thank you for having me always love
doing these uh my name is Louise Gardner
I'm the founder and managing director of
pledge Consulting we are a Sydney based
uh specialist consultancy that
predominantly focuses uh on helping
organizations uh build and deliver
better pmos pmo related services and
build project management capability
generally um we work nationally across
Australia indeed um around APAC as well
actually um
uh and as you might tell from the accent
I'm not a native Australian uh I uh
spent the first 28 years of my life in
in the northwest of England I'm from
Liverpool so I'm uh very keen to to see
some Northerners appear in that chat box
as well as the antip and you you just
happened to say that as I noticed Helen
who is from Yorkshire so so Helen can
you can you give us a thumbs up if you
think that Louise grew up on the wrong
side of
the um and and you know what I'm
inspired now because we got people from
all around the world here we've got
people from uh from Botswana some really
exotic places from Lagos Lagos and
Nigeria from Botswana Minnesota right
doesn't get more more exotic than
Minnesota so what I'd love you all to do
in the chat as well is just tell us how
you say hello locally so so Helen I'm
going to say a up for as your I I grew
up in Yorkshire as well so a up from
Yorkshire and uh let us know how you say
hello locally we got to H
got I remember my my times in in Texas
howy howy there you go
there fantastic there you go we're
getting some good ones in here um so
Pedro would you would you I I
interrupted you Louise were you finished
no I was just goingon to say it looks
like Helen with me um on the Liverpool
thing as she worked in Liverpool for
several years so our greeting would be
all right girl all right girl I'm not
I'm back in Australia I'm not quite
sounding quite as Scout as I did last
week
but very good Pedro would you like to
introduce yourself
sir yes thanks to for invite me to this
meeting and to joined with Lis Garner a
relevant expert in Australia and you
with a long career in UK and Australia
I'm Pedro Balsa I'm the managing partner
of liman liman is a consultan in project
management our speciality is the full
life cycle of the projects from so we
cover the proposal phase from a b idea
of somebody having an idea to make maybe
a a rway Crossing all Australia to the
end of final execution and sometimes
even the So-Cal concession so sometimes
the project span beyond the completion
of
the
project I have been working in maybe 21
22 countries now maybe more and at
certain point in
time I was not so
proud having an account of all the
places
and what I'm more interested is in the
ER personally is in the value and the
people to the value is achieved with the
people there is
no no other way so the social aspects of
a project
management cool excellent thank you so
so you you started off with people so
again get ready to jump into chat
because I'm going to throw some some
stuff at you so the the the topic
tonight is change is not a choice but it
is a challenge
so again fingers on keyboards if you
would um just tell me are you happy or
sad right so is change a good thing that
gets you excited or is it something that
you think is just a pain and you wish it
would go away and it's making your life
difficult so happy or sad little smiley
faces in you go um and while we do that
uh we we've got some nice smiley faces
here this is good lots of smiley faces
loving it so uh so we've got people who
are enjoying change and are excited by
it so so my first question uh Pedro
let's let's start with you is is about
you what what's driving the change
because it does feel like it's just
getting faster and faster and faster so
what are some of the things that are
kind of driving this what's some of the
context here well the context is the
So-Cal project economy which is a coner
not invited but fostered by the project
management
Institute what the project management
means or project economy means it's very
simple in the past it's common that you
run a bakery you go to your Bakery open
the gate bake the cakes sell the cakes
close your your bakery
tomorrow open the door
bake the cakes the same
cakes what happen now even for a bakery
that the recipes are too
fatty so we need to change from vean we
need do you have any a
suer
components do you have vegetarian so you
need to change even even very very let's
say a old fashion business need to ad to
the change what this change means or
what the project management provide and
structure for the change and something
that we H hear very often in Texas if
you don't put a deadline will never ever
happen say I need to lose weight okay I
need to lose 10 kilos in one year it's
not L weight in general thir after five
years you know not only have not lose
any kilo but you are five Kos
f h and what the um aspect for the
people of the the difficulty for the
people people has puted a smiling face
but if you go to the studies H we ran
there are several studies about if
people like or hate
change H all concour that the people in
general
terms are more resistant to change
than um
in favor of the change so in in general
terms people suffer with the
change what means for the people that
they are a instead of having a a role
for all your life you need to go to a
project the project end and then you
need to go to the project and the
project ends and this is a significant
change in how the people a work in the
companies so so Louise are you a are you
