms on the value side of the equation, obviously the cost matters as.
Speaker 2 Well. Mike Hannan Well.
Speaker 2 Any any investment manager will tell you that. Mike Hannan Any any investment manager will tell you that.
Speaker 2 Note the amplifying effect, and if you can show this to business people, you might actually get them more willing to try things like you know the staggered flow model. Mike Hannan Note the amplifying effect, and if you can show this to business people, you might actually get them more willing to try things like you know the staggered flow model.
Speaker 2 So how is easy to change these three things, right? I talked about the definitions. Well, that's the how is it to change our your own mind? Mike Hannan So how is easy to change these three things, right? I talked about the definitions. Well, that's the how is it to change our your own mind?
Speaker 2 For some of us, it's quite. Mike Hannan For some of us, it's quite.
Speaker 2 Simple for others, not so. Mike Hannan Simple for others, not so.
Speaker 2 Easy, but that's completely under our. Mike Hannan Easy, but that's completely under our.
Speaker 2 All KPIs. Again, most business people will want more business oriented KPIs. They don't like the typical on scope, on schedule, on budget type KPI's that most PMO's. Mike Hannan All KPIs. Again, most business people will want more business oriented KPIs. They don't like the typical on scope, on schedule, on budget type KPI's that most PMO's.
Speaker 2 Kind of start and finish with they they want to see something about the. Mike Hannan Kind of start and finish with they they want to see something about the.
Speaker 2 Cadence and value delivery. Mike Hannan Cadence and value delivery.
Speaker 2 And so then obviously if that's there, then managing flow again is some simple choices like how we manage the water in the bottle. Mike Hannan And so then obviously if that's there, then managing flow again is some simple choices like how we manage the water in the bottle.
Speaker 2 Right. When we how we stagger the starts. Mike Hannan Right. When we how we stagger the starts.
Speaker 2 Pretty simple drivers that can get us of some pretty dramatic improvement. So check, check and. Mike Hannan Pretty simple drivers that can get us of some pretty dramatic improvement. So check, check and.
Speaker 2 I thought it might be fun before we open it up for Q&A in 5 minutes or so to actually talk about these ideas in practice throughout history. Mike Hannan I thought it might be fun before we open it up for Q&A in 5 minutes or so to actually talk about these ideas in practice throughout history.
Speaker 2 To show that. Mike Hannan To show that.
Speaker 2 When we when we human beings, are at our best, just what we can accomplish. Mike Hannan When we when we human beings, are at our best, just what we can accomplish.
Speaker 2 And so I'm a big history buff. Hopefully some of you here are as well. Mike Hannan And so I'm a big history buff. Hopefully some of you here are as well.
Speaker 2 So many of you may know this, the story of. Mike Hannan So many of you may know this, the story of.
Speaker 2 The largest. Mike Hannan The largest.
Speaker 2 Sealift evacuation up until that time at Dunkirk in May of 1940, and here's a movie that was even made about a. Mike Hannan Sealift evacuation up until that time at Dunkirk in May of 1940, and here's a movie that was even made about a.
Speaker 2 Few years ago, if you happen to catch the movie. Mike Hannan Few years ago, if you happen to catch the movie.
Speaker 2 And bottom line is 339,000 British and French troops will pin down. Mike Hannan And bottom line is 339,000 British and French troops will pin down.
Speaker 2 At the edge. Mike Hannan At the edge.
Speaker 2 The western edge of the continent, after Blitzkrieg and German army had had chased them all the way there and in very short amount of time and just a few months into the war it looked. Mike Hannan The western edge of the continent, after Blitzkrieg and German army had had chased them all the way there and in very short amount of time and just a few months into the war it looked.
Speaker 2 Like it might already be lost. Mike Hannan Like it might already be lost.
Speaker 2 And all Hitler had to do was kind of go in for the kill and. And, you know, these aren't these two armies would have been completely annihilated. Mike Hannan And all Hitler had to do was kind of go in for the kill and. And, you know, these aren't these two armies would have been completely annihilated.
Speaker 2 Of course, luckily that didn't happen, but I thought it'd be fun to compare the challenges of Dunkirk with an even more daunting set of challenges. OK, so if you're not familiar with the details. Mike Hannan Of course, luckily that didn't happen, but I thought it'd be fun to compare the challenges of Dunkirk with an even more daunting set of challenges. OK, so if you're not familiar with the details.
Speaker 2 Yeah. I mentioned 339,000 people need to be rescued. Let's give you everyone here and an even bigger number of people. They even though it was a long time ago, they did have the CB radios in ways to communicate directly through the chains of command. So that was effective. Let's not give you that advantage at all. Mike Hannan Yeah. I mentioned 339,000 people need to be rescued. Let's give you everyone here and an even bigger number of people. They even though it was a long time ago, they did have the CB radios in ways to communicate directly through the chains of command. So that was effective. Let's not give you that advantage at all.
