Mike um is is kind of VP transformation
at the American Planning Association now
when I first heard about the American
Planning Association I thought who who
are they what do they do never heard of
them turns out you guys are you guys are
something right Mike yeah we're kind of
uh I mean from Stuart from your
perspective I'd say we're sort of like
the rtpi of the states we're it's the
national membership organization uh for
urban planners and also members of the
community
who are interested in advancing issues
related to Transportation Urban Design
environmental planning and all kinds of
aspects of the built environment so it's
we represent an advocate for one of the
professions along with Architects
Landscape Architects who really make
communities what they are and so uh it's
an organization that's about a hundred
years old and a couple years ago when we
started the journey it was like a very
old organization with a very new CEO who
we were so excited to bring on and um we
really kicked off that process I don't
want to put the cart before the horse uh
but I think our new CEO back in 2019
definitely had a vision for how the
organization could could get work done
differently um and his leadership and
the support of the our board of
directors along with the CEO has really
made all this possible so Joel albizo is
the man's name who had I think
previously worked with Laura in other
organizations here in the states um and
I think he he was certainly the Catalyst
to start us on this journey but so I
I've been with the organization for for
a very long time I I was the leadership
director working with the volunteer
leaders and governance at all levels of
the
organization um and there an opportunity
arose and I kind of jumped at it it's
really been I don't want to get too far
along into the storytelling before we
introduce Laura but um it's been a great
great experience so far and it's been we
had a a colleague actually our CIO who's
the sort of old technology guy who who
told me in front of a staff meeting in
front of the whole team one day after I
had done a presentation about the work
we're doing he's like Mike you're so
brave to to try to learn new things at
your age and I was like oh Mark you were
going to pay for that one but yeah that
that's one of those kind of backhanded
compliments right
yeah excellent thank you Mike um so I'm
really delighted to have Mike here and I
I met Mike through Laura actually uh
Laura made the introduction very kindly
so um I imagine most people on the call
know who Laura barard is but she is
the the the queen of pmo land uh she
just is this inspiration for so many of
us um I know we we've been collaborating
with Laura for for several years now um
and our our our product would be
nothing like it is now without the
inspiration and V you know the
generosity of spirit of Laura sharing a
knowledge not just with us but with the
whole Community right so it's I'm really
excited I can't wait to see Laura in a
couple of weeks in person again um
yay and and will I love your comment
will was it will I want to be like Laura
when I grow up will does that mean that
you does that mean that you want to
obsess about which seat you sit on in
the plane which restaurant you eat in
which right is is that what you're
saying really all right all right so a
little background here by the way hi I'm
L Bernard I'm Chief impact driver for
pmo strategies if you don't know me and
if you don't please please come say hi
to me for sure because well one we're
going to be in all kinds of places like
Riad and I'm also all over LinkedIn um H
but uh the the deal is that it takes me
uh 20 probably about 30 hours total to
get from my house to Riad and so yes
when Stuart and I were talking about our
flights and everything I was like I've
got to be able to lay down somewhere so
that I can sleep either on the plane or
somewhere in a lounge because I can't
stay awake for 30 hours and then get on
stage uh multiple days in a row and
speak at the global project management
Forum in Riad so that's what we're
talking about and speaking of um Stuart
you're gonna get a chance to meet Don
Mahan at the at the global project
management Forum because she's gonna be
coming to speak and Don is here in the
audience to cheer you along Mike so um
shout out to Don we love you so much and
none of what we did with APA could have
been possible without dawn hand inand
with me by my side helping to make it
all happen so Don we love you so much I
don't want to put you on the spot by
pulling you up on the stage just in case
it's not a makeup day that's what I like
to say but here and we love you so much
um and uh she also has a book coming out
so I've talked about the impact engine
book with some of you but Mike you'll
have it you'll have both books hopefully
in your in your hands when Don and I
come to see you in next month and then
Stuart of course you've got some coming
on the way to you being shipped to you
so um anyway if you don't know the
impact engine book is coming soon it's
actually available for pre order now but
we haveen an off we're gonna do clubs
later on the bo I'm just saying we're
not we're not officially live yet so all
right let's rock and roll so so what
what we what we're here to talk about
right is um you know Mike's Journey so
uh you know as Laura said that you the
APA didn't necessarily have a whole lot
of a whole lot of infrastructure whole
lot of
capability uh at the start of this
journey and um uh so you know it's it's
going to be just a story Mike Mike's got
a couple of slides but really I think
it's going to be more of a conversation
hopefully right so so actually a really
nice place when we were in The Green
Room uh chatting before we started the
webinar Mike you were just telling me
about your your trip up to
Minnesota
um that might be a fun place to start
let's start at the end of the journey
and then we'll go back to the beginning
that's a great idea Stuart um I came in
last night from our a week-long
conference we had in Minneapolis
Minnesota which is you know you might
say hey Mike that's kind of a weird
conference venue for a big National
Organization we often go to other big
cities but our members because they're
planners they love to visit different
places and there's a a really compelling
uh planning story unfolding right now in
the City of Minneapolis related to
reform of zoning and doing things
differently and innovating in the way
local government and land use Works um
and I was telling Stuart that the sense
that I got of the new position and the
new kind of voice of the planning
movement in this country was was on full
display and the excitement and the the
kind of the Innovative position that the
organization has taken traditionally I
think APA would be kind of like there
used to be your father's Oldsmobile was
an old advertising slogan in the US
where it was sort of like the
traditional practice and tried andrue
Suburban status quo represented by the
organization and
today largely as a result in the outcome
of these strategic initiatives we've
been working on through the the pmo um
we we're in a position of really being
an innovator and a thought leader and
sort of driving the practice forward and
also um ensuring that that the value of
planning is recognized by elected
leaders that's what our members really
wanted I think part of the reason we we
have created the sdo or the pmo the way
we have is to align with what the
Strategic priorities of the board are
and I was telling Stuart you know at the
beginning of this journey I think okay
we want the board to be happy we want
the national leadership to recognize the
were really getting impact on the things
that matter most of them but what I
realized is not only did we do that we
made the board happy we aligned and were
moving in the direction that they wanted