a smiley face or are you a grumpy face
well I'm a you know by the necessity of
what we do I think we can only be a
smiley face can't we um yeah look I I
agree with Pedro 100% I think the world
has never changed faster than it does
right now and I'm sure I used to say
this to our people and our customers
before Co I feel like in the
last you know I'm going to talk about
the before times a little bit so
pre-2020 I think you know the rate of
organizational change was greater than
we'd ever seen it before up to that
point and then um Co happens and what we
see since then is it going even faster
if that was possible uh and it it seems
it is possible you know I think uh you
know I think preco I I I used to say
that on average our customers were going
through organizational restructures
about you know every two and a half to
three years that's 12 to 18 months
now organ large organizations and
government agencies who are
predominantly our customer base what we
observe is that they are in a almost
continual cycle of change so
unfortunately the grumpy faed people
have got a problem um because this is
something that we just have to deal with
um like like it or not it's the way the
world is now yeah that's that's a really
good that's a really good point I think
it's it's it's great to sort of be a
little introspective and ask yourself
how do I feel about this but at the end
of the day it's happening guys whe
whether you want it to or not it's
happening so so you can um my my my
16-year-old son I have twin boys and uh
he came to me the other day Dad he said
I've discovered this amazing Secret
online to happiness I said oh what's
what's what's that and and then and it
was basically you know uh I forget who
who the quote was from but it was
basically
um you know give me the give me the the
the patience to to to live through
things I can't change give me the the uh
the the the energy to change the things
I can change and the wisdom to know the
difference between the two right so the
things that you things that you uh that
you know you can change and you can get
out there and do it go go change it
right but you this is a quote from San
ignio who is the Spanish f
ofas who is yeah do you know I've seen
it attributed to several people Pedro so
I'm not going to get into a fight over
that you can have that for the span
Spanish for the Spanish speakers we'll
give you that one one nil to Spain uh
oh we'll see what the score is by the
end so so change is happening and here's
sort of what I'd love to try and
understand is um you know so change is
happening because organizations goals
have have moved right they've got goals
they're trying to achieve them so what
what's the role of the pmo what should
the role of the pmo be in in making
change
happen
Pedro yeah well the role of the pmo is
to join the business with the projects
since uh the component of business or
investment is higher and the component
of routinary
keep the likes on a part of the company
has less resources has
less money available that means the pmo
play a central role in the change if you
would like to make more projects if you
like to change more and faster as we
stated very
clearly H we need a a better or a better
connection du to the projects are EX
uted in order to achieve value and who
knows where the value is the
business in unless you run a
construction company where the value is
to to
build things and then somebody PID you
for doing that okay in this case the the
the value is in the deliverables itself
or themselves but for the B most of the
companies has projects in order to
provide certain new future new
characteristics new process or new
Machinery to produce chemicals or Pharma
or sell more or so in order to do that
we need to fully understand ER the
business goals that's why I always say
that I'm being a pmo Consultants maybe
something which is could be pered
against my business but I always say
that the pmo head the pmo manager should
be somebody from the company could not
this Ro could not be assigned to an
external maybe all the other roles could
be done but the key the key role of the
of the pmo manager pmo head or whoever
or whatever you would like to name it is
to understand the company and how it
what is possible what is not so possible
what this cevel executive like and what
is other like what's the
mindset and this is very to achieve for
somebody who has not been working in the
company for a relatively long
period so so Lou that that's an
interesting point Pedro so Louise I mean
the part of that is
um you know project management is a
fairly technical discipline right is is
that the same uh so so do do project
managers make good pmos because because
Pedro's kind of seems to be saying that
you know it helps if you come from the
business and understand the business a
little bit right so the
surprised you won't be surprised to know
I have a view on that um good uh good
comment in the chat from Ashok actually
as well if you don't mind if I build on
uh ashok's Point um the role of the pmo
is to facilitate change it's the oil in
the engine if it was not there the
engine would sound like a tractor and
stop even projects without pmos have a
virtual pmo
even if it's only the project manager so
similar point right um the way I I like
to so I've got two answers to this
question um first my first answer to it
my kind of reflex answer to it is pmo
and project management I believe
certainly the role of the pmo manager
