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Why don't we start off with the title of the talk, Steve,

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because, um, uh, it was not without controversy.

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Was it

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Contra Me in controversy?

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Surely not, surely

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Not.

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So tell us the story. Where, where's,

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where's this title come from?

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Where does this idea come from? Oh, yeah.

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Where does it come from? That's the point.

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Well, I thought it came from, um, uh,

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from Quinn at Dartmouth.

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Uh, but apparently it didn't, it came from, uh,

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Russell with all these things.

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You, you Google a quote, you find a quote from someone,

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turns out they borrowed it from someone else.

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Uh, but we, we all stand on just a great quote.

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The point is, it illustrates, uh, there's a guy called, um,

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I forgot his name now, in the, in the States,

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and he says, you know, we do

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so much at work in organizations that makes no difference.

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Um, Ken Miller, Ken Miller in the States.

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So we do stuff that makes no difference whatsoever,

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but we just carry on doing it.

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Um, and he tells rather funny story about it.

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But anyway, um, and it seemed to me that, you know,

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too often I say to people when I'm talking about benefits,

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I tour the world, and people say to me, hi, Steve.

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You know, I met you a few years ago.

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We've done everything you said.

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I say, you know, we've got a benefit strategy tick,

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we've got benefit profiles, tick, you know,

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we've got benefit managers tick.

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I say, great. Did you realize any benefits?

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And I say, oh, we don't know. And here I'm trying to,

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you know, it's just you're doing stuff rather than

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focusing on what the, the stuff's supposed to deliver.

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Uh, so you're focusing on the means rather than that,

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rather than the ends.

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And there is this, um, tendency, um,

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and it's the devil inside.

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I, this is not Steve saying, look, I'm so clever.

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I never make this mistake. No, we all do.

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It is the devil inside.

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Um, and too often we get suckered into doing stuff.

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Look, I'm so busy, I'm pushing bits of paper,

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and yet it makes no difference.

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Um, and so that's what that quote is, a reminder

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that we need to focus on making the difference, um,

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whether we call that value, benefits, impact, results.

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You know, this year's word of choice appears to be impact.

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Um, a few years ago it was results value.

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You know, broadly speaking,

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we're talking about the same thing.

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We're trying to make, make things better.

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What measurable improvements have we delivered?

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Um, and so that for me is the,

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and the, in a, the kind of PMO sense,

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'cause you, just to follow up what I thought you was Yeah.

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Was the first question. The challenge for the PMO,

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therefore is to make a difference.

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How do we actually make them and therefore, and

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therefore focus, in other words, number one,

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in the detention of the PMO should be benefits.

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Now, Hobbs did a report about, ooh, a few years ago

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for the PMI so prompt.

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This will be primarily in the States at that point.

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And, um, he identified 27 functions of A PMO

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and benefits were slurred from bottom.

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And I say, if you're not doing

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benefits, what really whatcha, whatcha doing?

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Everything else is a means to an end.

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The end are benefits, the improvements.

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If you're not focusing on that,

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you're focusing on on the wrong thing.

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And the guy called Kiran Bond,

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Dale wrote a an absolutely awesome article, um,

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entitled, I Come to Bury PMOs Not to Praise them.

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Uh, and I thought, wow, what size?

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Yeah, good name. You know?

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And all he was saying, he said, look, people replied

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to him saying, you mustn't say this.

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You must, you know, you,

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you are scared the the business people away.

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And he said, all I'm saying is if you don't add value,

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shut the thing down.

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And I thought, what? You know, absolutely.

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So it's really, I think of, you know, at the very heart of

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what a PMO, um, is about doing, is about adding value,

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whatever value means for that particular organization.

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And that should be the number one focus.

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Everything else is a means to the end.

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The end is realization of value.

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A absolutely. And there was, there was a rather rather

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shaky study done a few years ago, um,

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by the good folks at ESI, um,

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and they, they surveyed a whole bunch of PMOs and,

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and discovered that 73%, I think it was, um,

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were were under threat of being shut down.

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And, and that's why, because they're not adding the value.

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You're adding value and you're not showing the average.

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But I wanna, sorry,

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before I forget, Stuart, we were, we were chatting a week,

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two weeks ago or something, and you mentioned a story, um,

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you said you were talking to someone

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and you were talking about benefits and value,

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and they said, well, yeah, but there's no upside.

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You know, if we don't get, if we focus on benefits

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and we don't deliver, then they're gonna come down

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on us like a ton of breaks.

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And if we do, well, no one really cares. So what's the part?

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And I thought about that afterwards

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and I felt, I was like saying to them, shame on you.

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Yeah, shame on you saying that. You

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Know, and, and it was a government department.

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Well, that this is Double shame. Absolutely

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Double shame. It's not

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your money, it's my money. It's taxpayer's money.

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And what you're saying is, it's okay for us to spend

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taxpayers' money and not demonstrate that we've added value.

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And not only not demonstrate it,

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but deliberately say we're not gonna bother.

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And I think No, absolutely. Outrageous.

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So whether it's taxpayers' money

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or it's shareholders' money,

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that's why benefits is so important.

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Because ultimately, you know, if it's my money,

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and then my daughter, my elder daughter said to me, dad,

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why do you want another motorbike?

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You've already got two and a money in

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Australia, so you've got three.

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Why do you want another motorbike?

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I said, Carly, how many pairs of shoes have you got?

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She said, good point, dad. And you know, that's the point.

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We will always justify what we want. Yeah,

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Absolutely. But if

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It's not your money, it's not my, if it's your money,

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you can do what you like with it.

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It's not your money. We need to do something sensible.

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So this is why benefits is so important.

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So, so before we jump into the,

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so there's a question I wanna dig into, which is okay

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with all of that, what's the po you know,

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why do we have a PMO?

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And I think you've, you've kind of set the groundwork

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for, for answering that.

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Um, but before we,

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before we do that, I I just wanna read the quote

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that we've been talking about just

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in case everybody's forgotten.

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So, so the quote is, um, a good deal

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of corporate planning is like a ritual RainDance.

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It has no effect on the weather that follows,

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but those who engage in it think it does.

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Um, and moreover, much, much of the advice related

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to corporate planning is directed at improving the dancing,

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not the weather.

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And so there's, there's kind of two bits to that.

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First of all, uh, you know, by the end of today,

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what I'm hoping you will all be able

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to do is take a good look at yourselves

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and see whether you think you are re affecting the dance

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or the weather, right?

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So that's, that's my challenge

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to everyone on the, on the session.

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Um, and then, uh, uh,

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and then the second thing is, are you assuming that you are

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spending too much time dancing, um,

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how should we be changing the dance so

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that we do affect the weather?

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Or should we be doing something completely different

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to make sure we affect the weather?

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Can we affect the weather? That's an interesting

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question as well, right?

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So there's lots to unpack in this session.

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Um, but, but I, I wanna, I wanna just keep going

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with this value thing for a second, Steve.

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So, um, I, I was on a, I was on a,

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a webinar, I dunno, about a year ago.

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Uh, actually it was a, it was an impact after hours.

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So it was exactly a year ago.

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'cause we're doing it again in a couple hours tonight.

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Uh, we're doing a, an impact

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after hours of Laura Barnard and the crew.

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And we were talking about what's, what's the job description

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for, for PMOs, right?

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That was the title of the section. What, what's the PMO for?

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And I'd done a bit of research into

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the history of PMOs, right?

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So I'm starting to roll out, you know, well,

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back in the 1930s, right?

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The, the starting of, you know, the original PMOs look.

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And then in the fifties, and then in the,

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and then lady called Amanda, open full steps,

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and she says, Stuart, shut up.

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No one cares the job of the PMO.

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There is only one job at the PMO,

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and that is to maximize the return on

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investment from the portfolio.

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That's it. That's, that's the job now.

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So that executing

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that job is gonna take different forms depending on

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what type of PMO and what type of organization

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and what maturity you're at and all that kind of good stuff.

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But fundamentally, the job is to maximize the PMO, the,

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the ROI from the portfolio discuss.

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Would you, first of all, would you agree with that?

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If so, why? And if not, why?

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Well, primarily, no, I wouldn't agree with it.

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But yes, I agree with the sentiment,

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and I don't think it's ultimately it's senior manager's job

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to maximize, optimize the return on investment.

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They're the people,

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ultimately, they're gonna make the decisions.

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The job of the PMO is to facilitate, to enable

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the realization, the optimization of value.

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I think that's the, the

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difference, oh, that's a subtle difference.

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Okay. But I think it's important.

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But, but, but what I would,

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I think it's really important that the PMO in a way acts

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as the conscience.

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They should behave maybe internally as if it's my job,

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because otherwise it's too easy to say, well,

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you know, management just don't get it.

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We sit here, we produce the ports, they don't do it.

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I, there's a guy called Anand Sandwell,

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and Anand was the head of corporate portfolio management

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for American Express and wrote a rather interesting book,

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won lots of awards a decade or so ago.

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And I got him to come over to the UK and do a presentation.

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I was in government at the time, had a,

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a portfolio group in government across government,

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and I've got Alan to come do a talk.

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And he said, guys, he gets all your red, amber,

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green charts, all your portfolio monthly reports

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are worthless, goes, they're not, they're not of some value.

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They're of no value until

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the money you take money off, Stuart,

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and you give the money to Steve until the money

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flows in a different direction.

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All you've created is a bureaucracy.

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And I sat there and I thought, oh my God, listen, that I,

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I'm not entirely sure is,

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you know, a hundred percent accurate.

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But nevertheless, I thought that was a useful challenge.

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So, you know, you can, you can sit

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and say, oh, well, it's not our job.

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It's senior manager's job. We produce a report.

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They don't do anything with it, dear road.

251
00:10:37.625 --> 00:10:39.955
Well, what's the point then? What's the point?

252
00:10:40.535 --> 00:10:43.715
Um, and that your point about making a difference,

253
00:10:43.715 --> 00:10:44.915
and can we make a difference?

254
00:10:45.395 --> 00:10:48.115
I remember talking to a guy in, in, um,

255
00:10:48.415 --> 00:10:50.755
in justice in the UK at one point when I was in,

256
00:10:50.815 --> 00:10:54.225
in the home office, and he was involved

257
00:10:54.255 --> 00:10:56.505
with street crime, reducing street crime.

258
00:10:57.325 --> 00:10:58.625
And I said to him, look,

259
00:10:58.625 --> 00:11:01.545
but there are so many factors that influence street crime.

260
00:11:01.885 --> 00:11:04.105
How do you know we've had a difference?

261
00:11:04.105 --> 00:11:05.185
He goes, well, what's the point if

262
00:11:05.185 --> 00:11:06.225
we're not gonna make a difference?

263
00:11:07.235 --> 00:11:09.575
You know, we've got to make a difference.

264
00:11:09.645 --> 00:11:11.255
Said, but you, I said, it's the place,

265
00:11:11.475 --> 00:11:13.735
or it's the, so I think it's important

266
00:11:13.735 --> 00:11:17.095
that the PMO in a way has the mentality of it's our job,

267
00:11:17.435 --> 00:11:19.615
but you need to recognize you achieve that

268
00:11:19.765 --> 00:11:23.375
through influencing senior managers, program managers,

269
00:11:23.375 --> 00:11:25.535
project managers, a whole range of stakeholders.

270
00:11:26.155 --> 00:11:29.575
So that's what, I mean, for me, this is why two things.

271
00:11:29.795 --> 00:11:31.535
One, why this is the, in,

272
00:11:31.555 --> 00:11:34.015
in the book actually at the very beginning, why I think, uh,

273
00:11:34.015 --> 00:11:35.575
portfolio management is important

274
00:11:35.635 --> 00:11:37.015
and why the PMO is important.