to go but it also is really changing the
organization it's changing the way we're
perceived and it's creating tremendous
value for members who now have a really
clear story to tell about the value of
the work the profession does uh that's
compelling and that's relevant that's
getting recognized and so I think that
excitement in that weekl long event was
was evidence to me of the transformation
we that was brought about out through
the impact engine system that Laura
trained us on so that's really I think
if you want to show the slides we can
start at the beginning to kind of where
we yeah and and and you know I just I
just want to tease out something that
you know you said but I just want to
make this really really clear the
journey that that Mike and the the APA
has been on right hasn't just trans what
what Mike just said is it hasn't just
transformed the APA it's transformed an
entire industry yes right think about
that guys how often do you get the
chance to transform an entire industry
not often I've got goosebumps now Mike I
don't know what you see can you see this
good Lord um so so that that's that's
pretty amazing right and so yeah let's
let's jump into the slides because
because the the starting point for this
was a discussion we had um you know I
was talking about you
know the whole goal here is to increase
you know your ability to execute
strategy and I I kind of asked you a
question do you do you remember that
question yeah how how much more impact
have we had after implementing all this
stuff than before and I think initially
you said well has it doubled the impact
and I think that's really in a sense
hard to quantify because we went from
really not measuring impact on a regular
basis and just doing a bunch of stuff
and doing as much of the stuff as we
could um so now I think at least double
or 150% the impact because we can
describe it we can point to it you can
and and also see the results and feel
the results through the outcomes of
these initiatives uh so we were in a
position I think where it's a membership
organization it's led by volunteers
there are lots of sort of old school
political forces that I think generally
when we had a strategic process it would
be kind of Let's Make a big list of
everything we want to do and add and add
and add to that list and I think I've
been around as I said for quite some
time we would have a 144 items on the on
the two-year strategic plan uh and it
literally was impossible to ever see
what progress was being made we didn't
have any system for and those were just
like the wish list of Christmas
ornaments on the
tree uh we didn't have any way to
measure or tie to the the everyday work
the the ongoing other operations uh to
see where we were making the impact or
where we were making progress and I
think to the leadership over time that
was very frustrating because everyone
everyone we said yes to everything so
there was you know dozens of member
groups and volunteer leaders and
committees and councils and everyone is
sort of fighting for the same you know
modest sized piece of the pie and while
it's it's easy to say yes it's
frustrating I think over time that you
don't really see measurable progress and
and I think early in the conversations
we were having with Laura who who joined
us as a as an adviser and a partner in
all this she'd say well let's start with
the list of the projects you have going
on today and I said Laura there is no
such list I'll let me look around a
little bit let me try to pull together
what through conversations with
Executives and folks in management um
and there was no there was no one place
you could sort of look and and depending
on the definition uh kind of hunt and
Peck and say well this is kind of a
thing or this well we were talking about
this other thing but we had very very
poor visibility especially from the
executive level into what's happening
across all the different parts and it's
not that big of an organization it's
like a $2 million annual budget about 65
75 stacks
um but it's still a lot of stuff
happening at the volunteer and these
sort of component and chapter
levels for sure I just want to add
something there that that's where it
gets kind of hard you know he's saying
well I I'm not really sure because where
we started was you know I'm paraphrasing
such a hot mess that we wouldn't even be
able to tell you how if we've doubled
tripled fup Etc and that can be a
situation that a lot of people find
themselves in is they they can't even
tell you because there's so much chaos
and when that's the case then it say
then okay well let's get to the root
cause which is we've got so many things
going on we don't have a list nobody can
look at those things let's figure all
that out and then figure out how do we
even get to the list right baby steps
okay and so even if you can't measure
you know total hot mess Chaos versus
like double or triple throughput what
you can say is well I know that X
percentage of produ percentage of
projects weren't even actually finishing
on time or within budget or things like
that that's something you could measure
so you may not be able to say that
throughput number yet but a baby step
which you were able to start getting at
Mike which was all right like most of
our projects are not finishing on time
or most of our resources are being
spread across too many projects and so
you could get to some numbers there and
that started making the light bulbs go
off for people and so then when you
matured a little bit more then you could
say okay well now we've doubled or
tripled but it was probably you know
really you're probably at a quadruple at
this point because of what you put in
place to get that list prioritize and
all that and I think also for us the
ability to
really focus the resources and the
effort on the things we knew were
important because we learned through the
the prioritization process what were the
most important things so we you went
from a system of having not really much
in the way of definition to in the first
year or two having a really compact list
of four to five things that we we knew
we had to focus on and we resourced
appropriately and even we haven't really
talked much about the project management
discipline that we gained through the
training and coaching and support from
pmo strategies but that's really been
transformational I think you we were we
were so immature at just the ability to
plan out projects and think through
things and you know everybody was
working hard but it was as Laura said so
diffused and in so many different
systems and we didn't have a shared
language I think the shared language of
project management that we learned in
the last couple years through this
process across the team talking about 25
25 project managers and sponsors which
is about you know a third of the entire
organization now um there's sort of a
culture and and building that culture
and building that capability has been
huge as well just for the the to even
this is going to sound really naive but
the idea of like writing down the risks
ahead of time and coming up with a plan
to address those risks should they occur
countless times in the last couple years
that has been such a game Cher because
we never did it before you know I mean
maybe people would you know wake up in
the middle of the night worried about
something that was happening a lot but
the idea that You' document it and come
up with a plan to respond to it I've
just seen that um make life so much
easier and keep people uh so much more
mentally healthy because it's almost
like a security blanket you've got your
risk register and then you know what
you're going to do in any of these cases
and then the ability to execute on that
and like oh we knew this might happen
here's what we're going to do um has
really saved the day numerous times well