and the role of the project manager they
tend to draw different types of people
the base
discipline is undoubtedly very similar
but I think project managers um and and
of course many of us in PML have started
off as project managers so I'm not
saying never the twain shall meet of
course they do but project managers
those who continue to deliver projects
do so because they they like that Thrill
of the trace that Adrenaline Rush of
bringing something home and and all the
ups and downs that that entails often
that person isn't the person that's
going to provide oversight to a
portfolio and not be involved in the cut
and thrust different personality types I
think so even if we agree that the
discipline is essentially the same I
think the personality types to do a good
job here can be quite
different um yeah it's an interesting
point so the way I think of it is that
you here at least here in the UK right
um in in schools head
teachers have to teach some lessons one
or two lessons a week right and the
reason they do that is so they stay
current so their skills stay sharp right
but being a head teacher is actually a
different role it's a different job to
being a teacher right it it's a business
role really and and it's the same thing
for pmo it's it's a you know it's a
transition from being a project
management role into being a business
role and you you you know I think I
think it's it's about um you asok great
to see you man uh I don't think ashok's
missed one of our webinars for about six
months now so I think a little little
gold star for being up this late asok
but I think as shock's comment is is
great because it's it's all
about delivering the change that the
business needs and wants right
increasing the the return you know the
business is investing in these projects
to try and Achieve certain business
goals so how do we increase that return
on the investment right and and that's
really and and sometimes that's takes
the form Pedro you were talking about
alignment and which projects to do
you're talking about rebalancing between
baau and and your strategic projects or
your move the business forward projects
um you know Louise one of the things I
know you're you're good at is really
good at is thinking through what some of
the processes are and making sure that
that project basic project hygiene is in
place that kind of thing you know so so
these are all sort
of they're not there because because we
get a gold badge for having good project
hygiene it's there because that will
help us deliver value well let let me
give you the second answer to the
question if I may because I did say it
was kind of a two-pronged answer so
first of all different types of people
um but what pmo essentially comes down
to and again Pedro touched on this uh
nicely is data and so both the project
managers and the pmo are um essentially
if everybody's doing their job properly
following processes then are building
catalog cataloging performance data on
projects and it's not just pmos that do
this project managers have the primary
accountability for cost forecasts
schedule data risk and issue data and
it's the pmo that typically consolidates
that data which uh enables it to support
decision making but there is no data
without the project managers so you
can't have one without the other either
everything can and I'm thinking about
this more and more at the moment as we
have more conversations about how
organizations can successfully execute
their strategic goals to to to show
value that's what it always comes back
to and you know my go-to on this is show
me the data what data do we have what
data do we want how are we going to get
the data and that has to start with
project
managers Lis this is a fundamental point
in my opinion or any pmo should have at
least one future which is the called
single point of Tru so if the pmo show
that the capital budget is 20 million
Australian dollars this 20 million
Australian doar Finance could not
challenge HR could not challenge the C
could not challenge this figure is
affected if if we are not in this space
if we are in a situation that Finance
say that the capital investment is x
million but in my Pro budgets is
different we are in deep trouble so a
key element as you mention is data so to
to to avoid a lot of discussions I
thought no you we could have thought the
data is at Le
6,100
Euros full stop no discussion so but the
good thing is that you could relatively
rapidly reach this point with the
available if you make a good
implementation of the project management
tools
and find a way to export the cost
fundamentally the cost from the
financial uh systems to
the project management systems or
merching one way or another you are in
good sh so that's the that's that's key
in my opinion moving to the soft aspect
the soft skill
suspects H I tend to think that the
manager is more the
leaper than the [ __ ] manager the
the it's like a
well this metaphor of what are not
very ER popular with the Ukrainian War
but I tend to think that the are very
illust illustrative for this purpose
there are people who are very Happ in
the trenches and there are people who
are very good at at the headquarters
moving
maps and so both and I tend to think
that the pmo manager is more somebody
that might have some experience as a
project manager in the past but this is
not the this is not the key the key is
to understand the big picture and to be
able to discuss with both the project