275
00:11:37.015 --> 00:11:39.495
Because actually, when we wrote management portfolios,

276
00:11:40.195 --> 00:11:42.175
we actually kind of, it kind of says

277
00:11:42.695 --> 00:11:44.135
A PMO is kind of optional.

278
00:11:44.135 --> 00:11:45.815
It's, it, it would be nice to have one,

279
00:11:45.835 --> 00:11:48.015
but it, I'm not in that camp anymore.

280
00:11:48.155 --> 00:11:50.575
No, we, you need a pbo. Absolutely.

281
00:11:51.275 --> 00:11:54.595
Um, but the, the two points are, one, it's important.

282
00:11:55.135 --> 00:11:56.915
Why is it important? Because without it,

283
00:11:56.915 --> 00:11:59.035
you're not gonna get optimize your returns on investment,

284
00:11:59.695 --> 00:12:01.995
uh, because you won't choose the right initiatives too

285
00:12:01.995 --> 00:12:03.875
often, and you won't deal with the barriers.

286
00:12:03.895 --> 00:12:05.675
You won't address the barriers to delivery.

287
00:12:05.675 --> 00:12:08.355
Those are the two fundamental roles of the PMO

288
00:12:08.945 --> 00:12:11.235
Help managers make more informed decisions

289
00:12:11.975 --> 00:12:15.075
and remove the barriers to, to delivery

290
00:12:15.175 --> 00:12:16.635
and to benefits realization.

291
00:12:17.255 --> 00:12:20.595
So that's why it's important, but it is also damn difficult.

292
00:12:21.765 --> 00:12:24.625
If it was easy, you know, anyone could do it,

293
00:12:24.805 --> 00:12:26.225
but it's not easy because you're having

294
00:12:26.225 --> 00:12:28.745
to influence people across the organization

295
00:12:29.395 --> 00:12:33.105
where too often people are working in silos, um,

296
00:12:33.285 --> 00:12:35.025
and they don't take a corporate perspective.

297
00:12:35.165 --> 00:12:36.785
So the PMO, I think in a way,

298
00:12:37.045 --> 00:12:39.065
you are holding the mirror up to the organization.

299
00:12:39.095 --> 00:12:41.905
Many of the tools or the weapons that you have are,

300
00:12:42.125 --> 00:12:44.425
you know, you can't just, there's no line.

301
00:12:44.965 --> 00:12:48.545
You can't just say, do it, Stuart, do it Now, a lot,

302
00:12:48.545 --> 00:12:50.625
my life's easy if I can say, Stuart, do it,

303
00:12:50.645 --> 00:12:53.385
but I've got a persuaded Stuart Sure.

304
00:12:53.465 --> 00:12:54.585
I want, and sure. I myself,

305
00:12:54.585 --> 00:12:55.785
well, I don't see the value of this.

306
00:12:55.785 --> 00:12:57.225
Well, let's have a chat, Stuart.

307
00:12:57.315 --> 00:12:59.625
Let's have, you know, you might wanna speak to Dan.

308
00:13:00.025 --> 00:13:01.145
I was working with Dan last week.

309
00:13:01.145 --> 00:13:03.345
Look what we, me and Dan have done. Oh, that's interesting.

310
00:13:03.345 --> 00:13:04.625
Steve might want a bit of that.

311
00:13:04.965 --> 00:13:08.305
And so you can't call these, I mean, one of the things

312
00:13:08.305 --> 00:13:12.145
that we did, we had, um, a whole load of, um, in,

313
00:13:12.285 --> 00:13:14.145
in criminal justice in the uk, we had a whole load

314
00:13:14.145 --> 00:13:16.185
of stakeholders that were basically winning.

315
00:13:16.445 --> 00:13:20.225
Not our job, not our job, you know, uh, and I said, well,

316
00:13:20.285 --> 00:13:22.065
but John Powells is doing it in the prison.

317
00:13:22.085 --> 00:13:23.705
So John Powells is an ex mate of mine.

318
00:13:23.705 --> 00:13:26.185
He was the ex prison governor, wonderful guy.

319
00:13:26.565 --> 00:13:27.865
And he played ball.

320
00:13:27.885 --> 00:13:29.865
We got him involved in the portfolio process,

321
00:13:30.765 --> 00:13:32.145
and I said, we can't do it.

322
00:13:32.145 --> 00:13:34.145
So John, is, John's doing it.

323
00:13:34.525 --> 00:13:36.225
And when we've got a minister to stand up

324
00:13:36.225 --> 00:13:37.705
and say, I just wanna commend the work

325
00:13:37.705 --> 00:13:39.265
that John Powers is doing, he didn't say,

326
00:13:39.365 --> 00:13:41.385
I'm commending the work that Steve Jenner and the portfolio.

327
00:13:42.145 --> 00:13:44.465
I wanna commend the work this as a minister.

328
00:13:44.785 --> 00:13:46.385
I want to commend the work that John Powell.

329
00:13:46.905 --> 00:13:48.985
Suddenly everyone else wants to better that,

330
00:13:49.805 --> 00:13:50.975
that love. Yeah,

331
00:13:51.775 --> 00:13:52.775
Absolutely.

332
00:13:52.805 --> 00:13:55.255
It's thinking about you don't always have the direct

333
00:13:55.255 --> 00:13:58.495
believers to pull, how could you engage people in,

334
00:13:58.915 --> 00:14:00.015
uh, the creation of value?

335
00:14:00.755 --> 00:14:04.135
So, so here's, so I've got a little job for everybody.

336
00:14:04.245 --> 00:14:06.295
Jump into the chat. I've asked a little question

337
00:14:06.875 --> 00:14:07.935
so that it's voting time.

338
00:14:08.435 --> 00:14:10.815
So the, the statement is, I agree with the spirit

339
00:14:10.995 --> 00:14:13.615
of this job description so that, you know, PMO is there

340
00:14:13.615 --> 00:14:15.455
to add value, yes or no.

341
00:14:15.635 --> 00:14:16.775
So everyone, let's jump in.

342
00:14:16.775 --> 00:14:18.575
If you haven't already, dive in with your answer.

343
00:14:19.355 --> 00:14:24.175
And while you're doing that, um, uh, Steve,

344
00:14:24.425 --> 00:14:26.255
Steve raised an interesting question, and,

345
00:14:26.255 --> 00:14:27.335
and I suddenly realized

346
00:14:27.335 --> 00:14:29.295
that actually I hadn't introduced you at the beginning,

347
00:14:30.115 --> 00:14:34.745
Steve, I just gotta assume Steve Jenner, right?

348
00:14:35.125 --> 00:14:38.825
I'm Steve Ho. Yeah. Steve, what? Hey, I'm Steve. Yeah.

349
00:14:39.645 --> 00:14:43.105
So, so, so I wanna, so I wanna combine Steve Hoy's question

350
00:14:43.895 --> 00:14:46.945
with, or I wanna riff off Steve Hoy's question by way

351
00:14:46.945 --> 00:14:48.425
of introduction to Steve Jenner.

352
00:14:49.185 --> 00:14:50.525
Um, so,

353
00:14:50.705 --> 00:14:52.365
and we're getting lots of yeses, by the way,

354
00:14:52.375 --> 00:14:53.685
which is not a big surprise.

355
00:14:54.385 --> 00:14:56.005
Uh, that's, that's good news right there.

356
00:14:56.005 --> 00:15:00.405
You're in the right place. So, so Steve Hoy says,

357
00:15:00.635 --> 00:15:02.485
says something along the lines, it's, uh, you know,

358
00:15:03.065 --> 00:15:05.765
it depends a bit on what, what the p stands

359
00:15:05.765 --> 00:15:07.325
for in portfolio management.

360
00:15:07.345 --> 00:15:12.125
Now, in the case of Steve Jenner, right, the P stands

361
00:15:12.185 --> 00:15:13.525
for Paleolithic

362
00:15:13.715 --> 00:15:15.925
because he's been doing this stuff since the

363
00:15:15.935 --> 00:15:17.205
Stone Age, right?

364
00:15:17.335 --> 00:15:21.325
Steve, Steve's one of the guys who has really shaped

365
00:15:22.355 --> 00:15:26.305
this industry and the thinking both in terms of,

366
00:15:27.165 --> 00:15:31.745
um, um, you know, being engaged academically, writing books.

367
00:15:32.485 --> 00:15:34.545
Um, he, you know, Steve,

368
00:15:34.995 --> 00:15:37.265
Steve essentially created the Management

369
00:15:37.265 --> 00:15:40.625
of Portfolios program along with Craig Ilford, right?

370
00:15:40.645 --> 00:15:42.745
Um, uh, yeah, give, give, give credit

371
00:15:42.745 --> 00:15:43.905
where it's due to Banana man.

372
00:15:44.145 --> 00:15:48.265
Absolutely. Um, and the, um, uh, so, so, you know,

373
00:15:48.285 --> 00:15:49.225
and then there were, there were a

374
00:15:49.225 --> 00:15:50.305
bunch of other people as well, right?

375
00:15:50.305 --> 00:15:52.625
But, but, but Steve was one of the, the driving forces

376
00:15:52.725 --> 00:15:55.065
behind that was chief examiner for the,

377
00:15:55.065 --> 00:15:56.385
for the management portfolio

378
00:15:56.745 --> 00:15:58.105
certification and so on and so forth.

379
00:15:58.645 --> 00:16:00.465
So, Steve's been around for a long, long time.

380
00:16:00.605 --> 00:16:02.945
Go in, go into Google Scholar and,

381
00:16:03.005 --> 00:16:05.945
and just Google Steve, Steve Jenner portfolio management,

382
00:16:05.965 --> 00:16:08.105
and you will see, or, or benefits management,

383
00:16:08.285 --> 00:16:11.415
and you will see all kinds of stuff on there, right?

384
00:16:12.565 --> 00:16:17.345
So, so Steve is one of those guys who is not only

385
00:16:18.015 --> 00:16:19.065
just close your ears, Steve,

386
00:16:19.145 --> 00:16:20.825
'cause you're not gonna enjoy this, but yeah, uh,

387
00:16:21.215 --> 00:16:24.105
Steve's one of those guys who's not only brilliant,

388
00:16:24.495 --> 00:16:25.865
knowledgeable wise,

389
00:16:26.405 --> 00:16:28.665
but he's also a spectacular communicator.

390
00:16:29.365 --> 00:16:32.385
Um, and, and can really get the ideas across easily.

391
00:16:32.525 --> 00:16:33.705
So if you don't get it today,

392
00:16:33.705 --> 00:16:36.185
you're never gonna get it right, is the message.

393
00:16:36.925 --> 00:16:38.105
Um, but, uh,

394
00:16:38.405 --> 00:16:41.665
but so, so my apologies for not introducing, that's, no,

395
00:16:41.665 --> 00:16:42.825
that's the, that's the benefit.

396
00:16:42.975 --> 00:16:44.625
Yeah. We, we, we were in the green room

397
00:16:44.645 --> 00:16:48.025
and we were chatting, uh, uh, that just sort

398
00:16:48.025 --> 00:16:50.145
of flowed into the, into the webinar, so I forgot

399
00:16:50.145 --> 00:16:51.425
to do the intro, so my apologies.

400
00:16:52.405 --> 00:16:55.385
No course. No worries. Well, so this is a good point, Steve,

401
00:16:55.385 --> 00:16:56.465
to have a have a little break.

402
00:16:56.625 --> 00:16:59.705
'cause one of the questions that we talked about last week

403
00:16:59.925 --> 00:17:02.145
in preparation for this was, was

404
00:17:02.615 --> 00:17:03.865
what are the attributes, right?

405
00:17:03.865 --> 00:17:06.385
Because again, you've been doing it since the p paleolithic.

406
00:17:07.385 --> 00:17:10.345
I quite like that. The P and PMO stands for Paleolithic now.

407
00:17:10.345 --> 00:17:13.465
Yeah. Um, so, so, uh, uh,

408
00:17:14.215 --> 00:17:15.395
you've been doing this a long time.