so that's that that's that's kind of an
interesting point Mike right just just
dig on that for a little bit what do it
what did it feel like working there
before and what does it feel like now
and the reason I picked up on that is
that this frankly this is what motivates
Laura and me to do what we do right um
so so tell me what did it feel like
before and what does it feel like now I
think there was just a a much
higher I'm trying to think there's
there's an analogy I used to always use
about meatballs like with that the 144
items on the old list it was like a
gigantic platter that was loaded with
way too many meatballs and as you knew
if you were going through the restaurant
that some of those meatballs are going
to fall off some of them are not some of
them are going to cross the finish line
some of them are not and it just I think
it kind of creates a a
less a low degree of confidence that
anything you're actually working on is
going to come to fruition or bear fruit
or work out and you kind of accept that
after a while and it becomes like part
of the culture like yeah maybe if it
works out it works out if it doesn't it
doesn't I think it's what we have
instead today is a real intense feeling
of satisfaction and confidence that when
we say we're going to do something we
have the ability to see it through and
do it and it's not a guessing game and
it's not a question of which meatballs
falls off at what point in the in the
journey um and that gives people a sense
of Pride and satisfaction in what
they're doing because they're confident
that they can they can sort of meet
those obligations and and also deliver
that value to the members which is
really the impact that when we have it
it's it's the experience of and there's
a couple other projects I'll talk about
how in addition to that sort of Outreach
campaign about the value of the
profession you know the world's changing
fast these days and our members like
everyone are sort of looking around and
seeing Ai and social uh sort of
polarization and political polarization
really disrupting their world and one of
the projects we have is is called um
upscaling planners so looking into the
future and we we have other ways of
doing this through the practice of
foresight and understanding what skills
members are going to need in the future
and and one of these strategic projects
it was created to um really identify the
gaps that exist today between the skills
that our members need and the skills
they have and then create education
around those things and so that has been
tremendously valuable for folks who are
like you know living living in you know
sort of a disrupted political
environment where their public meetings
are extremely cont enous and they've got
to deal with that well now we've got a
set of courses on Conflict Management
that gives our members these tools which
we were only able to develop as a result
I think of this the project to create
the methodology to understand what
skills are emerging same with AI we were
so far ahead of the curve um on AI and
big data and local government and giving
the members the tools they need to put
the sort of the use of those tools in
the proper framework to ensure that
they're not creating inequitable
outcomes and that they're able to adhere
to their professional life ethics and
use data responsibly so some of those
things again getting them to the impact
of everyday life for people who are
working in in the public sphere and
planning um none of those things would
have been possible without this approach
of the pmo and project
management I just want to comment on
something there and I just put it in the
chat for folks I think it's important to
note how much of Mike's conversation is
about the business problem and tying
project management solutions to the
business problem not the project
problems if that does that make sense to
everyone that's that's watching this he
he looks at here's the business problem
we have in the industry here's how the
work we're doing is impacting the
industry and he's running their strategy
delivery office their their version of a
pmo but he's taking the business focused
View and figuring out what business
problems need to get solved and then
using project management as the solution
it's it's the means to get to the end
which is solving the business problems
not the end in of itself and that's
where a lot of folks and I'm sure the
folks listening to this webinar can
appreciate that because they're here
because they've been listening to us
talk about these kind of things for a
while Stuart right but that's a really
important thing to remember not just for
all of you but for your project managers
the people working on your projects your
goal is to use the power of project
management to solve business problems
and always start with that business
problem in mind so just want to point
that out that I think that's a really
unique um perspective thanks for that
Laura because there there was a really
subtle thing that you said earlier Mike
I think you used a phrase you said
something like you know we discovered
this sort of small set of goals business
goals that we had right right through
the prioritization process so so that's
good the prioritization process is
working right but but you discovered
that's a really interesting word right
you discovered that tell me more about
that because you because that's what
lets you do what Laura just talked about
yeah I I think we and this kind of
relates to so I was thinking I keep
looking at the first bullet on this
rubber ducky slide about the the
foresight and the strategy system we've
been building and and that's you know
project management and the
prioritization are really just part of
this what we've created is really a
replicable uh intelligible annual cycle
of updating the strategy to stay current
and do that on an ongoing basis um and
the discovery process I guess in 2019 or
2020 right around the start of this
effort uh we came up with an envisioned
future for what we thought the the
organization the profession should look
like and then identified some some
obstacles and goals and I think I was
struck by how how clearly the the things
the big pillars of the strategy relate
to those barriers that exist you know
the whether it's a lack of you know
inability to stay up to date with skills
an obscure understanding of what the
profession the value of it is or a
perception that the planning has
contributed to social inequity in the
country and each of those things we've
now got a system for addressing those
those obstacles and pain points that's
preventing us from getting to this
Envision fi future and I don't know
maybe I'm naive I'm I'm pretty pretty
mature individual by in terms of
chronological age but I was like this
really worked it was it it felt like a
discovery to me that the system here so
you're not dreaming Mike right so so
there there there's a couple of cool
bits of research and people who join our
webinars will know that I whenever I can
I reach for research to validate what
our intuition is telling us right and so
there are a couple of really cool bits
of research that looked at the overall
performance of organizations
and and I I've seen I've seen this done
with government government agencies and
with private companies I haven't seen it
done with nonprofits but I've seen it in
those other two domains and so they're
looking at the overall performance of
the
organization and the degree of strategic
alignment of of what they were doing
with the organization and the
correlation between those two the The
nbody Who into statistics they they ran
a regression they got an R square of 08
so basically 80% of the variation right
in the data was explained by strategic
alignment now that implies kind of
implies that being able to align your
Investments and and that's not just