Speaker 2 For reasons historians still debate to this day, Hitler did not go in for the kill. He there was some weather issues and other reasons why he might have chosen to pause things, but that doesn't fully explain it. It's still sort. Mike Hannan For reasons historians still debate to this day, Hitler did not go in for the kill. He there was some weather issues and other reasons why he might have chosen to pause things, but that doesn't fully explain it. It's still sort.
Speaker 2 Of a mystery to a lot of. Mike Hannan Of a mystery to a lot of.
Speaker 2 People. Yes, there were still some skirmishes and a couple of planes flying over and doing reconnaissance and maybe even shooting at people. But for the most part, the attack was on hold. Let's assume you don't have that luxury either. Mike Hannan People. Yes, there were still some skirmishes and a couple of planes flying over and doing reconnaissance and maybe even shooting at people. But for the most part, the attack was on hold. Let's assume you don't have that luxury either.
Speaker 2 It was a nice clear day. They could see the rescuers coming. Let's imagine there's so much confusion and smoke and you know fire and dust and debris everywhere that you can't even see who's coming to rescue you if you're one of the people. Mike Hannan It was a nice clear day. They could see the rescuers coming. Let's imagine there's so much confusion and smoke and you know fire and dust and debris everywhere that you can't even see who's coming to rescue you if you're one of the people.
Speaker 2 Waiting for. Mike Hannan Waiting for.
Speaker 2 So you're not even sure if anyone's coming at all. It's also quite difficult to. Mike Hannan So you're not even sure if anyone's coming at all. It's also quite difficult to.
Speaker 2 Breathe. Mike Hannan Breathe.
Speaker 2 Right. Dunkirk had young fit battle ready soldiers. You have regular civilians. Mike Hannan Right. Dunkirk had young fit battle ready soldiers. You have regular civilians.
Yes. Yes.
Speaker 2 Of course, the docking space was their bottleneck, no question about it. Let's keep that scenario, but say it's an even bigger problem for you. Mike Hannan Of course, the docking space was their bottleneck, no question about it. Let's keep that scenario, but say it's an even bigger problem for you.
Speaker 2 Given the horrific experiences from World War One of some of the biological and chemical weapons that were deployed for the most part, World War 2 didn't see very much of that. Mike Hannan Given the horrific experiences from World War One of some of the biological and chemical weapons that were deployed for the most part, World War 2 didn't see very much of that.
Speaker 2 Let's again assume you don't have. Mike Hannan Let's again assume you don't have.
Speaker 2 That luxury, there's a very real. Mike Hannan That luxury, there's a very real.
Speaker 2 Threat of those weapons being used. Mike Hannan Threat of those weapons being used.
Speaker 2 And while Dunkirk was unprecedented in size, they pulled it off in nine days. Pretty impressive. Mike Hannan And while Dunkirk was unprecedented in size, they pulled it off in nine days. Pretty impressive.
Speaker 2 Again, let's imagine yours is even bigger, of course, but I'm only going to. Mike Hannan Again, let's imagine yours is even bigger, of course, but I'm only going to.
Speaker 2 Give you 9 hours. Mike Hannan Give you 9 hours.
Speaker 2 So I imagine many of you might be thinking like we get it, Mike, why do you have? Mike Hannan So I imagine many of you might be thinking like we get it, Mike, why do you have?
Speaker 2 To kind of go sew over the top. Mike Hannan To kind of go sew over the top.
Speaker 2 Right and create this ridiculous scenario. I will answer that question in a moment. First, I want you to see just how big the flow improvement has to. Mike Hannan Right and create this ridiculous scenario. I will answer that question in a moment. First, I want you to see just how big the flow improvement has to.
Speaker 3 Be. Speaker 3 Be.
Speaker 2 In order to pull off this even more daunting challenge that I've that I've set for us. Mike Hannan In order to pull off this even more daunting challenge that I've that I've set for us.
Speaker 2 Here. Mike Hannan Here.
Speaker 2 Right here was the flow rate and people rescued per hour Dunkirk. Mike Hannan Right here was the flow rate and people rescued per hour Dunkirk.
Speaker 2 Here's the flow rate you need to achieve that is a 35X improvement. Mike Hannan Here's the flow rate you need to achieve that is a 35X improvement.
Speaker 2 So who's up for this challenge? Mike Hannan So who's up for this challenge?
Speaker 1 Not used to it. Kind of scary that one. Stuart Easton Not used to it. Kind of scary that one.
Speaker 2 I don't know if I would have signed up for it either, but but wouldn't you believe that I didn't actually make up? Mike Hannan I don't know if I would have signed up for it either, but but wouldn't you believe that I didn't actually make up?
Speaker 2 The scenario it's. Speaker 2 Actually true, this scenario actually happened. Let me play a little video clip and you guys can see what I'm talking about. Mike Hannan The scenario it's. Mike Hannan Actually true, this scenario actually happened. Let me play a little video clip and you guys can see what I'm talking about.
Yep. Yep.
Speaker 1 Remember to turn up your volume mate. Stuart Easton Remember to turn up your volume mate.
Speaker 2 Got it. Mike Hannan Got it.
Speaker 1 I do feel away. Honored part of. Stuart Easton I do feel away. Honored part of.