409
00:17:15.615 --> 00:17:17.315
You've seen success, you've seen failure.

410
00:17:17.495 --> 00:17:20.115
You're on top of the literature

411
00:17:20.115 --> 00:17:23.715
and the research, you, you know, you, you, you, you interact

412
00:17:23.745 --> 00:17:26.315
with people across, across the planet

413
00:17:26.855 --> 00:17:27.955
in different geographies,

414
00:17:27.955 --> 00:17:30.155
different sectors, and so on and so forth.

415
00:17:31.055 --> 00:17:33.955
So the question I, I put Steve, is what are,

416
00:17:33.955 --> 00:17:36.955
what are the attributes of, of a highly effective PMO?

417
00:17:37.575 --> 00:17:39.315
And Steve's very kindly pulled together a

418
00:17:39.315 --> 00:17:40.395
few slides with thoughts.

419
00:17:40.395 --> 00:17:42.475
So should we, should we, should we jump off

420
00:17:42.475 --> 00:17:43.515
over into, into that?

421
00:17:44.715 --> 00:17:45.955
Absolutely. You can see the slides.

422
00:17:46.255 --> 00:17:48.035
Can you or, or do I have to share? Not yet. No.

423
00:17:48.055 --> 00:17:50.245
Not you'll need to share. You'll need to share to share.

424
00:17:51.445 --> 00:17:53.115
Lemme, if you've got a problem that I can share,

425
00:17:53.885 --> 00:17:55.355
Share. Oh, because

426
00:17:55.585 --> 00:17:56.585
Here we go. Something's

427
00:17:56.585 --> 00:17:58.195
coming. That's it. We got it. We

428
00:17:58.195 --> 00:17:59.195
Got, cool. I just

429
00:17:59.195 --> 00:18:00.875
ask that question. What does the P stand to?

430
00:18:00.995 --> 00:18:02.555
Absolute. It's a really important point. I'm doing a talk

431
00:18:02.575 --> 00:18:06.555
to the PMO conference in Edburg in November.

432
00:18:07.235 --> 00:18:08.555
I work up the night one.

433
00:18:08.995 --> 00:18:10.195
'cause they're all gonna be sitting there thinking,

434
00:18:10.215 --> 00:18:13.915
I'm talking about project and program, no portfolios.

435
00:18:13.975 --> 00:18:16.915
I'm talking about portfolio, portfolio management offices.

436
00:18:17.845 --> 00:18:19.595
Difference between, you know,

437
00:18:19.595 --> 00:18:21.755
because the portfolio level, we're concerned

438
00:18:21.755 --> 00:18:24.315
with the investment management stuff

439
00:18:24.535 --> 00:18:26.035
and the con the delivery

440
00:18:26.135 --> 00:18:29.435
or at least enabling, facilitating the delivery.

441
00:18:29.615 --> 00:18:31.755
So yeah, I mean, there's the,

442
00:18:31.815 --> 00:18:33.475
the new guide, uh, is coming out soon.

443
00:18:34.215 --> 00:18:35.475
I'm not trying to sell anything here,

444
00:18:35.495 --> 00:18:38.595
but just to give an overview of what the guide, uh, the,

445
00:18:38.815 --> 00:18:40.355
the, the framework on the slides.

446
00:18:40.385 --> 00:18:42.195
Come on. Come on. Why aren't the slides?

447
00:18:45.835 --> 00:18:47.025
Let's, ah,

448
00:18:48.065 --> 00:18:49.065
There we go.

449
00:18:49.155 --> 00:18:50.895
Who needs artificial intelligence, Stuart?

450
00:18:51.045 --> 00:18:52.975
Good. Um, I'll settle

451
00:18:53.075 --> 00:18:54.255
For any intelligence mate.

452
00:18:54.615 --> 00:18:57.975
Indeed. So what we're saying in managing portfolios, the,

453
00:18:58.155 --> 00:19:00.095
the new guide, uh, is, uh,

454
00:19:00.115 --> 00:19:02.055
we have on the right hand side portfolio design.

455
00:19:02.075 --> 00:19:04.735
So designing the portfolio, scoping

456
00:19:04.775 --> 00:19:08.695
and structure in the portfolio, the portfolio strategy, um,

457
00:19:08.805 --> 00:19:11.855
understanding what is happening, what, what projects

458
00:19:11.855 --> 00:19:13.735
and programs do we have prioritizing,

459
00:19:13.905 --> 00:19:18.015
optimizing the very core of, uh, portfolio management.

460
00:19:18.515 --> 00:19:19.975
Um, 'cause in, in essence,

461
00:19:19.975 --> 00:19:21.695
portfolio management is about three things.

462
00:19:22.465 --> 00:19:25.855
Twice. First of all, it's about doing the right things.

463
00:19:26.315 --> 00:19:29.455
So it's optimize, uh, prioritization and optimization.

464
00:19:30.155 --> 00:19:32.575
And it's about doing the things right.

465
00:19:33.315 --> 00:19:35.175
Uh, so we remove the barriers to delivery,

466
00:19:35.185 --> 00:19:37.335
which also includes doing them at the right time.

467
00:19:37.475 --> 00:19:41.655
So we manage the flow of work, uh, to optimize the delivery.

468
00:19:42.035 --> 00:19:43.015
And if we're doing the right things,

469
00:19:43.015 --> 00:19:43.935
then we're delivering them.

470
00:19:43.935 --> 00:19:46.415
Then hopefully we're gonna realize the value

471
00:19:46.415 --> 00:19:48.215
or realize, uh, the benefits.

472
00:19:48.235 --> 00:19:52.215
So we have these two, um, two dimensions

473
00:19:52.215 --> 00:19:54.735
of portfolio management, the design, the delivery.

474
00:19:55.395 --> 00:19:59.575
We have principles that underpin the effectiveness, uh, or

475
00:19:59.575 --> 00:20:03.375
and efficiency of portfolio management on the left hand side

476
00:20:03.995 --> 00:20:08.855
and move on to talk about, I saw a a a a, um, one

477
00:20:08.855 --> 00:20:11.335
of the comments by, uh, uh, shock just a minute ago.

478
00:20:11.335 --> 00:20:12.895
And he talked about no one that gives you anything.

479
00:20:13.155 --> 00:20:15.055
You know, we've got to demonstrate the value

480
00:20:15.055 --> 00:20:16.335
or worse to that effect.

481
00:20:16.675 --> 00:20:18.455
How do we engage execs?

482
00:20:18.455 --> 00:20:21.775
And people say, oh, well, execs aren't engaged. Okay. Right.

483
00:20:21.775 --> 00:20:24.375
You know, so you could be a victim or maybe not.

484
00:20:24.755 --> 00:20:28.495
Um, strategic clarity governance setups. Anyway.

485
00:20:28.515 --> 00:20:31.015
So it's all, but at the very core of this,

486
00:20:31.775 --> 00:20:33.665
what I should be saying, I forgot to say it, my God,

487
00:20:34.375 --> 00:20:38.305
this is subtitled lessons, lessons from

488
00:20:38.855 --> 00:20:40.585
lessons sweep of history here.

489
00:20:41.425 --> 00:20:44.445
So Stuart went with the paleo, what was it? Stuart

490
00:20:44.875 --> 00:20:46.885
Paleolithic, Paleo Paleolithic.

491
00:20:47.065 --> 00:20:48.205
I'm going quite to that level,

492
00:20:48.225 --> 00:20:51.845
but we're going Aristotle, Shakespeare and Ella Fitzgerald.

493
00:20:51.845 --> 00:20:53.325
Platonic. Okay, we'll, we'll go platonic.

494
00:20:53.815 --> 00:20:56.165
We're gonna go, right? So Aristotle,

495
00:20:56.165 --> 00:20:58.605
Shakespeare lessons from Aristotle, Shakespeare,

496
00:20:58.905 --> 00:21:02.925
and Ella Fitzgerald, because, and it's very hard.

497
00:21:02.955 --> 00:21:04.405
I've talked about, you know, the,

498
00:21:04.425 --> 00:21:06.725
the principles under pit it on the left hand side,

499
00:21:07.235 --> 00:21:09.365
what is portfolio management, doing the right things,

500
00:21:09.815 --> 00:21:11.965
doing them right, and doing them at the right time.

501
00:21:12.465 --> 00:21:16.965
But it only works if we address these, these six, uh,

502
00:21:17.145 --> 00:21:19.885
key success characteristics that we, I refer to in the book.

503
00:21:20.645 --> 00:21:24.205
Benefits led. The, the white letters,

504
00:21:24.625 --> 00:21:26.125
the white lettering in the blue

505
00:21:26.125 --> 00:21:28.685
and the pink benefits led evidence-based, fast

506
00:21:28.685 --> 00:21:31.165
and frugal, active discipline and transparent.

507
00:21:31.745 --> 00:21:34.405
And that's Ella Fitzgerald. You know, take what you do.

508
00:21:34.405 --> 00:21:35.565
It's the way that you do it.

509
00:21:36.105 --> 00:21:37.445
You know, we can say, well, we do,

510
00:21:37.505 --> 00:21:39.725
we do portfolio management, Steve, we do prioritization.

511
00:21:39.955 --> 00:21:41.325
Well, you do, you do it well.

512
00:21:41.985 --> 00:21:44.325
You know, it's the way that you do it that matters.

513
00:21:44.865 --> 00:21:47.045
So first of all, we've learned from Ella.

514
00:21:47.865 --> 00:21:49.925
So what, the way we do things, the,

515
00:21:49.925 --> 00:21:51.765
these success characteristics, you know,

516
00:21:51.765 --> 00:21:52.765
I'm briefly have a look at this,

517
00:21:52.765 --> 00:21:56.725
and then this will, um, uh, provide a basis for hopefully

518
00:21:56.725 --> 00:21:58.405
for, uh, exploring some of the areas.

519
00:21:58.545 --> 00:22:00.525
Number one. And it has to be number one.

520
00:22:01.445 --> 00:22:03.405
'cause if you're not doing benefits, what are you doing?

521
00:22:04.025 --> 00:22:07.045
Uh, I did a session for the PMIA few years ago,

522
00:22:07.665 --> 00:22:10.485
and, um, I did my session sat down

523
00:22:11.065 --> 00:22:14.645
and they had, uh, Antonio Nieto Rodriguez talking next.

524
00:22:14.905 --> 00:22:17.485
And Antonio, Antonio, if you haven't heard of him,

525
00:22:17.745 --> 00:22:20.165
he was the past chair of PMI Global.

526
00:22:20.595 --> 00:22:23.125
He's the author of the strategy focused organiz,

527
00:22:23.145 --> 00:22:25.125
or sorry, the focused organization.

528
00:22:25.665 --> 00:22:27.645
And his session was all about, you know,

529
00:22:27.945 --> 00:22:30.325
why do senior managers not take project

530
00:22:30.325 --> 00:22:31.485
management seriously?

531
00:22:31.905 --> 00:22:33.165
And he said, does everyone agree?

532
00:22:33.185 --> 00:22:34.485
You know, senior managers just don't,

533
00:22:34.745 --> 00:22:37.005
and everyone, yeah, you know, managers don't get it.

534
00:22:37.705 --> 00:22:40.245
And I thought, God, this is, this has been a plaintiff cry

535
00:22:40.265 --> 00:22:42.965
of middle managers for the last 150 years.

536
00:22:43.345 --> 00:22:45.205
You know, senior managers don't get it.

537
00:22:45.205 --> 00:22:48.005
And when, then you get there, the junior managers

538
00:22:48.005 --> 00:22:49.605
and the middle manager will say the same thing.

539
00:22:50.565 --> 00:22:53.325
But I sat there and I thought, and it, and, and,

540
00:22:53.345 --> 00:22:55.605
and Tony had a really good analysis of why, so

541
00:22:55.605 --> 00:22:56.725
that they're not paid.