prioritization that's about Resource
Management it's about execution it's
about all those things but being able to
align your Investments with your
strategy is actually more important to
the outcome of the of the organization
than what the strategy is right that the
the link that you've been working on is
more important than the actual strategy
you could have been executing any
strategy but by executing it well right
you you've achieved some amazing things
that's so so that that feeling that you
have is absolutely born out in the in
the literature so that's that's
fantastic so so just sort of moving
moving on a little bit um so you've
talked about um and I'm looking at the
slide here I'm always drawn to any
bullet that talks about aligning work
with strategy and prioritization and
things like that
um uh for for obvious reasons right
that's that's the software that we sell
folks
um but it's
works thank you Laura but it's more than
that right because it's just buying
software isn't going to fix that process
so tell tell me about about your journey
and then we've got a couple of questions
from people so keep asking those
question folks I'm tracking them and I
will try and weave them into the into
the session um so so keep asking
question so so how did you kind of yeah
how how did you get through that process
what did that feel like who was well we
I think in in 2020 we but even before we
encountered transparent choice we had
tried like a little homegrown version of
it I went back and looked at the the
Excel sheet we used it was so quaint
that where we asked the members of the
board to to identify how what how much
value each of the 26 things we were
doing at the time were um and we you
know cooked up a score and a chart and
because of the pandemic was you know we
in full force we spring of 2020 we're
thinking we don't know what where
organizations's headed next and we
wanted to make sure we had if we needed
to do some cutbacks and to sort of
tighten things up and economize and
optimize uh where were the areas we
could focus on to eliminate programs and
so the executive team and the board had
a little experience with that uh so we
kind of knew the concept of the idea but
I think transparent Choice has been such
a great option for us because our
members are you know people who involve
themselves in Civic engagement and
getting impact in in input from the
public uh the idea of everyone having an
online tool where everyone can sort of
equally share their voice the planners
are very egalitarian sort of small D
Democratic they like everyone to be
involved in the process and so it was
appealing in that sense and I think the
first year we in 20201 when we used the
tool we had a very short list of
strategic um sort of options for
candidate projects and a very clear
short list of criteria uh but people
really took to it the board really loved
to see the outcomes and the The Waiting
of the criteria it all intuitively made
sense to them I think a couple of them
we've got an academic now on the board
who's really digging into the details he
is just fascinated by the he's got all
kinds of ideas and suggestions but it
was sort of a good fit uh culturally
with the organization and the executive
team as well um sort of this year for
the first time they have uh we we're
using the the efficient Frontier curve I
can't wait to see how that comes out
they're they're scoring a much longer
list of candidate projects that don't
just include the new strategic ones but
also all the existing big and medium and
small ticket stuff um uh but it's been
great and it and I think the I think in
the second year we we had used the tool
one time around and it was time to sort
of reup with transparent choice and I
was talking to our CFO about because
he's like what is this thing again why
are we doing this and I said Alex this
is the thing that has saved us hundreds
of thousands of dollars in an
international outreach program that
really wasn't bearing fruit or creating
much value and we had this sort of
reboot of our charitable Foundation
within the organization that we've been
working I don't want to say fruitlessly
but without a lot of results for a
number of years and those are the kinds
of pet projects where there may be one
or two uh super passionate advocates in
the leadership or in the board for
advancing those things and because they
sound like good things International
Outreach that's that's you know
spreading the message about good
planning that sounds like something
that's compelling and so it almost is
like uh it's hard to say no to but with
transparent Choice it was in black and
white you could see oh these are this
only got a 17 and the the top projects
are like value stores of like 80s and
90s and it was just so evident and as
soon as I Alex was like you're right we
did he okay the he signed the contract
immediately because it you don't think
unless you it's like we dodged a bullet
a Year's worth of spinning our wheels
and trying to come up with something new
for something that's really not going to
pay out very much in terms of benefit to
members that
was you that raises a really cool point
right so so Laura you talk a lot about
root cause analysis and you know one of
the most common root causes of
challenges in Project delivery is just
having too many projects right right so
so that comes down to prioritization
which is what Mike's talking about right
now and you know you one of the big
challenges that you often have as a pmo
leader is that powerful people will come
to you with projects that are great
projects but the question isn't is this
a good project the question is is this
the best project for that use of
resource right something that's
something I really want to comment on
that's really specific that this
software does is it removes the squeaky
wheel or the out voting right or the you
know the person making the most noise
right and that can be helpful on your
board that can be helpful with your
seite that can be helpful with your
Executives that you have looking across
this this portfolio of initiatives and
doing that prioritization is that it
felt good and when you're making
decisions based on feeling then it's not
going to you know you're you could be
working on all the wrong things but this
software specifically removes the
squeaky wheel syndrome and actually
makes it so that everybody has a a vote
and an equal voice and the ability to um
to actually use real criteria that
aligns with the goals of the
organization and make it easy to not
base it on feeling but on the priorities
on the focus on the Strategic goals and
be able to say this is not in alignment
with our goals and it's like Mike said
it's obvious so I think that's a really
big um a really
big uh unique value proposition with
this software that I think is important
to um to acknowledge because not every
software does that kind of thing it's
like oh yeah we've got prioritization
but this one actually makes it so that
using ahp which uh definitely go look it
up analytic hierarchy process talk about
it in the book shout out to steuart um
but it's really an important technique
for making sure that people are um
removing the the the drama the politics
and the squeaky wheels from the process
and just doing what makes sense based on
the priorities and strategic goals of
the organization based on criteria they
develop so everyone has their input to
the process and everyone is talking on
the same page with this is what matters
to us so anyway I just think it's a very
inclusive process which is really
important and it's something unique that
this process does that helps to make it
such that everyone feels like their
voice is heard and not I think it also I
would say Stuart I was thinking about
just the process itself and how it felt
in the first couple years I know that