Speaker 2 That I was calling. Mike Hannan That I was calling.
Speaker 5 It I was the greatest thing I ever did with. Speaker 5 It I was the greatest thing I ever did with.
Speaker 5 My life the greatest day that I've ever seen in all my boating. My life. Speaker 5 My life the greatest day that I've ever seen in all my boating. My life.
Speaker 5 On the water. Speaker 5 On the water.
Speaker 4 The great boat lift of 9/11 became the largest sea evacuation in his. Speaker 4 The great boat lift of 9/11 became the largest sea evacuation in his.
Speaker 4 Larger than the evacuation of. Speaker 4 Larger than the evacuation of.
Speaker 4 Dunkirk in World War 2. Speaker 4 Dunkirk in World War 2.
Speaker 4 Were 339,000 British and French soldiers. Speaker 4 Were 339,000 British and French soldiers.
Speaker 4 Were rescued over the course of nine days. Speaker 4 Were rescued over the course of nine days.
Speaker 4 911. Speaker 4 911.
Speaker 4 Nearly 500,000 civilians were rescued from Manhattan by boat. Speaker 4 Nearly 500,000 civilians were rescued from Manhattan by boat.
Speaker 4 It took less than 9 hours. Speaker 4 It took less than 9 hours.
Speaker 2 So I'm curious, I guess maybe we can start opening up the. Mike Hannan So I'm curious, I guess maybe we can start opening up the.
Speaker 2 The audio if people want to ask questions live, I'd have a couple more slides here to as we wrap up and and transition to Q&A. But I would love to hear from people like who knew about this story, who knew that this was my setup when I was creating my daunting scenario other than Stewart. Mike Hannan The audio if people want to ask questions live, I'd have a couple more slides here to as we wrap up and and transition to Q&A. But I would love to hear from people like who knew about this story, who knew that this was my setup when I was creating my daunting scenario other than Stewart.
Speaker 2 Again, I'll post a link to this video if you wanna watch the whole thing. This came out on the 10th anniversary of 911, so a little over 10 years ago now. Mike Hannan Again, I'll post a link to this video if you wanna watch the whole thing. This came out on the 10th anniversary of 911, so a little over 10 years ago now.
Speaker 2 You might have recognized the narrator's voice. That was Tom. Mike Hannan You might have recognized the narrator's voice. That was Tom.
Speaker 2 Hanks that. Mike Hannan Hanks that.
Speaker 2 The I actually had the the the the privilege and the pleasure to interview the Coast Guard captain, whose face was shown on the video, captain Michael Day. He's actually still in the coast. Mike Hannan The I actually had the the the the privilege and the pleasure to interview the Coast Guard captain, whose face was shown on the video, captain Michael Day. He's actually still in the coast.
Guard. Guard.
Speaker 2 And actually talked to him right around the 20th anniversary to see if he might want to kind of cope. Mike Hannan And actually talked to him right around the 20th anniversary to see if he might want to kind of cope.
Speaker 2 Zen. Mike Hannan Zen.
Speaker 2 Something like this with me and he actually said he's still having a difficult time. It's a it's an emotionally tough, tough thing for many of. Mike Hannan Something like this with me and he actually said he's still having a difficult time. It's a it's an emotionally tough, tough thing for many of.
Speaker 2 Us. Speaker 2 I'll add myself to that list, given that I had a brother that was, that was actually part of those who were, you know, the half a million. Mike Hannan Us. Mike Hannan I'll add myself to that list, given that I had a brother that was, that was actually part of those who were, you know, the half a million.
Speaker 2 Or so who were rescued. Mike Hannan Or so who were rescued.
Speaker 2 He didn't know that it was the largest sealift in history until, you know, until this 10th anniversary video came out. All right, Ian, you've seen. Mike Hannan He didn't know that it was the largest sealift in history until, you know, until this 10th anniversary video came out. All right, Ian, you've seen.
Speaker 2 You've seen me do this, OK? Mike Hannan You've seen me do this, OK?
Speaker 2 Fair enough. Mike Hannan Fair enough.
Speaker 2 So. Mike Hannan So.
Speaker 2 But I hope I I hope the. Mike Hannan But I hope I I hope the.
Speaker 2 The positive side of this the actual rescue. Mike Hannan The positive side of this the actual rescue.
Speaker 2 Can can inspire us, right? Obviously they had a whole lot more motivation and unity of purpose. Mike Hannan Can can inspire us, right? Obviously they had a whole lot more motivation and unity of purpose.
Speaker 2 And you know everyone really rallying to help each other going on that was not something we might not always see in in our day-to-day work. Mike Hannan And you know everyone really rallying to help each other going on that was not something we might not always see in in our day-to-day work.
Speaker 2 But boy, I bet a lot of people would love to have the kind of performance levels if we could get even a little. Mike Hannan But boy, I bet a lot of people would love to have the kind of performance levels if we could get even a little.
Speaker 2 Bit of that. Mike Hannan Bit of that.
Speaker 2 Unity of purpose, right? And a better strategy. Mike Hannan Unity of purpose, right? And a better strategy.