managers and the se- level Executives
and the difficulty and and maybe it's
useful that he is not the best possible
project manager due to the worst
situation is where the project
manager provide lessons to the other the
sorry the pmo manager take lessons to
the project managers you should do that
you should maybe need to compress the
schedule H use this tool hire this guy
you have over resources this is not a
discussion
this this is not the discussion the
discussion
is we have this projects we have um er
we need to
accomplish do you need anything from
other elements or departments from the
company to help you you need people for
a testing your it system maybe these
people are from Finance or Warehouse or
marketing this is the role of the pmo
manager
so so I'm really I'm really interested
that you you both kind of start with
data because because my my instinct is
always to start with the business goals
right what are we trying to achieve as a
business because at the end of the day
that the only reason we do projects is
to help drive towards Drive the
organization towards those goals right
so so all that change that's going on is
uh you know the the the senior lead
leaders are trying to figure out you
know how should we respond as an
organization and projects are how they
make that happen so so you know what are
what are your thoughts around the role
of and I think we're sort of saying the
same thing because you were talking
about data as as an input into
governance right and and governance is
that process of decision- making where
you figure out you know which projects
and how do we allocate resources and all
of those things um so so how do you how
do you see how do you see those two
coming together to enable
change I think to start with business
goals from a pmo perspective you have to
be a pmo that has um an acknowledged
strategic value from the beginning so
something like an Enterprise pmo or an
investment pmo um if the pmo is in at
the ground floor and has a hand in those
strategic decision making and priority
ization and all of those things then um
business goals is a very sensible and
straightforward place to start but the
reality is a lot of pmos don't start
there a lot of pmos are set up as a a
kind of add-on to a delivery function um
they might even be there as just a
center of excellence function to do a
bit of
reporting um and my argument is that
even those pmos can support strategic
value but to do so no one's listening to
them to talk about strategic goals um
they will in the end but they've got to
build their credibility and you build
your credibility by stating a a credible
case supported by data so that's why I
probably have a slightly different
perspective St because I see more
pmos
um that really get their their life post
that um strategic function once they've
come come over the fence and delivery
that's where we tend to see more pmos so
so so here's here's implicit in that
Louise is sort of
this the implication that you those pmos
that are not starting with the goals
right they've been they've been set up
or they've been uh created someone waved
a wand in the executive team right to
create that at
pmo and so the the the Assumption there
is that the the exacts don't really
understand the value that a pmo can
bring to enable change so so fingers on
keyboards again guys uh happy face
versus Smiley fa uh frowny face so happy
face means that your Executives really
understand the link that the P or the
role the pmo can play to enable um to
enable change and a and a frowny face is
that your execs don't get it at all and
they think you're just an admin function
and then I'm sure some of you will be
somewhere in between who is that a all
right that's definitely a very grumpy
face there got some frownies from from
Alexis wow Stephanie is not sure we got
some in the middle there uh we got some
some who get it bit of a mixture on this
one yeah that's that's what I would
expect um I mean so
so yeah so transparent Choice does
project prioritization so we are by
definition right we get involved in
those with those pmos who are usually
they're not there they're trying to make
that transition right to being a much
more you know business value
C we talk about the pmo implementation
cycle yeah I I always thought that it's
easier to start with a sort of
control h pmo and this is and with this
control pmo that you has forecast a Ure
timelines and
deadlines
is track risk ensure project completion
and Handover from this control
pmo which is relatively rapid to to set
up it's easy to move to an strategic
pmo on the contrary if you start from
the process so we start with cap
training people develop of the process H
the project management process prepare
artifacts ER it's a long journey during
this long journey it's very likely that
the SE level
executive ER change mindset find
something more interesting and maybe the
pmo disappear or would this even
worse uh keep as a sort of a a a struer
that very few people take any interest
so it's still still there are maybe not
a lot of people working on
there prepar and reports but not
provided any value if you are very
tactical as Louis stated and I agree
that most of the pmos in practice are
more tactical than strategic pmos if you
are very
tactical the role of the Strategic is
play
by the business sponsor so if the pmo
has not a real understanding of the
company er objectives and how to put it
in practice and what is best and what is