just the criteria waiting part of it
itself where the the board is a is a
assigning value to the set of criteria
and then when we're reflecting it back
to them I felt that was really
reinforcing their own sort of cultural
values because they could see oh look
and they were like patting themselves on
the back I think in the best possible
way in a way that I support of like yes
we do think the long-term value is more
important than short-term profit and
we're willing to sacrifice some
viability to advance these key Mission
related objectives and they they they
could see it in the pie chart and they
were feeling it in the room and they're
like we did good job they're kind of
like you know what have our priorities
straight and it was like a feel-good
moment
just this feels like this feels like a
great time to to actually bring in
Tina's question uh which I'm just going
to scroll back up and find it Tina Tina
Tina Tina there you so what hurdles or
resistance did you have to overcome when
roring um uh and the flight you and
getting getting your arms around the
portfolio because you know as we said
earlier there there were probably
powerful people who had their pet
projects who were kind of going yeah you
want to do what to my project you want
to kill my baby really there was still
there was definitely there was that the
squeaky wheels on even the things that
were deemphasized you know because again
it's a an organization with a culture of
saying yes to everything I think in in
some ways we benefited just with the
timing and this isn't going to be
replicable for everybody but because the
pandemic was happening and because there
was so much disruption right around the
same time the idea of the board
announcing we're going to pause on all
these beloved but low value things for
the time being it was very
understandable that okay this is this is
related to circumstances and the the
world changing fast around us so that
addressed some of those things and I
think we still have uh folks from you
know because you know long-term leaders
in the organization who've been around
and long-term staff as well they're kind
of like the old way and the old system I
think for them to see the value of the
new things as the emerging they did at
this conference in Minneapolis uh
suddenly their faces light up they see o
this is you know this is a even better
outcome than we were getting from the
the old thing that I used to love I
think that is helpful in addressing it I
think the other yeah and laori you talk
about that right so so Tina's you the
heart Tina's question I think is uh is
probably there's probably a little bit
of a plea for help in there somewhere
right that the you know I'm a
pmo I know we could do better but how do
I get people pay attention so we can get
started right so so so you talk about
this a lot yes uh yeah so a lot of it
know now when we so when we bring our
clients on WE every client goes through
the same system that folks like WETA
that are part of the impact engine
system and our impact acceler Mastermind
our clients go through the exact same
process so when people say well but what
do you do with your clients the exact
same things that we teach in the impact
engine system and that you'll read about
in the book order is that in the book
the book it's the reason did you mention
did you mention there's a book coming
out listen I have been told by my
publicist that I bring the book up in
every fourth sentence so I think I'm
doing pretty good here so anyway but I
say that because you know a lot of
people like well like you know they need
a place to start an easy place to start
and that's what that's why we I wrote
the book it took me 10 years but we did
it but the reason I'm bringing that up
is that there the the the groundw the
foundation that we had to lay with Mike
and the team and the folks at APA was
understanding mindset shift which is
getting back to what you're asking
Stuart which is what how do I think
differently about the work we're doing
just like we're talking about solve
business problems not project problems
we're talking about driving Better
Business outcomes instead of focusing on
perfecting outputs right and so you know
yes Mike and the team because they were
able to take advantage of the chaos
happening during the early days of the
pandemic to say this is an easy way to
cut things out there was also a lot of
things that the pandemic brought about
that made things harder so I would say
it levels out right so yes you guys took
advantage of the opportunity to say okay
we're going to cut these things but
there has still been every year this
organization has to go back and say okay
well we have all this in Flight work we
have new priorities coming up how are we
going to address Tina's real question
which is how are we going to make all
that happen and I think that the secret
ingredient there for this organization
is that they're they're getting aligned
right from the start from the board to
the seite executives and and using like
transparent choice and Mike running the
strategy delivery office to drive real
Focus alignment Direction and get the
leaders to say the things that need to
be said right Mike gets them to say and
commit and Joel's fantastic about this
he says what needs to be said this is
important this is what we're going to do
this is how we're going to get to the
outcomes and not everybody listening
might have their executive support today
but that's why we teach you how to do
that in our process so that you can get
that support now came with some of those
special skills to the table but you know
but he still needed to okay you know
we've had to tell him to be a little
tougher right on on his Executives and
really hold them accountable right um
and make sure that they say well now we
said this now let's make sure that our
actions are in alignment with that
because you can't get the people to come
along unless you start with that you
know at the top so I think also Laura if
I could sorry go ahead Mike I was just
gonna say that in addition to everything
laur's talking about all great points I
think the the the structuring and and
setting up the system with lots of
training and support not just for the
people who are new to project management
and overwhelmed by that in addition to
all their operational stuff but for the
sponsors I think that's really been key
for the executive sponsors of these
projects to to understand their their
new this new kind of perspective and
this new role and have lots of coaching
and uh sort of ability for them to to
understand what it's going to be like
and what's different for them uh that's
really been huge in terms of what we've
been able to offer through pmo
strategies to help them fabulous so so
um Rachel just posted a thing so Rachel
for those of you who don't know Rachel
she worked forever at keyin where she
was the the engine behind the annual
report into the pmo she's now moved
across to pmo Squad where she's kind of
doing something similar they got a
report coming out tomorrow look for it
folks it's going to be great
and she's just dropped a little spoiler
in there that says that you know 93% of
pmos that don't have executive support
say Executives don't understand the
value of the pmo I would
suggest that perhaps some of that may
have something to do with the fact that
the way that you all talk about the pmo
and projects and everything else that
would be my guess now Laura and I have
talked about this ad nauseum in other
forums we're not going to do that right
now Laura we're not going to get
sidetracked I I'm holding it in I know I
know I know um so so so now we're in
danger of making this sound like all you
do is you fix project prioritization and
wonderful things happen but that's not
true right I want we sell project
prioritization software I want to be on
record saying right it's it's it is a