Speaker 2 To go forward, Ian, you got a question? Mike Hannan To go forward, Ian, you got a question?
Speaker 1 Yeah. So, so, so, folks, I've, I've given you all the ability to talk. So you just need to unmute yourself and you can ask questions here and off you go. Stuart Easton Yeah. So, so, so, folks, I've, I've given you all the ability to talk. So you just need to unmute yourself and you can ask questions here and off you go.
Speaker 3 I'm not. I'm not sure I had a question. I've I've but I also like some of the examples from history and and just almost on that map that you've got Mike of of Manhattan, is my construction related example of of what you can get if you manage the flow of execution? Speaker 3 I'm not. I'm not sure I had a question. I've I've but I also like some of the examples from history and and just almost on that map that you've got Mike of of Manhattan, is my construction related example of of what you can get if you manage the flow of execution?
Speaker 3 Work. Speaker 3 Work.
Speaker 3 And that's of course the speed with which the Empire State Building was built. Speaker 3 And that's of course the speed with which the Empire State Building was built.
Speaker 2 Yes. Mike Hannan Yes.
Speaker 3 Yeah, 410 days, which includes demolishing the Waldorf Astoria that was in the way. Speaker 3 Yeah, 410 days, which includes demolishing the Waldorf Astoria that was in the way.
Speaker 2 Yep. Speaker 3 About about 8-8 times faster than the Freedom Tower or #1 World Trade Center was built almost 90 years later. Mike Hannan Yep. Speaker 3 About about 8-8 times faster than the Freedom Tower or #1 World Trade Center was built almost 90 years later.
Speaker 2 Right on and it's not all just blaming, you know, environmental impact studies and those sorts of things which. Mike Hannan Right on and it's not all just blaming, you know, environmental impact studies and those sorts of things which.
Speaker 2 You could argue is. Mike Hannan You could argue is.
Speaker 2 Is an improvement. It may be worth taking the time to do I. I think in general once they were building in earnest, it was still far, far longer than the 400 odd days. Mike Hannan Is an improvement. It may be worth taking the time to do I. I think in general once they were building in earnest, it was still far, far longer than the 400 odd days.
Speaker 3 Oh yeah. Speaker 2 And then and they have better techniques to do it, better machinery, better approaches better. Speaker 3 Oh yeah. Mike Hannan And then and they have better techniques to do it, better machinery, better approaches better.
Speaker 2 You know, stronger materials etcetera, etcetera, so. Mike Hannan You know, stronger materials etcetera, etcetera, so.
Speaker 2 You can't. You know you can't. You can't blame you. Can't blame it on that. Mike Hannan You can't. You know you can't. You can't blame you. Can't blame it on that.
Speaker 1 So, so so I've I've got a question, Mike. And and Ian cause you know you've you've done some of this as well in the past. What what do you think is the biggest barrier to changing the thinking from from sort of the old world to this sort of KPI driven well prioritized flow, optimized world? Stuart Easton So, so so I've I've got a question, Mike. And and Ian cause you know you've you've done some of this as well in the past. What what do you think is the biggest barrier to changing the thinking from from sort of the old world to this sort of KPI driven well prioritized flow, optimized world?
Speaker 2 I really, I really think it's built into our definitions, which is why I start there. I think we've taught people to think in less ambitious ways. Mike Hannan I really, I really think it's built into our definitions, which is why I start there. I think we've taught people to think in less ambitious ways.
Speaker 2 Right. When we focus on things that have nothing to do with the flow of value. Mike Hannan Right. When we focus on things that have nothing to do with the flow of value.
Speaker 2 Right. And we're so heavily focused on the. Mike Hannan Right. And we're so heavily focused on the.
Speaker 2 Cost side of. Speaker 2 The equation we have terms like earned value management which which is and it can. It can be an effective method. Mike Hannan Cost side of. Mike Hannan The equation we have terms like earned value management which which is and it can. It can be an effective method.
Speaker 2 But but it's a misnomer. We we've named it wrong. It's it's only looking at the cost baseline of a project. It's not looking at the value side of the equation at all, even though the word value is right in the middle. Mike Hannan But but it's a misnomer. We we've named it wrong. It's it's only looking at the cost baseline of a project. It's not looking at the value side of the equation at all, even though the word value is right in the middle.
Speaker 2 Or as my first boss at NASA said it, it can tell you whether you're on on track on your project, but if your project is building a cement life vest, it's not. Mike Hannan Or as my first boss at NASA said it, it can tell you whether you're on on track on your project, but if your project is building a cement life vest, it's not.
Speaker 2 Going to tell. Mike Hannan Going to tell.
Speaker 2 You anything about the value of doing that? Mike Hannan You anything about the value of doing that?
So I thought. So I thought.
Speaker 2 That, that, that ties your questions to it ties right into what I what I want to finish with with this. Like, how did they do? Mike Hannan That, that, that ties your questions to it ties right into what I what I want to finish with with this. Like, how did they do?