worse we need to rely individually in
the business sponsor from the each
individual project to provide the stat
Direction so that means and in practice
what we did when I was a pmo head for a
a multinational company petrochemical
company based in Texas we manage a
portfolio of 100 projects worldwide what
we did is to say a business sponsor
should have this Authority so should be
not a vice president but the people who
report to a vice presidents the so-call
corporate heads HR
head press head human Human Resources
heads and for the subsidiaries there
should be the general manager as a
minimum somebody who report to the
general manager so by a
elevating the ER profile of the business
sponsor we thought we
expect that he has or she has a vision
of the company
strategy so so our shock's on fire
tonight actually
um so he's banged a couple another
another couple of great comments but I
love weta's comment um that one got a
double double Hearts from me uh project
should be derived from the business
strategy period yeah absolutely now so
here's the here's the thing right so if
we take our premise that change is
happening and it's getting faster and
harder to keep up and the pmo is kind of
all
about being the oil in the machine asok
right that asok said earlier um then
then surely the pmo should be whatever
the company needs to accelerate that
change to increase the return of
investment on that change to to so and
sometimes that so so we're talking to
one company at the minute um out in the
Middle East and they you know they're a
huge company huge multi-billion dollar
company and the thing the the so where
their CEO wants them to start is just to
be able to tell us how many projects are
we doing because they don't know yeah
right and where's the money being spent
because they don't know right so
sometimes it's as simple as that that's
the starting point but other times it's
you know how do we align you know it's
so it's it's really what is the thing
that is in the way of your organization
delivering the change they need that
that's the place to St I guess what what
we see sorry say what we see is when uh
a pmo meets that need and meets it
successfully whatever it is they get
asked to do the next thing exact and the
next thing and then before like sooner
or later that must lead to the Strategic
piece even if that first thing was
something like doing a an inventory of
projects or a forecast piece very
tactical stuff done well builds
credibility which Builds on to the next
thing that's it so so Laura Barnard
talks about this quite a lot as well and
and what she says is you know give them
what they want first then give them what
they need yeah right because you might
know what they need but if that's not
what they want then you're not going to
get support for it so give them what
they want first and then give them what
they need so so all right um here's
little change of topic then so what goes
wrong what gets in the way of delivering
change um you know you guys have been
around for a long time I think I could
say that a long right yeah no that's
okay I know you're you know you're
20,000 miles away L you can't hit me so
I'm fine
right um so you guys have been around
for a while you've seen you've seen some
good practice you've seen things that
maybe weren't so solid so um where have
you seen it done badly and what what
were some of the what were some of the
challenges what are some of the the the
causes of things going
wrong I think in my opinion firstly H we
need to balance
operations or the operational component
and the Strategic
component so the the operational
component is the project execution and
the strateg component is the portfolio
management ER and there is sometimes a g
if you have a good
strategy H but poly
executed you will not provide any
value obviously the opposite is equally
the same the only different or the
advantage is if you have a good
strategy the performance the operational
performance of the project is better
this is measured by PMI and there are
51% a better uh results in terms of uh
time I think 40% better in terms of a
buet come so and why do you always ask
me why why yeah and what's my
opinion you to people who like to work
in projects that has meaning project
which are
sensible project that they thought are
resources so if they thought there are a
project which and we have talked about
sometimes about project Apollo launch a
rocket to the
moon if some anybody working in Apollo
even if you are cleaning the
floor are very happy very proud they
working in PR Apollo they don't say that
I'm cleaning the
toilets
so and the alignment automatically
creates well obviously not everybody
could work in Pro for projects of this
nature or project parle the design of
the iPhone not everybody could work here
but if you are in a project which is
reasonable well prepared you thought
it's a good idea you thought that the
company will be slightly better with
this
project we you thought that the project
could be accomplished in the time that
is scheduled people are perform better
people perform
better and the other on the contrary if
the idea is bad if you take the wrong
decision if you choose a project which
never ever should be
selected there is no way that the people
who manage the project
resolve if you go to a place where
nobody would like to fly and then you
put an
airport yeah absolutely you could do a
fantastic airport but people would not
fly to the aort so I tell you what