necessary but not sufficient condition
for Success right is to get
prioritization right so so tell us about
some of these other bullet points Mike
because you've got got some other stuff
in here that's the the alignment bits
about the prioritization and stuff but
you've got things about project
management capability and methodologies
God I hate methodologies ah right so so
tell me tell me about that how did did
you how did you approach that and how
did you avoid becoming the process
police well Laura's motto always is give
them what they need before give them
what they want want give them what they
want sorry I knew I was going to blow it
but so so adapting starting with the
pain points of the executive starting
with the only doing the things you need
to do first and because we were so uh im
as the pmo right as the pmo we were
addressing a small number of things we
we started with just like four strategic
initiatives in the first year the first
cohort of project managers and then
built on it from there so we didn't try
to Train everybody at once we didn't try
to kick off with I think it's the
sequencing that Mike hand teaches and
talks about we've been trying to get
better at that as well so we're not
biting off more than we could
chew um and adapting the methodology the
sort of the methodology that Don Mahan
is really Adept has an ongoing course on
project management that is sort of
streamlined for for we didn't learn all
like
184 methodologies we we sort of stripped
it down to what we needed to use um and
adapted and and really did it on this I
think they also Don and Laura they
learned you know you learn math on paper
before you get a calculator and computer
and spreadsheet so we were learning
project management on paper and and
figuring out what systems work for the
organization and the culture and the
work Styles and then creating all that
as a method as our
methodology before we ever got around to
talking to key in which we did and we've
started using that tool as well but
before we automated anything we we
wanted to figure out what worked for us
uh across the whole process so we really
ran project for two years before the
tool implementation started
up cool I want to come back I want to
come back to that in a second but first
I want to give a quick shout out to asok
um asok joins every single one of our
webinars he's he's virtually a member of
the transparent Choice team at this
point and he always has such great
comments to to add so a shock thank you
again for joining and and for
contributing we we really do appreciate
it um so Mike you said something really
important there that I think is a is a
crucial part of the Journey To Success
right which was about um figuring out
what's going to work for you before
diving into tools this is one of the big
mistakes that we see again and again
right I've been selling software in one
form or another for 30s something years
software people are really good at
saying buy my software and the world
will be perfect I got to tell you it
doesn't work like
that okay as a software vendor I am
telling you it doesn't work like that so
so Mike talk us talk us through a little
bit more about how you discovered what
would work for you and then eventually
how did that become starting to think
about you know turning that into tooling
and Automation and all those sorts of
things yeah I think the don't we
discover what worked for us uh it was
iterative we did have ongoing coaching
with Laura and Don so that even as the
process of building out the first year
projects and doing the planning for
those projects and we we would try we
use you know the project what's it
called
Microsoft's planner I want to say to do
work breakdown structures um I think
that figuring out the level of
complexity that was necessary uh and the
number of different tools because Don
will bring the full toolbox and we she
had a worksheet with like 47 different
tabs in it and we were realizing oh most
of these projects are only using like 14
or 11 of these of all the tabs in this
workbook so by actually working through
the process we figured well everybody
needs a racy chart everybody needs risk
like by actually doing the project work
and learning it together as we were
doing so in that first year um we kind
of just it it became apparent at the end
of the year whichever whichever
workbooks Pages were still blank at the
end of two years those are the ones
we're not using obviously in our culture
but um and also I think working
with you listening to the the PMS in the
co we would have regular monthly
meetings these sort of centers of
excellence where we you know they're
sharing their challenges they're sharing
so creating like Community within the
organization of folks who who are
acquiring this new discipline and really
listening and paying attention to what
they were saying and and and learning
them learning from each other in the
meeting and then Al also taking away
sort of the implications of how we may
need to adapt Things based on how it's
going with the with the lived experience
of those folks so that's been a
continual process over the last years um
and we do the same thing with the
sponsors they get together not not just
in their the governance meeting with the
executive team but among themselves and
you know finding those connections
between projects but also you know
what's working what's not working and
adapting as we went
along so so um hydren says ask an
interesting question here or interesting
observation without buying from the
execs they're not willing to renounce
certain decision Powers I need them on
board
right so again there's that little plea
for help but it it doesn't work like
that right like it's not that you one
day you walked into the office and you
said all aboard the Train's leaving the
station right absolutely it's about
moment building momentum so how did how
did that really play out because I think
you we've had Tina's question we've got
hyon's question that they're they're
scratching at the same pain right so how
did you address that I I think and
that's is part of Laura's methodology
you never no we're never not we're not
asking anybody to renounce any powers
they maintain the decision-making
Authority we are trying to understand
their needs so these in-depth interviews
we would do with each of the members of
the executive team to understand what
their problems are and and that's where
we started like what's the thing that is
bothering the CFO what's the thing that
the CEO wants to see come out of this
process and then starting with doing
those things first so that they and then
and using the language that they
describe the problem with the pain as
they describe it is the thing that's up
on my next slide to say this is what
we're going to be delivering and then to
do just a couple of those things and all
of a sudden their faces light up and
they say yeah this he really gets it
this guy gets it because you're
reflecting back to them the the things
that they're they're under their skin so
so so I heard several things there I
said so I heard first listen and seek
first to understand I think is you know
Wise Men once said seek first to
understand then use their language you'd
be amazed how much progress you can make
just by changing the language that you
use right Stuart I've been very
impressed with your some of your uh
Aristotelian references and some of
these other things I have a feeling
you're pretty well read young man over
there I'm impressed well I'm just
delighted you called me a young man
that's fantastic that's the result on my
part I I just want to comment that I
think that's really critical here and
that's where a lot of pmo people get it
wrong unfortunately and that's why they
have such an uphill battle is that
they're they're trying they go in they