542
00:22:57.155 --> 00:23:00.285
They're paid to manage the business, not the, the change.

543
00:23:00.435 --> 00:23:02.285
They're paid. They, they're trained.

544
00:23:02.475 --> 00:23:05.245
None of the MBAs cover project management,

545
00:23:05.245 --> 00:23:06.405
or at the time, they didn't.

546
00:23:06.625 --> 00:23:09.245
And the Harvard Business Review doesn't write any articles

547
00:23:09.245 --> 00:23:10.645
about it and all this kind of stuff.

548
00:23:10.985 --> 00:23:14.595
But I sat down and thought, but if your project doesn't show

549
00:23:14.705 --> 00:23:16.835
what contribution it's gonna make to strategy,

550
00:23:17.575 --> 00:23:18.835
why would they be interested?

551
00:23:19.645 --> 00:23:22.515
You know? So if you can't show the impact

552
00:23:22.515 --> 00:23:24.235
that you're gonna make, either at a project level

553
00:23:24.255 --> 00:23:25.395
or at a portfolio level,

554
00:23:25.695 --> 00:23:27.075
that's the root of cause of the problem.

555
00:23:27.095 --> 00:23:30.035
So, number one, we need to be able to show, um,

556
00:23:31.465 --> 00:23:32.675
what difference we're gonna make.

557
00:23:32.775 --> 00:23:36.115
And, you know, the PMI paid me to do some research.

558
00:23:36.835 --> 00:23:40.115
I, I openly say, admit I would pay the PMI,

559
00:23:40.455 --> 00:23:42.915
I'd give them the money back to say what they've said.

560
00:23:43.265 --> 00:23:45.605
Project benefits synonymous

561
00:23:46.275 --> 00:23:48.725
with positive strategic impacts.

562
00:23:49.505 --> 00:23:52.805
So we talk about strategic objectives, benefits,

563
00:23:53.185 --> 00:23:55.845
and then we commission initiatives, projects,

564
00:23:55.845 --> 00:23:57.645
and programs to deliver the benefits

565
00:23:57.985 --> 00:23:59.245
to achieve our objectives.

566
00:23:59.625 --> 00:24:02.805
That's it. And you see the model on the left hand side from

567
00:24:03.205 --> 00:24:05.325
managing benefits, where you've got halfway down.

568
00:24:05.325 --> 00:24:08.005
You've got, you've got second box down rail objectives

569
00:24:08.105 --> 00:24:10.125
and linked to them rail, the benefits.

570
00:24:10.345 --> 00:24:12.125
And below that, the projects and programs.

571
00:24:12.585 --> 00:24:14.125
In a way, it's over complicating.

572
00:24:14.195 --> 00:24:17.005
Just think about, think about the OKR framework,

573
00:24:17.215 --> 00:24:20.885
which is very similar objectives, key results.

574
00:24:21.145 --> 00:24:22.965
And then you commission initiatives

575
00:24:23.145 --> 00:24:25.685
to deliver the key results that, uh,

576
00:24:25.685 --> 00:24:27.805
show you've achieved your objectives.

577
00:24:29.145 --> 00:24:31.845
The problem is no organization, every organization,

578
00:24:31.845 --> 00:24:36.145
there's no standard, um, benefits categorization system.

579
00:24:36.145 --> 00:24:39.385
So we need to develop a, um, benefits categorization system

580
00:24:39.565 --> 00:24:43.425
for our organization so that all projects then, um,

581
00:24:43.835 --> 00:24:46.025
articulate their benefits in a consistent,

582
00:24:46.485 --> 00:24:47.745
uh, a consistent way.

583
00:24:48.705 --> 00:24:51.365
Um, so what I've said, I said, sorry,

584
00:24:51.485 --> 00:24:53.405
I said benefits is about three things

585
00:24:53.405 --> 00:24:54.645
twice, and I only said it once.

586
00:24:55.145 --> 00:24:57.065
Uh, doing the right things,

587
00:24:57.395 --> 00:24:59.185
doing them right, and at the right time.

588
00:24:59.765 --> 00:25:03.625
But its portfolio management at its from, its very origins

589
00:25:04.285 --> 00:25:06.745
is about one thing, risk and return.

590
00:25:06.885 --> 00:25:09.385
You don't just look at the return on your shares,

591
00:25:09.565 --> 00:25:11.505
you look at the risk of those shares.

592
00:25:12.005 --> 00:25:13.785
So we need to bounce risk and return.

593
00:25:15.335 --> 00:25:17.435
We need to, prior to that whole, you know, that,

594
00:25:17.435 --> 00:25:20.315
that model I had with, um, six different, uh,

595
00:25:20.595 --> 00:25:23.435
practices on portfolio design, and it's very heart.

596
00:25:23.545 --> 00:25:24.635
It's about prioritization.

597
00:25:24.855 --> 00:25:29.115
Why, what is all actually awesome quote from Mark, uh,

598
00:25:29.255 --> 00:25:30.515
cipher, uh, in one

599
00:25:30.515 --> 00:25:33.275
of the P buy publications, we can do anything.

600
00:25:34.015 --> 00:25:37.755
We just can't do everything. And that sums it all up.

601
00:25:37.755 --> 00:25:39.995
We just can't do everything. You have to choose.

602
00:25:40.175 --> 00:25:42.315
If you're choosing, you've got to prioritize.

603
00:25:43.915 --> 00:25:46.055
So it's about balancing risk and return.

604
00:25:46.645 --> 00:25:48.615
It's about choosing. 'cause you have to choose.

605
00:25:48.875 --> 00:25:50.695
And thirdly, it's then about making,

606
00:25:50.715 --> 00:25:51.815
you don't just then sit back,

607
00:25:52.195 --> 00:25:53.495
you know, I'm an accountant by trading.

608
00:25:53.515 --> 00:25:55.295
So you say, oh, now we've chosen the perfect,

609
00:25:56.115 --> 00:25:58.385
we've got steward in stewards assist us.

610
00:25:58.475 --> 00:25:59.865
We've chosen the right projects.

611
00:26:00.085 --> 00:26:02.185
We can now sit back and wait till they, you know,

612
00:26:02.185 --> 00:26:03.505
the project guys deliver them.

613
00:26:03.565 --> 00:26:04.585
Our job here is done.

614
00:26:05.245 --> 00:26:08.265
No, you've actually got involved in actually removing the

615
00:26:08.425 --> 00:26:10.865
barriers to delivery, make sure we actually do de uh,

616
00:26:10.865 --> 00:26:12.145
deliver the projects and programs

617
00:26:12.405 --> 00:26:14.905
and that we realize, uh, the benefits.

618
00:26:16.285 --> 00:26:19.785
So benefits, benefits comes, comes firstly. Um,

619
00:26:21.675 --> 00:26:23.615
Can, can I, again, can I jump, but just, just

620
00:26:23.615 --> 00:26:24.815
before you move on Yeah.

621
00:26:24.815 --> 00:26:29.255
Can I just jump in and and dig just one slight level deeper?

622
00:26:29.255 --> 00:26:31.575
Because one of the, one of the things that people struggle

623
00:26:31.575 --> 00:26:34.695
with, um, if you just jump back a slide, Steve.

624
00:26:34.955 --> 00:26:37.255
Oh, cool. One of the things people struggle with thank you

625
00:26:37.875 --> 00:26:40.415
is, so you were saying, you know, strategic benefits,

626
00:26:40.735 --> 00:26:41.935
strategic benefits, strategic benefit.

627
00:26:43.305 --> 00:26:44.645
And then they turn around and say, yeah,

628
00:26:44.665 --> 00:26:46.485
but, you know, three quarters

629
00:26:46.485 --> 00:26:47.765
of our budget is going on business

630
00:26:47.765 --> 00:26:48.925
as usual, keep the lights on.

631
00:26:50.075 --> 00:26:52.685
Now, I wanna be really clear here.

632
00:26:54.025 --> 00:26:56.285
You, your strategic leaders in the organization

633
00:26:56.295 --> 00:26:57.365
don't care about that stuff.

634
00:26:57.365 --> 00:26:59.125
They don't care about the BAU stuff, right?

635
00:26:59.265 --> 00:27:02.605
If they could make it go away, they would, but they can't.

636
00:27:02.605 --> 00:27:04.445
They would put all of the energy into the,

637
00:27:04.675 --> 00:27:06.645
into the strategic change, the business project.

638
00:27:08.315 --> 00:27:10.375
But here's the, here's the important thing.

639
00:27:11.045 --> 00:27:15.175
This is not a conflict because for the BAU teams, right?

640
00:27:15.695 --> 00:27:18.615
Managing risk is one of their strategic

641
00:27:19.125 --> 00:27:20.995
drivers, right?

642
00:27:21.095 --> 00:27:23.155
And all of that BAU work that you do

643
00:27:24.285 --> 00:27:26.425
is mostly there a few other things you do in there,

644
00:27:26.525 --> 00:27:28.625
but mostly it's about managing risk in the business.

645
00:27:29.125 --> 00:27:31.945
So if you're in it, updating that database

646
00:27:33.675 --> 00:27:35.025
isn't actually a must do project,

647
00:27:35.885 --> 00:27:38.865
but it is helping reduce risk in the business, right?

648
00:27:38.945 --> 00:27:40.305
A risk that the system fails.

649
00:27:40.885 --> 00:27:42.945
You, you, you, your system goes down,

650
00:27:43.215 --> 00:27:45.585
your order processing system goes down in the middle of the,

651
00:27:45.885 --> 00:27:46.905
the run up to Christmas

652
00:27:46.925 --> 00:27:49.345
and you lose $3 million worth of sales, right?

653
00:27:50.115 --> 00:27:54.175
So, so often people will challenge this strategic thing

654
00:27:54.175 --> 00:27:56.175
and say, oh no, but we do BAU stuff, right?

655
00:27:56.895 --> 00:27:58.255
BAU stuff is strategic.

656
00:27:58.305 --> 00:28:01.255
Every part of the organization has its strategic goals.

657
00:28:01.755 --> 00:28:03.015
And just to, to, to kind of

658
00:28:03.795 --> 00:28:05.615
wasn't gonna go here, but let, let's go here.

659
00:28:05.965 --> 00:28:07.855
What you're pointing out, Stuart, is

660
00:28:07.855 --> 00:28:10.295
that when we talk about benefits, in a way,

661
00:28:10.295 --> 00:28:12.295
you can talk about there are financial benefits

662
00:28:12.295 --> 00:28:13.775
and the non-financial benefits.

663
00:28:14.135 --> 00:28:15.415
Absolutely. The thing that worries me,

664
00:28:15.415 --> 00:28:17.055
me in government is when they say there are financial

665
00:28:17.375 --> 00:28:18.575
benefits and the non-financial,

666
00:28:18.575 --> 00:28:20.695
and I say, why did you put financial first?

667
00:28:21.495 --> 00:28:23.115
The job of the Department of Education

668
00:28:23.735 --> 00:28:24.875
is not to spend money.

669
00:28:25.605 --> 00:28:27.705
The job of the Department of Education is to improve,

670
00:28:27.735 --> 00:28:29.865
deliver improved educational services.

671
00:28:30.155 --> 00:28:32.385
Those me, the measures of that should come first.

672
00:28:32.605 --> 00:28:33.985
The financial staff should come second.

673
00:28:34.365 --> 00:28:37.065
Um, but there's financial, non-financial,

674
00:28:37.325 --> 00:28:39.625
but it's the kind of the benefits associated

675
00:28:39.655 --> 00:28:42.025
with the positive benefits improvements.

676
00:28:42.565 --> 00:28:44.945
But there's also the avoidance of the bad things

677
00:28:44.945 --> 00:28:47.505
that would happen if we don't maintain business as usual.