Speaker 2 Right. Like that's an obvious, you know, curious question. How the heck did? Mike Hannan Right. Like that's an obvious, you know, curious question. How the heck did?
Speaker 2 They achieve a 30. Speaker 2 5X improvement and again they they didn't have to change their mindset from a cost. Mike Hannan They achieve a 30. Mike Hannan 5X improvement and again they they didn't have to change their mindset from a cost.
Speaker 2 Mentality to A to an outcome mentality. Everyone knew that we wanted to save as many people as possible as fast as possible. We didn't have to have that stated in a. Mike Hannan Mentality to A to an outcome mentality. Everyone knew that we wanted to save as many people as possible as fast as possible. We didn't have to have that stated in a.
Speaker 2 Charter document for us, right? Mike Hannan Charter document for us, right?
Speaker 2 It was immediately obvious and evident that especially if all these people were being cornered on the southern tip of Manhattan Island. Mike Hannan It was immediately obvious and evident that especially if all these people were being cornered on the southern tip of Manhattan Island.
Speaker 2 For a possible second wave of attack where chemical and biological weapons might have been dropped. Mike Hannan For a possible second wave of attack where chemical and biological weapons might have been dropped.
Speaker 2 Which, by the way, had happened not long before 9/11 with the Tokyo subway attacks, with the sarin gas right? So it was a reasonable expectation that this could have this could have. Mike Hannan Which, by the way, had happened not long before 9/11 with the Tokyo subway attacks, with the sarin gas right? So it was a reasonable expectation that this could have this could have.
Tax. Tax.
Speaker 2 Gotten a whole lot worse. Mike Hannan Gotten a whole lot worse.
Speaker 2 And so the sense of urgency was just massive. Mike Hannan And so the sense of urgency was just massive.
Speaker 2 And so when I interviewed Captain Michael Bay. Mike Hannan And so when I interviewed Captain Michael Bay.
Speaker 2 And I asked him how. Mike Hannan And I asked him how.
He did. It. He did. It.
Speaker 2 He kind of just said, well, it's kind of like the video shows we. Mike Hannan He kind of just said, well, it's kind of like the video shows we.
Speaker 2 Just got organized. Mike Hannan Just got organized.
Speaker 2 And I was like, and, you know, we had training on how to get organized in the time of crisis with our, you know, military training. OK, I was like. But do you realize you did something much more interesting beyond that and you and he was like, well, what? What are you talking about? I said, well, Can you imagine if when you called all available boats? Mike Hannan And I was like, and, you know, we had training on how to get organized in the time of crisis with our, you know, military training. OK, I was like. But do you realize you did something much more interesting beyond that and you and he was like, well, what? What are you talking about? I said, well, Can you imagine if when you called all available boats?
Speaker 2 In the area and and and ask them to go right to the Piers and rescue as many people as possible as fast as possible. Mike Hannan In the area and and and ask them to go right to the Piers and rescue as many people as possible as fast as possible.
Speaker 2 That would have likely created. Mike Hannan That would have likely created.
Speaker 2 A human catastrophe of unprecedented size, right? Mike Hannan A human catastrophe of unprecedented size, right?
Speaker 2 You would have. Speaker 2 Completely jammed up the actual flow of rescuing people. You would have thrown resources at the problem, but, but you wouldn't have given them the sea lanes to actually get their jobs. Mike Hannan You would have. Mike Hannan Completely jammed up the actual flow of rescuing people. You would have thrown resources at the problem, but, but you wouldn't have given them the sea lanes to actually get their jobs.
Speaker 2 Fun, right? And and he thought about it for a second. He goes Oh my God, you're right. This could have been a disaster. Mike Hannan Fun, right? And and he thought about it for a second. He goes Oh my God, you're right. This could have been a disaster.
Speaker 2 And then he thought about it further. And he goes. Mike Hannan And then he thought about it further. And he goes.
Speaker 2 You. Mike Hannan You.
Speaker 2 Know what I think? That's what you know. We never learned that lesson. And so when Katrina hurricane hit Louisiana in the the Gulf Coast of the US, again, the government threw resources at it, but not in a way that actually engineered. Mike Hannan Know what I think? That's what you know. We never learned that lesson. And so when Katrina hurricane hit Louisiana in the the Gulf Coast of the US, again, the government threw resources at it, but not in a way that actually engineered.
Speaker 2 Good outcomes. Mike Hannan Good outcomes.
Speaker 2 Right. It actually created a lot of bottlenecks of their own. So what he did, if you listen to videos, he told all the boats again, he has no theory of constraints training. He's not a flow expert, he's not a project management professional. He has, you know, no lean or 6 Sigma certification of any. Mike Hannan Right. It actually created a lot of bottlenecks of their own. So what he did, if you listen to videos, he told all the boats again, he has no theory of constraints training. He's not a flow expert, he's not a project management professional. He has, you know, no lean or 6 Sigma certification of any.
Speaker 2 Mine. Mike Hannan Mine.
Speaker 2 But he said all boats, please report. Mike Hannan But he said all boats, please report.
Speaker 2 To Governors Island. Mike Hannan To Governors Island.