isma's just made an interesting comment
Lou maybe you can pick the one up so so
uh so saying resistance from middle
managers towards the pmo is fear to
change ignorance in the system probably
self unconfident and and I would I'm
going to I'm going to suggest that
sometimes the resistant comes because
the pmo is making a pig's ear of it
right that they turn into the process
police and they they over you know they
they're they're making it harder than
need needs to be so so what are your
thoughts about that that that whole area
Louise
that's
oh look I think when the pmo makes a
pigy of it and you know as a as a stange
career pmo person it really rankles me
that pmos get such a bad rap sometimes
so making a pig ear of it when this
happens certainly in my
observation it stems from post
sponsorship and not having a clear idea
of what the pmo is there to do you can
always you can always get a bad team of
people like it very rarely happens that
you get a whole bad team of people
though doesn't it you know you can get
One Bad Apple or a couple of bad highes
you're not going to get a whole team of
turkeys usually if you've got an
underperforming pmo I would suggest it's
the fault of whoever has come up with
the vision for this pmo and is M's
points um really important actually so
there's two points in there for me that
I kind of want to pull apart there's the
one of sponsorship
generally sometimes pmos are put in
place because somebody tells an
executive that they need a pmo and that
executive doesn't really know what that
means or care very much actually but the
auditor says or one of the directors say
or it came out in a report somewhere um
let's have a pmo so let's have a pmo
we'll hire this team off you go no no
clear understanding no clear purpose or
objectives they are then seen to be be
an overhead function um that you know
make a pig's ear of it um no good comes
from that then we get the uh the bit
that I think is interested in what in
what Ismail says is perhaps a pmo that
is not doing a terrible job but what
they are coming up with is not popular
so projects are not performing well and
people don't like that news you know
some organizations are big fans of what
we call the watermelon project uh green
on the outside red in the middle and it
suits everybody to have things green on
the outside a pmo comes along starts
doing their job well asking
questions not always liked now that can
be a good team of pmo Professionals in
an organization that is never going to
allow them to thrive and never really
going to get the value from a pmo so
there's a couple of things in there I
think well yeah so I love that um gosh
where next so so let's let's let's keep
going with that so the original question
was about what what can really slow you
down right the delivery change and I
think I think we've sort of jumped we'
sort of landed in culture now right a
culture a culture that's resistant to
change for whatever reason right is one
of the is one of the big barriers and
and I think that the the
blame culture is is probably the most
toxic of all you know so um
those of you in Australia if you if you
know Amanda roken fall right so she she
goes in whenever she goes into a new a
new gig you know she she wears red she
brings in red roses she makes everything
around her red because she wants to set
the culture that red is good red is not
bad red is good because if we see red we
can manage it but if we don't see it we
can't manage it right so and that's a
cultural thing so so how do you set up
the culture Pedro to to enable
change
well I think we need to have you need to
have two extrems one exem is let's say
the let's call it Technical and process
streem and there is a change of people
change management of people
stream ER you need to have a change
manager or if it's smaller somebody
maybe the project manager maybe the pmo
need to take this all but the and you
need to sell the duties on individual
basis so you need to go to the on a what
basis Pedro say it again on individual
basis so it's not on the on the benefit
of the company so the company will
double a turnover okay but it what means
for
me I will receive a salary increase I
work I will work less h i will be
promoted so the the change you need to
identify the impact of the change in
every in each key key stakeholder and
for the rest you need to group it in in
certain bus let's call it or certain
groups or teams and then need to select
a sort of a example or super user that
you ask it questions do you need to
understand the impact of the change h
in in each individual or in most
individual possible and then you need to
prepare an
strategy for any single in individual if
it's key and for the groups if it's are
not
so so let's say important for the change
and one important think is very often
the way that the people ER
prioritize the
stakeholders is based on the business
card so the CEO is very important coo is
slightly less and that's it it's the so
go in reality you need to prioritize in
order to the impact on the project to
some people who would have a very
relatively low business card but could
stop you the project let's say a clear
example is when you need the sign off
for somebody on the
authorities the individual who has
assigned your project to provide
the license to operate it's key it's
more important even than the general
manager at this particular point in time
man could change but this guy will have
the your project and will decide to
let's