678
00:28:47.565 --> 00:28:50.305
And you'll see that in that model on the right hand side,

679
00:28:50.845 --> 00:28:52.345
two of the two boxes at the bottom,

680
00:28:52.685 --> 00:28:55.025
one was about sustaining business operations.

681
00:28:55.685 --> 00:28:56.945
So this is anything that we do.

682
00:28:57.165 --> 00:28:58.745
The benefit is the avoidance of

683
00:28:58.745 --> 00:29:02.095
what would happen if we didn't maintain business operations.

684
00:29:02.595 --> 00:29:04.135
And you've got the license to operate.

685
00:29:04.135 --> 00:29:05.775
In other words, complying with the law,

686
00:29:06.125 --> 00:29:07.455
complying with regulations.

687
00:29:07.455 --> 00:29:08.735
There are certain things you have to do

688
00:29:08.875 --> 00:29:11.745
or maybe don't have, sometimes you have to do.

689
00:29:11.745 --> 00:29:14.145
Sometimes we do it because we're trying to, it's our license

690
00:29:14.165 --> 00:29:15.465
to operate in society.

691
00:29:16.245 --> 00:29:19.265
Um, and so we have the, those two different,

692
00:29:19.365 --> 00:29:21.025
and those are two different types of value.

693
00:29:21.405 --> 00:29:24.145
So we need to have ways of articulating that

694
00:29:24.325 --> 00:29:26.985
and ways of saying, well, where, what should the balance

695
00:29:27.655 --> 00:29:31.625
between these various, um, you see

696
00:29:31.625 --> 00:29:33.305
that I've turned them investment drivers.

697
00:29:33.405 --> 00:29:36.265
The idea is that you would then categorize your portfolio

698
00:29:36.285 --> 00:29:37.705
and split your portfolio in.

699
00:29:37.705 --> 00:29:41.365
So if you've got initiatives that set out to save money

700
00:29:41.465 --> 00:29:44.485
or generate revenue, they shouldn't have to compete

701
00:29:44.755 --> 00:29:47.765
with initiatives that are keeping the lights on in other,

702
00:29:47.785 --> 00:29:50.165
you split your portfolio up into say,

703
00:29:50.425 --> 00:29:53.045
6, 7, 8, 4, whatever it is, categories.

704
00:29:53.745 --> 00:29:56.085
The first decision you make, this is why Bob Cooper called,

705
00:29:56.085 --> 00:29:57.125
doesn't call 'em categories.

706
00:29:57.125 --> 00:29:59.565
He calls them strategic buckets.

707
00:30:00.705 --> 00:30:03.445
And you've decided how much money are we gonna put into

708
00:30:03.595 --> 00:30:04.725
keeping the lights on?

709
00:30:04.745 --> 00:30:07.685
How much money are we gonna put into income generation?

710
00:30:07.785 --> 00:30:09.885
How much are we gonna put into, you know,

711
00:30:09.885 --> 00:30:11.445
improving educational services?

712
00:30:11.945 --> 00:30:13.405
And then once you've made, that's, so in other words,

713
00:30:13.405 --> 00:30:14.485
that's a strategic decision.

714
00:30:14.825 --> 00:30:17.205
And then projects then compete within those

715
00:30:17.235 --> 00:30:18.445
buckets for funding.

716
00:30:19.025 --> 00:30:20.645
And, and, and one of the things, so,

717
00:30:20.665 --> 00:30:22.365
so we use this concept of buckets as well,

718
00:30:22.365 --> 00:30:24.005
and we, the way we talk about it is

719
00:30:24.005 --> 00:30:26.125
that people will often say to us, you know,

720
00:30:26.125 --> 00:30:27.725
you can't compare apples with oranges.

721
00:30:28.325 --> 00:30:30.245
Actually you can, you absolutely can

722
00:30:30.245 --> 00:30:31.325
compare apples and oranges.

723
00:30:31.325 --> 00:30:34.725
They're both fruit and they are there to be nutritious,

724
00:30:34.935 --> 00:30:37.485
tasty, look good, all that kind of good stuff, right?

725
00:30:38.335 --> 00:30:40.825
What you can't do is compare apples with elephants

726
00:30:41.425 --> 00:30:44.075
because they're not there for the same purpose, right?

727
00:30:44.075 --> 00:30:45.475
Yeah. We know what apples are there for.

728
00:30:45.815 --> 00:30:46.955
I'm not sure what elephants are

729
00:30:46.955 --> 00:30:48.035
there for, if I'm honest, right?

730
00:30:48.095 --> 00:30:50.235
But, but they're there for something, right?

731
00:30:50.415 --> 00:30:52.475
And so you can't compare apples and elephants.

732
00:30:53.175 --> 00:30:55.275
So apples and oranges, you can absolutely compare,

733
00:30:55.275 --> 00:30:56.555
but apples and elephants, you can't.

734
00:30:56.555 --> 00:30:58.515
So you have to split them apart and,

735
00:30:58.575 --> 00:31:00.315
and make a conscious decision of

736
00:31:00.315 --> 00:31:01.435
how much you put into each bucket.

737
00:31:02.175 --> 00:31:04.275
And you know, again, when you're doing it right, I,

738
00:31:04.315 --> 00:31:05.835
I don't wanna go too far down this rabbit hole

739
00:31:05.995 --> 00:31:07.075
'cause I could spend an hour on this,

740
00:31:07.495 --> 00:31:09.675
but when you do it right, you know, you have this sort

741
00:31:09.675 --> 00:31:12.195
of slightly iterative process where you, you you sort of,

742
00:31:13.015 --> 00:31:16.705
um, you know, you're able to see, uh, because,

743
00:31:16.705 --> 00:31:18.185
because for every portfolio, each

744
00:31:18.185 --> 00:31:20.745
of those buckets is gonna have some projects

745
00:31:20.745 --> 00:31:22.265
that are really high value for money

746
00:31:22.265 --> 00:31:23.745
and others that are lower value for money.

747
00:31:24.125 --> 00:31:25.465
So you wanna be trying to balance

748
00:31:26.035 --> 00:31:27.625
where you are on the efficient frontier.

749
00:31:27.625 --> 00:31:29.265
Steve, we were talking about that before the session. Yeah.

750
00:31:29.265 --> 00:31:32.065
AB absolutely where you are on that efficient frontier

751
00:31:32.065 --> 00:31:33.065
for each of those buckets

752
00:31:33.065 --> 00:31:36.585
and actually move money around between the buckets.

753
00:31:36.585 --> 00:31:39.945
But yeah, but there's also a, another added value,

754
00:31:39.945 --> 00:31:42.065
which is the, what you are talking about

755
00:31:42.125 --> 00:31:43.225
as business as usual.

756
00:31:43.245 --> 00:31:45.105
But really we're talking about, I suppose from my

757
00:31:45.105 --> 00:31:47.305
perspective, is mandatory projects, the some

758
00:31:47.305 --> 00:31:48.265
with mandatory projects,

759
00:31:48.265 --> 00:31:49.625
there's a lot of them are mandatory.

760
00:31:50.125 --> 00:31:51.585
You know, people like to say them.

761
00:31:51.805 --> 00:31:54.585
You know, I used to, when I talk to, I used to say

762
00:31:55.185 --> 00:31:57.545
a conference, anyone from it here, you know,

763
00:31:57.545 --> 00:32:00.385
you get hands goes say, sorry, you know what,

764
00:32:00.385 --> 00:32:04.115
talk about Y 2K stuff about it was Christmas come early

765
00:32:04.175 --> 00:32:06.075
for the IT guys, everything got put

766
00:32:06.075 --> 00:32:07.395
through as a what we gotta do.

767
00:32:07.395 --> 00:32:09.195
It was Y 2K, half of it didn't,

768
00:32:09.335 --> 00:32:10.595
you know, it was just an invention.

769
00:32:11.015 --> 00:32:13.995
So if you give people, if you allow them a mandatory,

770
00:32:13.995 --> 00:32:16.755
often say, you know, they, they, they fixate,

771
00:32:16.755 --> 00:32:19.315
they say we have to do it, but why do you have to do it?

772
00:32:19.615 --> 00:32:21.795
Is, and is this the best way of doing it?

773
00:32:21.815 --> 00:32:23.435
Are there other ways in which we could,

774
00:32:23.455 --> 00:32:25.035
we could do it more cost effectively

775
00:32:25.415 --> 00:32:28.715
by having a strategic bucket for the mandatory stuff?

776
00:32:29.605 --> 00:32:32.185
You know, maybe, I know HMRC at one point when they started

777
00:32:32.185 --> 00:32:34.585
doing this, they said, alright, god, 80%

778
00:32:34.585 --> 00:32:36.145
of our spend is on the mandatory stuff.

779
00:32:36.725 --> 00:32:39.525
And the guy in charge, really brilliant guy said, great,

780
00:32:39.665 --> 00:32:41.085
but at least now we know that

781
00:32:41.745 --> 00:32:45.165
and we can say, well, we want to reduce that 80 to,

782
00:32:45.185 --> 00:32:47.165
you know, 60% over the next three

783
00:32:47.165 --> 00:32:50.925
or four years so that we get more money in the, you know,

784
00:32:50.925 --> 00:32:52.325
adding strategic value bucket

785
00:32:52.505 --> 00:32:54.085
and get it away from the mandatory bucket.

786
00:32:54.085 --> 00:32:56.645
So they're able to manage that over a period of time.

787
00:32:57.625 --> 00:32:59.005
And, and you can do that.

788
00:32:59.745 --> 00:33:02.885
You to do that, you, you have to, you have

789
00:33:02.885 --> 00:33:06.725
to get outta this concept of it being binary have

790
00:33:06.725 --> 00:33:07.765
to do or not have to do.

791
00:33:08.035 --> 00:33:10.605
Yeah. It's about how much risk do you introduce?

792
00:33:10.825 --> 00:33:13.125
How much risk do you leave in the business if you don't do

793
00:33:13.125 --> 00:33:14.685
this right?

794
00:33:15.305 --> 00:33:17.925
And then understand which investments are going

795
00:33:17.925 --> 00:33:19.125
to help you manage the risk

796
00:33:19.125 --> 00:33:21.845
and which investments are just being tagged as must do.

797
00:33:21.935 --> 00:33:23.845
Right? And there's lots of them.

798
00:33:24.385 --> 00:33:26.125
And that point about, and at the right time,

799
00:33:26.125 --> 00:33:28.085
because it may well be the time we have to do it,

800
00:33:28.085 --> 00:33:30.765
but let's, let's, we can't do all of that this year.

801
00:33:31.185 --> 00:33:32.845
So let's push some of that back.

802
00:33:33.295 --> 00:33:35.045
Maybe we could do some of it this year,

803
00:33:35.115 --> 00:33:36.525
some next year, some the year after.

804
00:33:37.105 --> 00:33:39.205
Um, so you're absolutely right. It's not binary.

805
00:33:39.475 --> 00:33:41.405
This is, and this, so there is no right,

806
00:33:41.665 --> 00:33:43.675
you know, doing the right things.

807
00:33:43.765 --> 00:33:46.355
There is, this is a value judgment. That's

808
00:33:46.355 --> 00:33:47.355
Right. And it's about

809
00:33:47.355 --> 00:33:49.275
trying to reach an understanding,

810
00:33:49.915 --> 00:33:53.395
a commitment by senior managers to what is the best use

811
00:33:53.495 --> 00:33:56.035
of the limited resources at our disposal.

812
00:33:56.735 --> 00:33:58.475
So I would love to go on

813
00:33:58.475 --> 00:34:00.995
and talk about how a HP is the best way to do this

814
00:34:01.055 --> 00:34:02.075
and all that kind of good stuff.

815
00:34:02.095 --> 00:34:04.515
But we are on one of six. Let's keep going.