Speaker 2 And what he did was he he he assembled massive amounts of excess capacity. Mike Hannan And what he did was he he he assembled massive amounts of excess capacity.
Speaker 2 And only sent them in for the rescue when he knew there would be docking space available to peers. Mike Hannan And only sent them in for the rescue when he knew there would be docking space available to peers.
Speaker 2 And as the cadence got faster and faster, he had more excess capacity to just send in more and more boats faster. Mike Hannan And as the cadence got faster and faster, he had more excess capacity to just send in more and more boats faster.
Speaker 2 And faster without. Mike Hannan And faster without.
Out. Out.
Speaker 2 Risking clogging things up. Mike Hannan Risking clogging things up.
Speaker 2 And he goes, wow, you're right. If I hadn't done that, this could have been a huge disaster. Said yeah, you basically. Mike Hannan And he goes, wow, you're right. If I hadn't done that, this could have been a huge disaster. Said yeah, you basically.
Speaker 2 Staggered your projects. Mike Hannan Staggered your projects.
Speaker 2 Right, each project being a boat full of people rescued. Mike Hannan Right, each project being a boat full of people rescued.
Speaker 2 And that's what made the whole difference on driving up flow. That's what enabled you to get creative on ways to get faster and faster in the 1st place, right? The the fact that you had a stable system that was designed for maximum outcomes. Mike Hannan And that's what made the whole difference on driving up flow. That's what enabled you to get creative on ways to get faster and faster in the 1st place, right? The the fact that you had a stable system that was designed for maximum outcomes.
Speaker 2 And not so worried about well, but we've got a bunch of boats just sitting there, idle, burning gas. That's. Mike Hannan And not so worried about well, but we've got a bunch of boats just sitting there, idle, burning gas. That's.
Speaker 2 A waste of resources. Mike Hannan A waste of resources.
Speaker 2 No, no. We might want that. Mike Hannan No, no. We might want that.
Speaker 2 Excess capacity. Mike Hannan Excess capacity.
Speaker 2 If our goal. Mike Hannan If our goal.
Speaker 2 Is not focused so much on the cost side of the equation, but, but more on the value side, right? Mike Hannan Is not focused so much on the cost side of the equation, but, but more on the value side, right?
Speaker 2 So, pretty neat. He didn't realize now to truth be told, the English Channel is quite a. Mike Hannan So, pretty neat. He didn't realize now to truth be told, the English Channel is quite a.
Speaker 2 Bit wider than. Mike Hannan Bit wider than.
Speaker 2 The Hudson River, so some of the comparisons aren't quite fair, but nonetheless, to get a half a million people rescued in nine hours is pretty unbelievable. Mike Hannan The Hudson River, so some of the comparisons aren't quite fair, but nonetheless, to get a half a million people rescued in nine hours is pretty unbelievable.
Speaker 1 Pretty amazing. Pretty amazing. So, Mike, there's a there's a question there from from Julie, who's had to drop off, but I'm going to give you a second to read that. Stuart Easton Pretty amazing. Pretty amazing. So, Mike, there's a there's a question there from from Julie, who's had to drop off, but I'm going to give you a second to read that.
Speaker 1 And and while you're while you're looking at that and yeah, so one of the one of the things is in in lots of flow situations like this projects and so forth. Stuart Easton And and while you're while you're looking at that and yeah, so one of the one of the things is in in lots of flow situations like this projects and so forth.
Speaker 1 It's it's true to that to go faster, slow down. Stuart Easton It's it's true to that to go faster, slow down.
Speaker 1 So there have been experiments, simulations in the natural experiments in areas of high foot traffic, right? If there's an exit, the fire exit or something. Stuart Easton So there have been experiments, simulations in the natural experiments in areas of high foot traffic, right? If there's an exit, the fire exit or something.
Speaker 1 You you know. Stuart Easton You you know.
Speaker 1 You you may see these sometimes that there's a barrier in front of the fire exit and you look at and you go, why on Earth would you put a barrier in front of the fire exit? And the answer is because it stops everyone converging on the fire exit at the same time. Stuart Easton You you may see these sometimes that there's a barrier in front of the fire exit and you look at and you go, why on Earth would you put a barrier in front of the fire exit? And the answer is because it stops everyone converging on the fire exit at the same time.
Speaker 1 And they have to flow around the barrier a little bit more slowly, which means you don't get the log jam in the door, and you can actually get people out. Stuart Easton And they have to flow around the barrier a little bit more slowly, which means you don't get the log jam in the door, and you can actually get people out.
Speaker 1 OK. Stuart Easton OK.
Speaker 1 So so this this idea of kind of just slowing down and and and, you know, theory constraints, right you can you you've got a constraint and you you maximize your your flow into that constraint. So you're making use of that and and it's not about maximizing how many people get to the door it's about maximizing how many people get. Stuart Easton So so this this idea of kind of just slowing down and and and, you know, theory constraints, right you can you you've got a constraint and you you maximize your your flow into that constraint. So you're making use of that and and it's not about maximizing how many people get to the door it's about maximizing how many people get.