they they go into the role and they say
oh yeah I see what's broken here there's
all this project management stuff that's
broken and so they start trying to solve
project management problems and they
start saying well we need this and we
need this and we need this and when they
talk to the executives they keep using
that same project management speak like
Rachel's saying here and so all the
executives here is that Charlie Brown
when adults talk thing right I have no
idea what you're talking about instead
when we when you do what Mike's talking
about here which is you go talk to the
executives and you ask them about their
pain in their words then you repeat
those words back to them um you know at
five-step communication framework for
those that are in the program you go
through that process to say okay here's
your pain here's our solution for it but
we're not going to geek out on the
solution a lot we're just going to
mention that we've got it and this is
the the outcome it'll drive the impact
will'll make on the organization and how
we'll know we're successful those when
you say that when you change your
language to talk about it like Mike's
talking about here then your Executives
aren't hearing that project management
speak coming at them and like oh great
you hear me you understand me you get my
problems I don't have to get the pmo
they Executives do not need to
understand what the pmo does the pmo
people need to understand what the
executives want solve that and then it's
so much easier to get the support that
you need you never have to spend a day
selling the value of the pmo because
they see what it does because it's
solving their
problems now that brilliant and there
was a third thing Mike that that you
that was in there somewhere that that
you said was or that you you kind of
skimmed over a little bit you jumped to
kind of the solution but I know that you
went through kind of root cause analysis
so there's problem root cause analysis
than solution right and so so that's
again that's something that I think uh
lots of pmos kind of skip over they they
they try and solve the proximal problem
right so why is my project failing
because I had you know because we didn't
have enough resources okay let's go buy
a resource management tool okay and hire
more people yeah and hire more people
right that's the prox that's that's the
first that's the first thing you see
when you ask why is it failing right so
you got to keep asking why why okay so
why do we have too many projects or too
few people okay why is that happening
and then so well because we've got too
many projects okay so why have we got
too many projects well because because
we can't prioritize why don't we
prioritize we don't actually know what
our goals
areh right and so so it's only when you
get to we don't actually know what the
goals are that you can start to say okay
well if we solve that right then we can
then the other stuff will just solve
itself right and for us Stuart there's
also something we haven't really talked
much at all about it but it it's an
element of our process that even gets us
to what are what are our goals which is
to looking out up and out into the world
to see what is coming down the pike this
is the foresight practice that our
research team does to kind of keep an
eye on you know through a big community
of of trend Scouts that meets on an
ongoing basis throughout the year and is
looking you know five to 10 year what
are those the trends that are emerging
social trends environmental political
technological that we think may have an
impact on the organization or on the
profession and how do we PR be prepared
for those we're not trying to predict
the future or look into a crystal ball
but to plan with the future so that we
recognize what are the emerging things
that we need to pay attention to As It
Gets closer and closer to the the but
often you'll that that's where that's
really that's the annual sort of up
renewal process but that was our
starting
point which of those emerging Trends are
are really going to impact us the most
that's how we got to elevating the voice
of planning because we said there is a
high level of distrust of expertise out
there in the world that's you can feel
it every day today how do what do we do
about that what is what are the
implications for the organization of
that distrust we are experts so well we
better come up with a story that's
compelling that's going to you know
bring folks to back to recognizing that
the value for them of our expertise
fabulous and if you're in this situation
where you're wondering how do I get the
executives to buy into my pmo right Mike
just used a little phrase there he
started talking about political
economical social right so if you don't
know what pestl analysis
is right then you're not speaking the
language of
Executives if you don't know
uh you know if you don't speak that
language then how can they take you
seriously because you're not solving
their problems so you know it's just
keeps this just keeps popping up again
and again and again a big part of this
journey is about
upskilling yourself to be that interface
between the the Strategic layer of the
business and the execution layer of the
business um now I'm conscious that we're
going to smash into the the buffers at
the end of the the 1 hour tra track here
um so uh so Mike should we should we
move on and talk a little bit about the
the future sure I think this is it's
like that you can't quite see the
Horizon in this image here that's what
it feels like I think Laura's system is
and I I used to tell people it used to
just scare the heck out of me that you
have 90day cycles and continually
getting better and better I was like I
don't know if I can do that like can I
can I re can we you know get better
month after month year after year but
that is the journey we're on and so I
think our our goal for this year is to
achieve level three I think in maturity
of the pmo uh and and really uh enhance
and get better we were we've been using
kein since last fall um but to get a
couple final Aira integration I think we
still want want to do with
Keen but get that all the automation
fully integrated into the budgeting and
planning resourcing process um and then
also for us frankly it's been a big
challenge of measure getting
creating project Charters with the
appropriate measurements in mind and I
think for us because so many of the
things we do are not just I mean the ROI
is not just a dollar amount of Revenue
increase for a particular program but
it's really about like longer term
outcomes that are on an organizational
scale and there are things like that say
for instance that elected officials have
a better understanding of the value of
planning that's it's hard it's a
challenge for the teams to nail down
those kinds of outcomes uh as measurable
quantifiable things but that's what Don
and Laura have really been helping us
with to think through those kinds of
things um and then also I think more
sophisticated use of prioritization
tools at this meeting um in we were at
last week one of our board members who's
an academic was asking me well Mike what
about for like nonlinear change in uh
particular crit I was like oh don't this
nonlinear okay so we're going to have to
learn and work with you and Dan to to
accommodate all these creative ideas for
how to use the tools
uh there and I think continuing to get
that uh measurable impact with members
and stakeholders I think they're feeling
it now and I think there's another thing
that Laura always talks about is sort of
the pull into the the pmo that the idea
that people are increasingly
understanding within the organization
that if you want to do something
different if you want to make change in
the organization the way to do that is
to think about it in terms of projects
and Charters and how do we if we want to