say provide un go or no go
so and and you need to identify these
people due to very often project fails
due to everybody knows who is the CEO
everybody knows who
is his manager so so so some comments
from from uh from the from the audience
uh we letter again each stakeholder
group SL individuals are different
what's with them what's in it for me uh
and there's lots of things under
underneath the iceberg invisible things
that can get in the way politics fear
ego so I think that's aligned with what
you were talking about a minute ago yes
one of the we have a one of our
colleagues consultants in company in our
company
liman came from the general management
role of
a equivalent of Fortune 500 but in Spain
and he always say when there is a change
there is an status quo and you need to
you need to understand H that will be a
I will use again a batter to there are
people who will be will receive benefit
and somebody will not receive benefit
and that's true so when there is a
change the equilibrium change and when
the equilibrium
change not
everybody ER
receive a more let's say in this simple
word than used to have so all this guys
will be resistance and it's likely to be
resistance so it's
very I see in the past to people thought
that people resistance due to our all
fasion
our middle managing and are very
resistant while the the SE level
executives are embrace the change that's
not true the you need to understand what
is the impact for this particular
individual and you I see people which
Chang in
role one was
the engineering manager another was the
prodution
manager and then they swap so keeping
the company keep but swap the the
chairs and
then the reason mean that the other used
to have is the reason that the new H
people in the position the new person in
the position has so ask it for the the
material that he has not provide
previously when he have he has the other
role so it's more likely to see that
people are defending a reasonable
aspects from his own perspective or from
the
perspective of the role that he plac in
the
company H than a personal ER attitude or
mentality brilliant so so we've got
about 10 minutes left so I want to come
back to kind of the the pmo and and and
come up a level right so we've been
talking about how do you deliver change
what gets in the way to change in
projects what gets in the way things
like this now we've seen pmos change and
when they change we've seen
incredible increases in the amount of
value they give to the organization to
the to the amount of change they're
allowed that they're able to deliver it
would be one way of looking at it
um and and again just because of where
we sit right we do portfolio management
software so we we see that side of it
but we you we we we regularly seen
organizations Implement you make make
changes at that portfolio level the
portfolio management level and double
the return to the business right the
Strategic return to the business and so
um so to but to get there we've got to
change actually the pmo and what it what
it is
so let's come up to that level and I'm
going to ask Louise first how do you
start thinking about building a case for
change right the the because we've
already said you you start off by doing
whatever the business wants yes and now
we're talking about what the business
needs right the business really needs to
accelerate so how do you start building
that case case for Change and having
great great question more and more we're
finding our way into those conversations
is to talk about benefits Pro
benefits as economic Times have have
have gotten harder I think globally over
the last 12 18 months even before that
actually there's been a real increase in
organizations U making a commitment to
getting value from their projects or
realizing benefits now you still get a
lot of organizations that say oh we want
to get the benefits Without Really known
what that means but there's more of an
appetite forever than ever before for
them to take the next step in that
conversation and talk with people like
us uh say how do we realize these
benefits and you know the conversation
that we have is that there is no better
group that you already have in your
organization to help you track manage
realize benefits because they're already
embedded in part of that life cycle at
least part of it um than your pmo team
and so that tends to focus the
leadership team team uh into giving the
the pmo if they don't already have a
seat of the the Strategic or leadership
table then that conversation can help um
push that conversation
along brilliant Pedro same same question
what do you think how how would you
start that conversation about hey we
need to change the pmo to to Really
accelerate our ability in order to
accelerate we need to do two things
which are quite simple to say not so
easy to select the right projects yeah
and execute it as fast as you
can you do when you execute it very fast
there are multiple advantage and there
there are less risk that something
happens like Ukraine or Co or
whatever you have Focus you are working
in 10 projects maybe you execute 100
projects a year but maybe at this
particular point I have 25 I not have
100 starting on first January and
complet on 31st December I have maybe I
execute a 30 and then 30 and then 30 so
we have more Focus we have deliver the
value earlier which is important there
are we discuss it before when we prepare
this this event that there are very
often Windows if you open a hotel one