Love it. Love it.
Speaker 1 Through the door, so slowing down to go faster is a very common thing in in kind of physics and flow mechanics. So anyway, you've had a chance to read Julia's question. Mike, any thoughts? Stuart Easton Through the door, so slowing down to go faster is a very common thing in in kind of physics and flow mechanics. So anyway, you've had a chance to read Julia's question. Mike, any thoughts?
Speaker 2 Yeah. And I'll compete with my cat, who just woke up. So sorry about the background noise. Mike Hannan Yeah. And I'll compete with my cat, who just woke up. So sorry about the background noise.
Speaker 2 There. Mike Hannan There.
Speaker 2 Yeah. So Julie makes the point that, you know, breaking things into smaller chops and having. Mike Hannan Yeah. So Julie makes the point that, you know, breaking things into smaller chops and having.
Speaker 2 Smaller granules of value delivery. Mike Hannan Smaller granules of value delivery.
Speaker 2 Can help things flow. I like to think of that, as you know. Is it easier to dump over a bucket of rocks or a bucket of sand? Mike Hannan Can help things flow. I like to think of that, as you know. Is it easier to dump over a bucket of rocks or a bucket of sand?
Speaker 2 Right. Is it easier to flow the rocks out of the bucket or the sand? It might actually be more weight. Mike Hannan Right. Is it easier to flow the rocks out of the bucket or the sand? It might actually be more weight.
Speaker 2 In sand, which means meaning more value but less likely to like land on your foot. Mike Hannan In sand, which means meaning more value but less likely to like land on your foot.
Speaker 2 You know that stuff? Mike Hannan You know that stuff?
Speaker 2 Easier to actually control its flow. Mike Hannan Easier to actually control its flow.
Speaker 2 I have if Julie. I don't know has a. Mike Hannan I have if Julie. I don't know has a.
Speaker 2 Has a recording she can watch. Mike Hannan Has a recording she can watch.
Whatever. Whatever.
Speaker 2 I have had the question, hey, if you set the KPI as the cadence value delivery or the number of completions, well people try and game the system by just making all the pieces smaller. Mike Hannan I have had the question, hey, if you set the KPI as the cadence value delivery or the number of completions, well people try and game the system by just making all the pieces smaller.
Speaker 2 So instead of 10 projects a year, we're getting 20. But it's really the same amount of work and the same amount of value we just. Mike Hannan So instead of 10 projects a year, we're getting 20. But it's really the same amount of work and the same amount of value we just.
Speaker 2 Cut every project in half. Mike Hannan Cut every project in half.
Speaker 2 And I and I say, well, yeah, sure. You can game the system that way, but even doing that enables more of the sand flowing. Mike Hannan And I and I say, well, yeah, sure. You can game the system that way, but even doing that enables more of the sand flowing.
Speaker 2 Out of the bucket. Mike Hannan Out of the bucket.
Speaker 2 Dynamic right? So even if you're even if people game the system, it could end up being still a much better flowing system. Mike Hannan Dynamic right? So even if you're even if people game the system, it could end up being still a much better flowing system.
Speaker 2 And I and I would say that that I had an organization that did this right, they were getting better at getting things smaller, not not to game the system, but they were just getting. Mike Hannan And I and I would say that that I had an organization that did this right, they were getting better at getting things smaller, not not to game the system, but they were just getting.
Speaker 2 They they were tightening scope on things and getting better definitions of minimum viable product and and trying to do things more incrementally. Mike Hannan They they were tightening scope on things and getting better definitions of minimum viable product and and trying to do things more incrementally.
Speaker 2 And so somebody said Ohh you're you're gaming it, you're not delivering more value, you just breaking everything smaller. What's the real value delivery they they actually had a way to measure that. Mike Hannan And so somebody said Ohh you're you're gaming it, you're not delivering more value, you just breaking everything smaller. What's the real value delivery they they actually had a way to measure that.
Speaker 2 And went back and had an independent third party. Apply those measures and realized that that they actually had delivered even more value per little chunk of work, even though the chunks were smaller, like smaller but more valuable. So kind of kind of a fascinating. Mike Hannan And went back and had an independent third party. Apply those measures and realized that that they actually had delivered even more value per little chunk of work, even though the chunks were smaller, like smaller but more valuable. So kind of kind of a fascinating.
Speaker 1 And kind of going back to your your flow chart thing earlier on, right? Yeah, there were two halves. There was the the the strategic intent portfolio level half and then there was the execution. Stuart Easton And kind of going back to your your flow chart thing earlier on, right? Yeah, there were two halves. There was the the the strategic intent portfolio level half and then there was the execution.
Speaker 1 So the flow is about the execution. Stuart Easton So the flow is about the execution.
Speaker 1 Right. But but actually when you, if you're doing the the that portfolio level piece right in the in, in particular the prioritization, you can actually measure the value of the business value of the project. So you don't. So you don't actually need you know, so you can count how many projects you're completing, but you can also add up the business value, you're. Stuart Easton Right. But but actually when you, if you're doing the the that portfolio level piece right in the in, in particular the prioritization, you can actually measure the value of the business value of the project. So you don't. So you don't actually need you know, so you can count how many projects you're completing, but you can also add up the business value, you're.