816
00:34:04.515 --> 00:34:06.555
Number two of six is, uh, this is

817
00:34:06.555 --> 00:34:07.795
where a HP actually comes in.

818
00:34:08.055 --> 00:34:09.435
You know what it's an example of.

819
00:34:09.535 --> 00:34:11.115
We needs to be evidence-based.

820
00:34:11.315 --> 00:34:14.985
I turn my notes because I have to say, you know,

821
00:34:14.985 --> 00:34:18.425
when you look out the window as I'm now, we see the impact

822
00:34:18.425 --> 00:34:21.985
of a guy called William Edwards Deming everywhere.

823
00:34:22.125 --> 00:34:25.275
And many people listening will never have heard

824
00:34:25.275 --> 00:34:26.755
of William Edwards Deming.

825
00:34:26.855 --> 00:34:31.515
Deming is the guy that the Japanese credit with the,

826
00:34:32.235 --> 00:34:34.695
um, economic, Japanese economic miracle

827
00:34:35.265 --> 00:34:36.615
after the second World war.

828
00:34:37.045 --> 00:34:38.935
He's thinking about statistical analysis,

829
00:34:38.935 --> 00:34:41.895
about systems thinking total quality management.

830
00:34:41.925 --> 00:34:44.255
He's the godfather of total quality management and

831
00:34:44.255 --> 00:34:47.135
therefore the godfather of grandfather of lean and,

832
00:34:47.155 --> 00:34:48.295
and all that kind of good stuff.

833
00:34:48.955 --> 00:34:53.355
And Deming said, trust in God, but all lovers bring data.

834
00:34:54.415 --> 00:34:55.435
We need to have data.

835
00:34:55.995 --> 00:34:58.835
I mean, uh, can't, one of the guys' names he said,

836
00:34:59.015 --> 00:35:01.275
he said in government, he said, asking

837
00:35:01.335 --> 00:35:04.595
for data is a bit like asking a 4-year-old to eat broccoli.

838
00:35:04.895 --> 00:35:06.075
You know, it ain't gonna happen.

839
00:35:06.575 --> 00:35:07.955
You know, people like, I'm a

840
00:35:07.955 --> 00:35:09.155
professional, I don't need editor.

841
00:35:09.495 --> 00:35:11.195
Yes, you do. That's the whole point.

842
00:35:11.855 --> 00:35:13.995
Um, so it needs to be evidence-based.

843
00:35:14.455 --> 00:35:17.555
Um, so use techniques that have been shown to work.

844
00:35:18.035 --> 00:35:20.555
I mean, I saying this stupid fine, the red pill,

845
00:35:20.575 --> 00:35:23.515
the blue pill from Matrix, that whole, I mean,

846
00:35:23.935 --> 00:35:25.075
I'm an accountant by training.

847
00:35:25.295 --> 00:35:28.235
I'm trained to use MPV, I know the strengths

848
00:35:28.235 --> 00:35:29.515
and weaknesses of MPV.

849
00:35:29.655 --> 00:35:33.635
We behave as if MPV was in Violet, that the results

850
00:35:33.695 --> 00:35:36.195
of an MPV calculation are, you know,

851
00:35:36.545 --> 00:35:39.645
they're handed down from on high, they're not,

852
00:35:40.065 --> 00:35:41.445
you know, it's unreliable.

853
00:35:41.445 --> 00:35:43.965
Most business goes bent flu you business book of a year.

854
00:35:44.955 --> 00:35:48.175
You know, he says, you know, there is a fallacy at the heart

855
00:35:48.175 --> 00:35:51.495
of cost benefit analysis, not, it's a little bit out.

856
00:35:51.715 --> 00:35:54.695
No, it's wildly out guys. Yeah.

857
00:35:54.795 --> 00:35:56.895
And everyone goes, isn't that interesting? Right?

858
00:35:56.895 --> 00:35:59.135
What's the MPV? You know, it, it's insane.

859
00:36:00.105 --> 00:36:01.685
We need to use it.

860
00:36:01.685 --> 00:36:03.005
Doesn't mean you don't do MPV,

861
00:36:03.005 --> 00:36:04.285
but it means you need to look at things

862
00:36:04.285 --> 00:36:05.525
from more than one perspective.

863
00:36:06.525 --> 00:36:09.265
It needs to be evidence-based. That's one aspect there.

864
00:36:09.535 --> 00:36:10.945
Navy seals make, make, uh,

865
00:36:10.945 --> 00:36:13.345
mantra slow is smooth and smooth is fast.

866
00:36:13.845 --> 00:36:16.465
You know, managing your delivery of projects.

867
00:36:16.465 --> 00:36:18.785
Don't just start everything as quickly as you can.

868
00:36:19.485 --> 00:36:22.345
You, you, uh, you stagger the delivery of projects

869
00:36:22.345 --> 00:36:24.385
and programs within the constraints.

870
00:36:24.935 --> 00:36:26.305
It's called Theory of constraints.

871
00:36:26.665 --> 00:36:30.585
Brilliant, brilliant stuff about, um, managing the delivery

872
00:36:30.845 --> 00:36:32.105
so it matches the constraints,

873
00:36:32.125 --> 00:36:33.905
the resources within the organization.

874
00:36:34.845 --> 00:36:37.105
So that's one aspect, or two aspects

875
00:36:37.105 --> 00:36:40.185
or three aspects of being evidence-based using, making sure

876
00:36:40.185 --> 00:36:42.825
that you use reference task forecasting in

877
00:36:42.825 --> 00:36:44.065
your business cases, for example.

878
00:36:45.085 --> 00:36:46.985
So we've got some evidence, some confidence.

879
00:36:47.305 --> 00:36:49.545
I love Annie Duke's, uh, you know, um,

880
00:36:49.745 --> 00:36:52.345
thinking in thinking in bets, you know,

881
00:36:52.345 --> 00:36:54.145
if Thomas someone says, this is gonna be worth

882
00:36:54.145 --> 00:36:55.425
20,000, you go, yeah.

883
00:36:55.445 --> 00:36:58.135
Do you wanna bet? And that forced me.

884
00:36:58.435 --> 00:37:01.995
So what's the chance that it won't be, we need

885
00:37:01.995 --> 00:37:03.195
to be looking not just benefits,

886
00:37:03.215 --> 00:37:06.155
but what's the likelihood of those benefits being realized?

887
00:37:06.295 --> 00:37:08.955
And this is what I said to someone from Australia recently.

888
00:37:09.735 --> 00:37:11.995
Uh, she said, Steve, you know, our forecasts are

889
00:37:11.995 --> 00:37:13.195
so wildly inaccurate.

890
00:37:13.375 --> 00:37:15.555
We want to adopt reference class forecasting.

891
00:37:15.745 --> 00:37:16.915
What should we do? I said, well,

892
00:37:16.915 --> 00:37:18.555
you can't do reference class forecasting

893
00:37:18.675 --> 00:37:19.755
'cause you haven't got a reference class.

894
00:37:20.335 --> 00:37:21.595
But what you should be doing

895
00:37:21.595 --> 00:37:24.395
to people when they put the forecast in, you say,

896
00:37:24.575 --> 00:37:25.635
how confident are you?

897
00:37:26.405 --> 00:37:29.595
Yeah. Are, yeah, 80%. Are you 60%?

898
00:37:29.615 --> 00:37:31.435
Oh, she's, no, I don't think they're ready for

899
00:37:31.435 --> 00:37:32.715
that blue pill.

900
00:37:32.985 --> 00:37:36.475
Yeah, blue pill. Why not? Why not? Why not?

901
00:37:37.095 --> 00:37:38.875
So, but the other aspect,

902
00:37:38.935 --> 00:37:40.035
And so, so as well,

903
00:37:40.035 --> 00:37:41.515
so here's a, here's a quick thing, right?

904
00:37:41.655 --> 00:37:46.105
So, so, um, there's a, there's a lot of this where

905
00:37:47.045 --> 00:37:51.545
people think data means something that you can go out

906
00:37:51.545 --> 00:37:54.025
and measure, but sometimes data is subjective.

907
00:37:54.145 --> 00:37:56.465
A lot of what you just talked about is subjective, right?

908
00:37:56.535 --> 00:37:57.625
That is data as well.

909
00:37:58.555 --> 00:38:00.895
Abs. Absolutely. I mean, Kaplan

910
00:38:00.895 --> 00:38:02.825
and Norton, uh,

911
00:38:02.885 --> 00:38:04.825
the balance scorecard guys. Balance scorecard.

912
00:38:04.825 --> 00:38:06.465
Yeah. Yeah. When it was first came out,

913
00:38:06.465 --> 00:38:08.105
and I remember sitting in a room

914
00:38:08.565 --> 00:38:10.265
and someone said, what about with this kind

915
00:38:10.265 --> 00:38:11.785
of the softer stuff, you know?

916
00:38:12.285 --> 00:38:14.145
And one of them, either Kaplan

917
00:38:14.145 --> 00:38:16.625
or Autum said, if you say you can't measure it,

918
00:38:16.625 --> 00:38:17.785
you're not trying hard enough.

919
00:38:18.245 --> 00:38:20.665
You know? And I always say, look, you know, I remember when,

920
00:38:20.725 --> 00:38:23.185
uh, bad example, a bit aged now,

921
00:38:23.205 --> 00:38:27.455
but you know, the, um, uh, um, God,

922
00:38:29.835 --> 00:38:31.525
what they called, oh nevermind, sorry.

923
00:38:31.585 --> 00:38:33.485
But anyway, you know, from we measure

924
00:38:33.485 --> 00:38:34.565
gross domestic product.

925
00:38:35.335 --> 00:38:38.065
Yeah. They actually started measuring, um,

926
00:38:38.115 --> 00:38:40.465
David Cameron one, his prime minister says, I want you

927
00:38:40.465 --> 00:38:42.025
to measure national wellbeing.

928
00:38:42.325 --> 00:38:43.985
If you can measure national wellbeing,

929
00:38:44.005 --> 00:38:46.345
you can bloody well measure the benefits from your project.

930
00:38:46.675 --> 00:38:48.105
Don't tell me you can't measure them.

931
00:38:48.585 --> 00:38:51.105
'cause people say, how would we know? If you wanna know

932
00:38:51.105 --> 00:38:53.825
about customer satisfaction, go and ask the customer.

933
00:38:53.825 --> 00:38:55.425
Go and ask them. Yeah, absolutely.

934
00:38:55.425 --> 00:38:58.225
Ask them and engage with them. Really engage with them.

935
00:38:58.725 --> 00:39:01.785
Um, yet too often we, we treat them as,

936
00:39:02.005 --> 00:39:04.705
as this Ken Miller said, like in government, he said,

937
00:39:04.705 --> 00:39:06.825
we treat customers like hostages.

938
00:39:07.205 --> 00:39:10.645
You know, they're caught. So we need to engage.

939
00:39:10.675 --> 00:39:12.525
It's about, this is why benefits management

940
00:39:12.545 --> 00:39:13.845
and portfolio management,

941
00:39:13.845 --> 00:39:16.205
they are stakeholder led practices.

942
00:39:16.345 --> 00:39:17.765
And as you're absolutely right, Stuart,

943
00:39:17.995 --> 00:39:19.885
data doesn't necessarily mean numbers.

944
00:39:20.955 --> 00:39:22.775
It can mean, you know, softer,

945
00:39:22.835 --> 00:39:24.855
but nevertheless, this is the most important stuff.

946
00:39:25.255 --> 00:39:26.735
Engaging. What are their perceptions?

947
00:39:26.755 --> 00:39:28.695
One of the things I did when we were working,

948
00:39:28.895 --> 00:39:30.175
I was working on the Telus once program,

949
00:39:30.995 --> 00:39:32.615
and they'll collect all sorts of data.