be if we want to affect change in the
organization we want to align to the the
direction the organization's going that
project management is a skill to have
you that's what that's you need to be
able to use that uh vocabulary and
mindset if you want to get where you
want to be within the organization so we
have like you know people beating down
the door to to to get involved in the
process so that's been really fun too
yeah I I just want to make one comment
for anybody that's got the yeah but
monster crawling up on their shoulder
right now and saying yeah but they had
all these things they had pmo strategies
they had Don's am amazing training they
had all these things but that's not the
case that's not where they started and
you know they started it look at look at
what we're talking about here they're
talking about getting to like a level
three of maturity in project management
they've doubled tripled quadrupled their
throughput and their impact and I would
say the way their their members feel now
is drastically different and they did
that with starting from zero Mike had no
project management experience the team
of project managers and sponsors had
never been formally trained in project
management they didn't have much in the
way templates tools process it wasn't
about that it was about doing the right
things in the right order with the right
focus and that's what Mike and his team
uh learn through the impact engine
system but it's really just simple you
don't have to you can right Rachel
you're solving business problems and
when you do that you you don't need a
bunch of fancy tools and process to
start just start we never let them even
talk about tools until they were much
further along in the process of just
understanding what are the business
problems we're solving how do we want to
solve them here process first then tools
so if if you know if Mike and his team
can do it you don't you don't have to
have pmo strategies by your side
definitely helps but you don't have to
have us by your side to do this you can
start from nothing and get where you're
trying to go it's just a matter of
Shifting the focus and the mindset and
and and and I've got to say you can get
a lot of insight from from Laura's
podcasts from uh you know from some of
our webinars from you know some of our
other partners do this kind of stuff as
well right so there's a lot of
information out there just make sure you
pick the right information because not
everybody thinks this way but you know I
I have to say that when you put this
when you put that value at the heart of
everything you do right I I've just seen
these kind of results again and again
that story might be you told about the
how did the feel before and after you
know Laura you and I have done
interviews with joint customers where
they said God I wanted to quit
and now I can't wait to get into the
office right yeah um you know and it's
it's not it's not because we' got magic
software that makes you feel good it's
not because Laura has a bag full of
fairy dust that she sprinkles on people
might have that it's it's it's just you
know exactly there's just a simple
process you if you do these things good
things will
happen business problems go help your
business leader solve problems
absolutely so so a good place to start
we we are pretty pretty much top of the
hour folks so apologies if we didn't get
to to everything um oh there you go
Rachel's got a fairy dust out um uh if
if you want to get started this QR code
just give it a give it a scan um we'll
we'll send a link as well in the
followup email uh but this QR code if
you scan that there's a bunch of
information to help you get started
right with with these
ideas um uh and uh uh and there's you
know a bunch of stuff this is if you
want to go take take a look at the APA
I'm I'm going to leave this here for a
few seconds so you can be snapping away
uh this is them you want to go talk to
Laura and the team the QR code on the
right is the one for you um so so we're
all QR out at this point um before I
before I do the obligatory thank yous um
uh just very quickly there's a few other
events coming up that I think quite
quite notable um first one Laura and I
yesterday recorded this podcast that's
coming out on the 28th where we're going
to be talking about Ai and portfolio
management um I'm really hoping that
Laura you leave some of the bloopers in
because we were rolling on the floor
laughing doing this it was so much fun
oh now now I got to hear this yeah you
should you know the unedited
version I've known Laura for I don't
know how many years now right and she
she did the intro she's like listen yeah
I want to introduce my good friend
Stuart what you what you name sometimes
the mouth breaks right it's part of
Being Human absolutely uh and then and
then next month we're we're going to be
I'm so excited because we're going to be
doing a little bit of a reveal on
Laura's book um giving you all a little
sneaky peeky Laura's going to come on
tell us all about it so be there or be
square um you'll see it coming out in
our newsletter and things like that and
um then of course we you we we we have
our monthly demo webinars if you're
intrigued your mic keeps talking about
doing prioritization Laura talked about
our software if you want to see what it
looks like sign up for the live webinar
and we'll we'll walk you through it um
so with that being said um first of all
Mike thank you I was gonna say steart
thank you for inviting me this has
really been so much fun I appreciate it
um it it's it's so
Laura and I do the do the speaking
circuit quite a bit right and and we we
get so much feedback from people I know
we're just sitting here talking to a
screen right but there are people on the
other side of that screen and they get
so much value from sessions like this
Mike so on on behalf of everybody thank
you very much for sharing it's it's it's
always feels like it's a risky thing to
do to open yourself up so I'm I'm
thrilled to be part of it thanks again
so thank you Laura thank you
for joining us and contributing uh it's
always great to have you on uh thank you
to Rachel a shock and Dawn and everyone
else who's been in the chat doing stuff
uh that's it's always great when you
guys contribute as well uh with
questions and comments and your own
Insight always makes these sessions much
better so uh so thank you very much I'm
just going to jump back uh to the to the
QR codes there for you guys I'm going to
leave that there for a few seconds so
anyone who wants to contact you guys can
grab that just grab a screenshot I just
want to share something um about Mike uh
Mike first of all you know Don and I are
incredibly proud of you and the whole
APA team and you are you you motivate
and Inspire us to do really big things
and really hard things to help all of
you and we're just so proud of you and
also uh little shout out to the fact
that Mike was written up in an industry
trade magazine for you know this new
role called the strategy delivery office
leader uh which is which came about
because we let Mike's CEO and seet
Executives name the pmo and they didn't
call it project management office they
said well what is it we're trying to
solve here and we guided them through a
discuss discussion and they said yeah
we're trying to deliver our strategy
let's call it the strategy delivery
office and then Mike got a lot of air
time in his industry for this new role
that is Making Waves in the community
for really helping organizations Thrive
so huge shout out to you Mike we're
incredibly proud of you oh thank you
thank you so much l yeah I love that I
can feel the glow to your face from here
just we we embarrass him sometimes we're
so I know it's very embarrassing but
than excellent so thank you everybody
for joining and uh I hope to see you all
again on the next webinar