Speaker 1 During. Stuart Easton During.
Speaker 1 And that's actually the the, I would argue that's the only metric that matters. Every other metric is to help you maximise that metric the, the, the. Stuart Easton And that's actually the the, I would argue that's the only metric that matters. Every other metric is to help you maximise that metric the, the, the.
Speaker 2 Value. Mike Hannan Value.
Speaker 1 Right. So all the other metrics are about how do we make that number bigger, right. So the reason we prioritize is that we invest in the ones that deliver the most. Stuart Easton Right. So all the other metrics are about how do we make that number bigger, right. So the reason we prioritize is that we invest in the ones that deliver the most.
Speaker 1 Value per unit resource and that's why we prioritize. And the reason we work on flow is so we can deliver. Stuart Easton Value per unit resource and that's why we prioritize. And the reason we work on flow is so we can deliver.
Speaker 1 More units of work. Stuart Easton More units of work.
Speaker 1 Right, that delivers more value, but it's all about getting to that that maximizing the business. Stuart Easton Right, that delivers more value, but it's all about getting to that that maximizing the business.
Oh. Oh.
Speaker 2 Right on Lovett. Realizing we're pretty close to the end of time here, I I can still stick around up. Mike Hannan Right on Lovett. Realizing we're pretty close to the end of time here, I I can still stick around up.
Speaker 2 There's more questions. Mike Hannan There's more questions.
Speaker 2 I thought I'd just show a slide of sample results. This is not, you know, 9/11 sealift rescue type stuff. This is normal every day. Mike Hannan I thought I'd just show a slide of sample results. This is not, you know, 9/11 sealift rescue type stuff. This is normal every day.
Speaker 2 You know, work environment type stuff and then if you want to learn more, there are some things you can do in. Mike Hannan You know, work environment type stuff and then if you want to learn more, there are some things you can do in.
Speaker 2 Fact. Mike Hannan Fact.
Speaker 2 Many people in the software and IT space have probably read the Phoenix project that came out 2014 or thereabouts. Mike Hannan Many people in the software and IT space have probably read the Phoenix project that came out 2014 or thereabouts.
Speaker 2 But all these kind of get it sort of the same challenge of how to how to drive up the cadence and value? Mike Hannan But all these kind of get it sort of the same challenge of how to how to drive up the cadence and value?
Speaker 2 Delivery. Mike Hannan Delivery.
Speaker 2 Without without stressing people out or demanding overtime, or taking shortcuts, or all the other things we we typically get to. Mike Hannan Without without stressing people out or demanding overtime, or taking shortcuts, or all the other things we we typically get to.
Speaker 2 And I had shown my LinkedIn connect earlier. I think I already see a couple coming in and there's my e-mail and phone as well. Mike Hannan And I had shown my LinkedIn connect earlier. I think I already see a couple coming in and there's my e-mail and phone as well.
Speaker 1 Brilliant. So Mike, thank you very much and it's it's always fun having you on and. And as I said, there's always something really thought provoking a little and often a little bit contrarian as well. So I'm, I'm happy to say you didn't didn't disappoint. So thank thank you to everybody else who joined really appreciate your time. We will. Stuart Easton Brilliant. So Mike, thank you very much and it's it's always fun having you on and. And as I said, there's always something really thought provoking a little and often a little bit contrarian as well. So I'm, I'm happy to say you didn't didn't disappoint. So thank thank you to everybody else who joined really appreciate your time. We will.
Speaker 1 Be sending sending out a recording of of this webinar and Mike, I think if you if you give me the slides, we'll we'll. Stuart Easton Be sending sending out a recording of of this webinar and Mike, I think if you if you give me the slides, we'll we'll.
Speaker 1 Make sure they get to the people as well. Stuart Easton Make sure they get to the people as well.
Speaker 1 So thank you. Do reach out do reach out to Mike. You know how to reach us via our website cause that's where you want to sign up and I look forward to seeing you all again on on another webinar and to the few people who. Speaker 2 Fred on Stewart? Stuart Easton So thank you. Do reach out do reach out to Mike. You know how to reach us via our website cause that's where you want to sign up and I look forward to seeing you all again on on another webinar and to the few people who. Mike Hannan Fred on Stewart?
Speaker 1 Are. Stuart Easton Are.
Speaker 1 Actively talking to at the moment. Look forward to speaking with you guys soon as well, and Jonathan, I suspect you enjoyed the nautical theme today. Stuart Easton Actively talking to at the moment. Look forward to speaking with you guys soon as well, and Jonathan, I suspect you enjoyed the nautical theme today.
Speaker 1 Even given your role, so maybe we can catch up and tell me how things are going. Stuart Easton Even given your role, so maybe we can catch up and tell me how things are going.
Speaker 1 Take care guys. Stuart Easton Take care guys.
Speaker 2 Hi everyone. Audio file a.mp3Transcript Mike Hannan Hi everyone.