950
00:39:32.915 --> 00:39:35.175
And I said to the program director, if I could tell you

951
00:39:35.405 --> 00:39:38.215
that 95% of chief execs in England

952
00:39:38.215 --> 00:39:40.975
and Wales say it's made a significant difference,

953
00:39:41.165 --> 00:39:42.415
what can that do for you, Lynn?

954
00:39:42.595 --> 00:39:43.855
She says, absolutely, Steve.

955
00:39:44.475 --> 00:39:46.295
So you have to ask chief execs,

956
00:39:46.635 --> 00:39:48.935
ask department managers, what difference does it make?

957
00:39:49.515 --> 00:39:53.695
You know, you know, significant, minimal, non-negative.

958
00:39:54.005 --> 00:39:55.855
Tell us. We should, we should know that.

959
00:39:56.435 --> 00:39:58.295
So it's qualitative as well as quantitative.

960
00:39:58.295 --> 00:39:59.975
There's nothing wrong with quantitative data.

961
00:40:00.555 --> 00:40:02.055
So I'll tell you what we let, let's,

962
00:40:02.055 --> 00:40:03.695
let's move on just before we do this.

963
00:40:03.695 --> 00:40:05.735
There's, there's one piece as well, which is that some

964
00:40:05.735 --> 00:40:07.695
of the data is also subjective.

965
00:40:08.235 --> 00:40:09.695
And where you just gotta make a judgment.

966
00:40:09.955 --> 00:40:11.135
And when you have that,

967
00:40:11.735 --> 00:40:14.495
whenever you make so, so often just coming up

968
00:40:14.495 --> 00:40:16.335
with an estimate for a project, it's subjective.

969
00:40:16.335 --> 00:40:18.815
Someone's making a subjective judgment on how big it's,

970
00:40:19.355 --> 00:40:21.575
and so there are some really nice techniques you can use

971
00:40:21.575 --> 00:40:23.615
there to improve the quality of that data really quickly.

972
00:40:24.605 --> 00:40:27.105
Um, so, so, um, uh,

973
00:40:27.225 --> 00:40:29.465
and we built some of this into our, our software as well.

974
00:40:29.725 --> 00:40:32.665
So there's a, there's a, a pretty simple process

975
00:40:32.895 --> 00:40:35.385
that you can go through where you, you get, you know,

976
00:40:35.465 --> 00:40:37.185
a number of people together and you ask them all

977
00:40:37.185 --> 00:40:38.305
to estimate the same thing.

978
00:40:38.915 --> 00:40:43.215
Yep. And then do that independently. Delphi and Delphi.

979
00:40:43.215 --> 00:40:44.375
That's right. Yep. Delphi.

980
00:40:44.475 --> 00:40:46.935
So you, you do it independently, then you reveal the answers

981
00:40:46.955 --> 00:40:48.375
and, and you have a discussion about it.

982
00:40:48.375 --> 00:40:50.135
And then you take the, everybody moves around their votes,

983
00:40:50.135 --> 00:40:51.295
and then you take the average, they're

984
00:40:51.295 --> 00:40:52.575
Allowed to revisit. Absolutely.

985
00:40:52.955 --> 00:40:54.135
And, and when you do that,

986
00:40:54.555 --> 00:40:56.455
the noise just collapses right down.

987
00:40:56.455 --> 00:40:57.775
You're not gonna eliminate the noise.

988
00:40:57.805 --> 00:40:59.255
It's still gonna be a subjective judgment.

989
00:40:59.285 --> 00:41:03.135
It's gonna be a lot, lot better. Uh, wisdom of

990
00:41:03.135 --> 00:41:05.215
Ground Judgment, wisdom of the, we call it,

991
00:41:05.395 --> 00:41:07.895
we call Delphi Wisdom of the very small crowd. Yeah,

992
00:41:08.215 --> 00:41:09.215
Absolutely. There's a brilliant,

993
00:41:09.215 --> 00:41:10.895
I there's a, anyone wants it?

994
00:41:10.965 --> 00:41:13.535
Send me the, send me an email afterwards or a link, um,

995
00:41:13.915 --> 00:41:15.535
or the Stewart, then send it to me.

996
00:41:15.535 --> 00:41:19.695
There's a brilliant five minute video on the BBC.

997
00:41:19.805 --> 00:41:24.215
They did that. It's unbelievable. You, you won't believe it.

998
00:41:24.215 --> 00:41:27.775
And it, it demonstrates the power of the wisdom of crowds.

999
00:41:28.025 --> 00:41:29.535
James Sirki. Um,

1000
00:41:29.645 --> 00:41:31.615
this is all based upon statistical. This is all,

1001
00:41:31.725 --> 00:41:32.255
He's great. I

1002
00:41:32.255 --> 00:41:33.255
Love him. This is, this is

1003
00:41:33.255 --> 00:41:35.005
not, oh, this might be true.

1004
00:41:35.195 --> 00:41:37.485
This is absolutely true. It works.

1005
00:41:38.675 --> 00:41:39.815
It certainly does. Right?

1006
00:41:39.815 --> 00:41:41.375
Let's move on. Let's move on. We're,

1007
00:41:41.555 --> 00:41:44.695
Oh, uh, but I, I've got, you can't let me, my favorite

1008
00:41:45.925 --> 00:41:47.975
Shakespeare said, 'cause we've had Aristotle

1009
00:41:47.975 --> 00:41:50.375
and so we haven't, we've had Ella Fitzgerald Shakespeare

1010
00:41:50.885 --> 00:41:52.615
test in 12th Night said,

1011
00:41:52.725 --> 00:41:55.175
this fellow is wise enough to play the fall.

1012
00:41:55.855 --> 00:41:57.155
You know, the job of the fall.

1013
00:41:57.255 --> 00:42:00.075
The jester in medieval England wasn't to tell jokes.

1014
00:42:00.335 --> 00:42:03.115
It was to point out to the monarch the error of their ways,

1015
00:42:03.665 --> 00:42:06.435
because there were, you know, no one was felt brave enough

1016
00:42:06.435 --> 00:42:07.595
to challenge the Monarch.

1017
00:42:07.835 --> 00:42:09.315
'cause you know, what's gonna happen due tomorrow.

1018
00:42:09.735 --> 00:42:12.395
So the job of the fool was to, to point out.

1019
00:42:12.695 --> 00:42:16.355
So we need to have the job of the PMO is to be brave.

1020
00:42:16.535 --> 00:42:18.435
Are you as the PMO manager? Are you brave?

1021
00:42:18.575 --> 00:42:20.875
Are you wise enough to play the fool? Mm.

1022
00:42:21.595 --> 00:42:26.195
I was at the OECD in about 2004, 2005 in Paris,

1023
00:42:27.135 --> 00:42:31.275
and, um, at a meeting about benefits across the OECD

1024
00:42:31.895 --> 00:42:34.515
it programs, big IT programs and portfolios.

1025
00:42:34.935 --> 00:42:37.755
And a guy called Bob Mor from Canada stood up

1026
00:42:37.775 --> 00:42:41.375
and he said, business cases contain assumptions

1027
00:42:41.375 --> 00:42:42.695
that masqueraders facts.

1028
00:42:43.355 --> 00:42:45.535
And I sat there and I thought, cross, I wish I'd said that.

1029
00:42:45.835 --> 00:42:49.055
You know, and I wrote it down bit like a Kiran Dale

1030
00:42:49.055 --> 00:42:51.615
with his, I come to bury PMOs not to praise them.

1031
00:42:51.655 --> 00:42:52.695
I said, whoa, what a title.

1032
00:42:52.875 --> 00:42:54.815
But yeah, business cases contain

1033
00:42:54.815 --> 00:42:56.255
assumptions that masquerades effect.

1034
00:42:56.275 --> 00:42:58.095
And so someone needs to, but we don't see it.

1035
00:42:58.595 --> 00:43:01.655
We need to point the error of, of people's ways out to them.

1036
00:43:01.655 --> 00:43:05.455
So the job of the PMO part of it's to be, to fill this role.

1037
00:43:05.995 --> 00:43:07.535
And you say, well, Steve, that sounds great,

1038
00:43:07.555 --> 00:43:09.895
but Shakespeare, oh, it's so long ago.

1039
00:43:10.325 --> 00:43:12.015
Well, let's bring it up to date, shall we?

1040
00:43:12.115 --> 00:43:15.975
Daniel Kenman, Nobel Prize winning psychologist.

1041
00:43:16.275 --> 00:43:18.695
We love a good Dan Kahneman. Dan Kenman here.

1042
00:43:18.695 --> 00:43:21.335
Daniel Kenman talks about adversarial collaboration.

1043
00:43:21.565 --> 00:43:24.735
This challenge and his adversarial collaboration was based

1044
00:43:24.815 --> 00:43:27.375
upon his own work with Amos Urky,

1045
00:43:27.595 --> 00:43:30.335
who would've won the Nobel Prize if he'd still been alive.

1046
00:43:30.635 --> 00:43:32.815
But it's tversky's, uh, work

1047
00:43:32.815 --> 00:43:36.015
and conneman's work together jointly using adversarial

1048
00:43:36.215 --> 00:43:38.255
collaboration because they came from different disciplines

1049
00:43:38.355 --> 00:43:39.375
and challenged each other.

1050
00:43:39.755 --> 00:43:41.055
But if you say, well, that sounds,

1051
00:43:41.275 --> 00:43:42.935
but that's very academic, Steve.

1052
00:43:43.015 --> 00:43:45.815
I live in the real world. Give me one from the real world.

1053
00:43:46.205 --> 00:43:48.735
Okay, well how about Andy Grove at Intel?

1054
00:43:49.325 --> 00:43:53.335
Andy Grove talks about, uh, constructive confrontation.

1055
00:43:53.885 --> 00:43:57.095
It's the very heart of Intel's approach.

1056
00:43:59.005 --> 00:44:01.925
Constructive confrontation, adversarial collaboration.

1057
00:44:02.145 --> 00:44:04.645
Are you wise enough to play the full? So,

1058
00:44:05.745 --> 00:44:07.405
And, and there's a whole bunch, you know,

1059
00:44:07.405 --> 00:44:09.925
when you read into Kahneman's stuff in a little more detail,

1060
00:44:09.925 --> 00:44:12.045
there's a whole bunch of things you can do.

1061
00:44:12.965 --> 00:44:15.165
'cause adversarial can become a problem.

1062
00:44:15.665 --> 00:44:17.925
If it's I win, you lose. Right? Oh,

1063
00:44:17.925 --> 00:44:18.925
This is, sorry. This

1064
00:44:18.925 --> 00:44:20.685
is absolutely, this is gotta be,

1065
00:44:20.685 --> 00:44:21.965
there's no personalities in it.

1066
00:44:21.965 --> 00:44:25.525
This is not personal. This is about working together. Yep.

1067
00:44:25.525 --> 00:44:27.725
Because I, look, I'm an accountant. You've got lawyers.

1068
00:44:28.265 --> 00:44:30.725
If you ask an accountant for some advice,

1069
00:44:30.725 --> 00:44:31.925
he'll tell you why you can't do it.

1070
00:44:31.925 --> 00:44:33.565
You ask a lawyer, he'll tell you why you can't.

1071
00:44:33.565 --> 00:44:36.485
No, just how do we do it? How can we resolve you?

1072
00:44:36.745 --> 00:44:38.085
How do we minimize the risk?

1073
00:44:38.305 --> 00:44:39.845
How do we work collaboratively

1074
00:44:40.145 --> 00:44:41.565
to the best possible solution?

1075
00:44:42.005 --> 00:44:44.045
Absolutely. So, so anyone that wants to know more about

1076
00:44:44.045 --> 00:44:45.325
that, just, just gimme a shout

1077
00:44:45.585 --> 00:44:49.725
and, uh, I can point you to some good books, uh, um, so

1078
00:44:49.825 --> 00:44:51.205
to help you kind of think that stuff through.