more delay would ruin the benefit or
destroy the benefits what is I agree
with you is that the benefit realization
you need to have a plan you need to when
you are preparing the business case or
the project you need to determine what
the benefits will be but this is not the
end you need to take into account the
benefits during the project execution
for instance when you make a
change you should ask if this change
affects the benefits to as mentioned
this is the hotel is a very clear
example if I delay one
more the benefit that I will aeve this
year we will achieve it next
year and then somebody need to H you to
in very usually a project continues
providing value for
years but the project manager is not
there so who
should
ER control or monitor let's say more
monitor than control
This brilliant brilliant to be the P the
pmo in the past I I see examples where
when I start doing projects for capital
projects about H2 million pounds I work
for a British company at the
minute H we need to do two capex review
one six months completion the other one
two two two years completion but the
review is done by the project manager so
all the projects has been very
successful due to nobody would like to
ruin his own
work so the review could not be done by
the project manager and the the
responsible of the benefits is not the
project manager in most of the cases if
not in all should be an owner of its
benefit yeah couldn't couldn't agree
more with with that statement all right
so we just have a couple of minutes left
here um and so so Louise Pedro I'm gonna
ask you to tell people how you can get
in contact with you but before before we
do that I have one more quick question
for everybody um so earlier on guy put a
little uh funny little note in there
that the the pmo stands for the pro
procrastin management office so my
question to everybody is who had to
Google the word proc
procan so who's going to admit that they
had to Google the
word here we go yeah yeah I I'll confess
I did as well and actually the uh guy I
hope you don't mind me sharing this but
guy and I actually spoke the other day
and um I I got to tell you he's he's a
really smart cookie and we ended up we
we were talking about Julia we covered
juliia Caesar at one point we had Titans
fighting the gods we had all kinds of
things going on in this conversation and
it was all in the context of pmos and
pmo effectiveness things like that so so
guy thank you for uh bringing your great
intellect and vocabulary to the table
really enjoyed that so Louise kick us
off here we're in the the home
stretch um uh how should people get in
touch with you to talk about these
issues and to you know if they've got a
challenge how how can you uh how can
they get in contact with you to get get
started uh LinkedIn is probably the best
place to get in touch with with me um
Louise got partner or you can follow our
uh or check out our company page which
is pledge Consulting uh or you can take
a look at our website which is pledge
Consulting uh.com com.au I hesitated
there because we do have a a pledge
Consulting dash.com that we've just set
up as well um but yeah do com.au um yeah
but link LinkedIn you'll you'll find me
most of the time looking Ling in corners
of LinkedIn brilliant and and Louise is
in Australia so remember that Au after
the Doom so it's do.
Au um otherwise you'll end up somewhere
completely different Pedro same same to
you my friend what how should people
reach out to you if they if they want to
chat to you you're you're based in
Europe so you know you you cover a very
different time zone and geography to to
Louise equally the same I'm very active
in linking ER our web page is Li
man. ER Maybe
for making easier we could send a the
contact details in the followup message
that you send after then good idea it
will be easier to and then is a link
which facilitate
so and we could discuss and very often
with exchange information due to I tend
to think that most of the people in the
audience are a very
SE professionals which uh has a a lot of
to say
perfect thank you Lenora that's that's
great so Lenora will be coordinating
getting emails out uh once we've
recorded this um we'll we'll get emails
out uh uh am many sorry I just noticed
your hand is up um feel free to jump
into the into chat um if you have
comments unfortunately we're pretty much
out of time here um and we've got so
many comments and so many questions and
so many ways we could take this
conversation maybe we'll need to do this
one again and uh and keep the
conversation going so thank you
everybody for uh oh that was for
Googling brilliant excellent um so thank
you everybody for for attending but
thank you also for engaging in the
conversation it does make it it makes it
more fun for us frankly but it great
great comment I'd like to keep chatting
with every single person who commented
So yeah thank you for your engagement it
was great yeah it it really makes and
and it means that we end up talking
about stuff that is actually interesting
to you as well so uh so thank you for
for that participation really wouldn't
have uh wouldn't have been as good a
session without it so uh on that for
once we're going to finish on time um it
just remains to thank both Louise and
Pedro on behalf of the audience and and
and uh on behalf of transparent choice
for sharing your expertise with us
tonight or this morning depending which
time zone you're in brilliant thank you
everybody