1079
00:44:51.385 --> 00:44:53.485
But that's, that's great. Love that. Thanks David. This

1080
00:44:53.485 --> 00:44:54.885
Is my first book, but you can't get it anywhere.

1081
00:44:54.885 --> 00:44:56.805
It's outta a print. But it's called, it was called A Fool's

1082
00:44:56.805 --> 00:44:58.845
Errand is Realizing Benefits.

1083
00:44:58.965 --> 00:45:01.045
A fool's errand said, yeah, it is a fool's errand,

1084
00:45:01.425 --> 00:45:03.205
but only in the sense, not in the sense it can't be done,

1085
00:45:03.385 --> 00:45:04.725
but in the sense that you need to have a fool

1086
00:45:04.905 --> 00:45:06.565
to ask people, what the hell are they doing?

1087
00:45:06.665 --> 00:45:08.325
Why are you doing it? What difference would it make?

1088
00:45:08.465 --> 00:45:10.285
How will we know he is made? The difference? Love it.

1089
00:45:10.285 --> 00:45:12.005
That kind of stuff. Fast and frugal.

1090
00:45:12.005 --> 00:45:13.325
This is not rocket science guys,

1091
00:45:13.325 --> 00:45:14.685
this is, keep it simple, stupid.

1092
00:45:15.565 --> 00:45:17.245
I did some work when I, with the, uh,

1093
00:45:17.525 --> 00:45:20.085
UA European community funded, uh, program.

1094
00:45:20.565 --> 00:45:22.565
I was the UK rep on that, um,

1095
00:45:22.565 --> 00:45:24.685
looking at public sector return on it.

1096
00:45:25.185 --> 00:45:28.965
And their conclusion was that formula on the left hand side,

1097
00:45:29.265 --> 00:45:31.405
you know, they're having a laugh, really.

1098
00:45:31.565 --> 00:45:33.605
I mean, please God, how could anyone understand

1099
00:45:33.605 --> 00:45:34.845
what that was?

1100
00:45:34.845 --> 00:45:39.775
The no, the point is, as McKinsey say,

1101
00:45:40.945 --> 00:45:43.945
a handful of characteristics that are most critical.

1102
00:45:44.045 --> 00:45:45.785
So when you're making an investment decision,

1103
00:45:46.445 --> 00:45:47.545
you're gonna have criteria.

1104
00:45:48.245 --> 00:45:51.745
How many criteria? Well, Bob Cooper, professor Bob Cooper

1105
00:45:52.525 --> 00:45:55.825
new, he is the new product development portfolio management

1106
00:45:56.135 --> 00:45:58.025
guru for the last 20 years,

1107
00:45:58.125 --> 00:46:01.465
30 years probably from his research.

1108
00:46:01.525 --> 00:46:04.785
Bob Cooper says about the average, the best use average

1109
00:46:04.785 --> 00:46:06.585
of about 6.2 criteria.

1110
00:46:07.015 --> 00:46:09.515
It's, you know, a small number of criteria,

1111
00:46:09.735 --> 00:46:11.555
but you have to be disciplined about it.

1112
00:46:11.695 --> 00:46:14.795
The example on the, um, uh, the right hand side there,

1113
00:46:14.795 --> 00:46:16.995
looking at strategic fit for each initiative,

1114
00:46:16.995 --> 00:46:20.035
look at strategic fit, it scale, the financial benefits.

1115
00:46:20.175 --> 00:46:22.955
You add those 2, 5 2 scores up, gives you a score at a 10.

1116
00:46:23.575 --> 00:46:25.675
So that's the attractiveness side of it,

1117
00:46:25.895 --> 00:46:28.915
or the return, the strategic fit and financial benefits.

1118
00:46:28.975 --> 00:46:31.715
He says, Steve, what happened to, to risk?

1119
00:46:32.025 --> 00:46:35.115
Well, looking from Achievability, they looked at the scale

1120
00:46:35.115 --> 00:46:37.715
of behavioral change and the scale of business change.

1121
00:46:37.715 --> 00:46:40.035
This was from a, a transportation, uh,

1122
00:46:40.035 --> 00:46:42.195
organization from a few years ago.

1123
00:46:42.415 --> 00:46:46.235
So it was a way of, of adding up getting a, a score at a 10

1124
00:46:46.735 --> 00:46:47.995
for attractiveness and

1125
00:46:47.995 --> 00:46:49.875
for achievability zip on a little bit.

1126
00:46:49.985 --> 00:46:53.905
Obviously we talked about active, um, then the important

1127
00:46:53.925 --> 00:46:55.545
of being active and making a difference.

1128
00:46:56.165 --> 00:46:58.105
The, um, the thing on the little picture of the monkey

1129
00:46:58.125 --> 00:46:59.705
and the, uh, the circus tent.

1130
00:46:59.885 --> 00:47:02.425
Um, I was talking to my old at the gun, you know, Carly

1131
00:47:02.425 --> 00:47:05.225
that said, dad, why, why do you want another motorbike?

1132
00:47:05.805 --> 00:47:08.825
Um, and she said, you know, I had to give up work actually,

1133
00:47:08.825 --> 00:47:10.465
because she started earning more than me.

1134
00:47:10.685 --> 00:47:12.265
You can't have your daughter earning more than you.

1135
00:47:12.265 --> 00:47:13.505
So I went, that's when I went private.

1136
00:47:13.885 --> 00:47:17.225
Um, but she said, dad, you know, at work, it's normally

1137
00:47:17.225 --> 00:47:18.865
what you all you hear is, it's not my monkey.

1138
00:47:19.055 --> 00:47:22.545
It's not my circus. Wow. It's a brilliant saying.

1139
00:47:22.615 --> 00:47:24.545
It's an old Polish polish saying,

1140
00:47:24.545 --> 00:47:26.305
but apparently it's all, all the kids are into it

1141
00:47:26.305 --> 00:47:27.345
now on, on Insta.

1142
00:47:27.765 --> 00:47:29.025
Um, it's not my circus.

1143
00:47:29.115 --> 00:47:30.605
It's not my monkey or it's not my monkey.

1144
00:47:30.605 --> 00:47:33.125
It's not, in other words, it's not my responsibility.

1145
00:47:33.385 --> 00:47:36.765
And I remember doing a session for in the Welsh government

1146
00:47:37.345 --> 00:47:40.005
and one of the SROs, senior responsible owners, I said,

1147
00:47:40.005 --> 00:47:42.725
well, you know, who's accountable for benefits realization?

1148
00:47:42.805 --> 00:47:44.885
I said, guys, it's you, the SROs.

1149
00:47:44.985 --> 00:47:47.125
You are accountable for benefits realization.

1150
00:47:47.305 --> 00:47:49.085
And one of these SROs said, Steve,

1151
00:47:49.805 --> 00:47:52.005
I don't control all the business change.

1152
00:47:52.825 --> 00:47:55.125
My program is rolling out across the Welsh government.

1153
00:47:55.165 --> 00:47:56.525
I don't control all the business change.

1154
00:47:56.985 --> 00:47:58.525
Uh, so you can't hold me to account.

1155
00:47:58.825 --> 00:48:00.965
And I said to him, look, the world is full of people

1156
00:48:00.965 --> 00:48:02.485
who say it's not in my job description.

1157
00:48:02.865 --> 00:48:05.325
If you as the SRO don't say, I don't care

1158
00:48:05.555 --> 00:48:08.085
what I directly control, I'm gonna make it happen.

1159
00:48:08.385 --> 00:48:10.005
If you don't say that, who is?

1160
00:48:10.705 --> 00:48:13.405
And this is what John Thorpe, the information paradox guy,

1161
00:48:13.585 --> 00:48:15.885
he talks about activist accountability.

1162
00:48:16.465 --> 00:48:19.645
The buck doesn't stop here. The buck starts here.

1163
00:48:20.225 --> 00:48:22.725
We need to encourage that, that mind shift

1164
00:48:23.195 --> 00:48:25.645
that people hold themselves to account.

1165
00:48:26.305 --> 00:48:28.085
I'm gonna make it. I know it's not easy,

1166
00:48:28.225 --> 00:48:29.405
but I'm gonna make it happen.

1167
00:48:30.025 --> 00:48:32.765
You know, when all is said and done, more is said than done.

1168
00:48:34.135 --> 00:48:35.835
Uh, Steve, so you moved on

1169
00:48:36.255 --> 00:48:37.675
really beautifully into that one.

1170
00:48:37.965 --> 00:48:39.675
Going back to just the criteria, you don't need

1171
00:48:39.675 --> 00:48:40.835
to go back from the slides, but going back

1172
00:48:40.835 --> 00:48:42.235
to the criteria thing for a second.

1173
00:48:42.895 --> 00:48:47.275
Um, so, uh, we, we actually have a couple of eBooks,

1174
00:48:47.365 --> 00:48:49.955
short eBooks on the topics of criteria.

1175
00:48:50.065 --> 00:48:52.235
What are criteria, how to create good criteria.

1176
00:48:52.935 --> 00:48:55.595
Um, and there's a list of 80 criteria

1177
00:48:55.595 --> 00:48:56.795
that to start your thinking.

1178
00:48:57.375 --> 00:49:00.875
Um, and, uh, you know, I think I'd, I'd probably concur

1179
00:49:00.875 --> 00:49:03.715
with your 6.2 being a good number.

1180
00:49:04.115 --> 00:49:05.195
I normally say sort of five

1181
00:49:05.195 --> 00:49:06.515
to six. So that's, that's about right.

1182
00:49:06.665 --> 00:49:08.195
It's Bob Cooper. There you go. Yeah, yeah,

1183
00:49:08.195 --> 00:49:09.195
Yeah. Close enough.

1184
00:49:09.195 --> 00:49:09.955
Um, and,

1185
00:49:10.055 --> 00:49:12.035
and then part of the key is to break those down.

1186
00:49:12.095 --> 00:49:14.595
So anyway, there's anybody who's interested in getting a

1187
00:49:14.595 --> 00:49:16.955
copy of that book, just drop me your email address into the

1188
00:49:16.955 --> 00:49:19.275
chat and Lenora will pick that up

1189
00:49:19.455 --> 00:49:21.275
and make sure you get a copy of that book.

1190
00:49:22.135 --> 00:49:25.195
Um, so, uh, anyone that would like to learn more about that,

1191
00:49:25.345 --> 00:49:28.555
just as I say, just give us a quick yes please

1192
00:49:28.775 --> 00:49:30.115
and Lenora will get it to you.

1193
00:49:31.465 --> 00:49:34.105
Paul, we've got two more and we've got about six minutes.

1194
00:49:34.205 --> 00:49:37.585
My god. So disciplined. Bob Cooper mentioned Bob Cooper.

1195
00:49:37.805 --> 00:49:40.145
Bob Cooper says The difference between the winners

1196
00:49:40.145 --> 00:49:43.225
and the losers in portfolio management isn't

1197
00:49:43.225 --> 00:49:45.025
that the winners do portfolio management

1198
00:49:45.245 --> 00:49:46.345
and the losers don't.

1199
00:49:46.685 --> 00:49:50.105
He said the difference is the losers aren't consistent.

1200
00:49:50.105 --> 00:49:51.865
They're ill disciplined. They allow people

1201
00:49:51.965 --> 00:49:53.265
to bypass the process.

1202
00:49:54.045 --> 00:49:56.465
Um, the winners stick to the process.

1203
00:49:56.495 --> 00:49:57.865
They look to improve the process.

1204
00:49:58.175 --> 00:50:00.025
They look for continuous improvement,

1205
00:50:00.365 --> 00:50:03.745
but whatever the process is, they're disciplined about it.

1206
00:50:04.125 --> 00:50:06.985
Um, and key to that is this whole concept

1207
00:50:07.125 --> 00:50:08.465
of stage release of funding.

1208
00:50:08.915 --> 00:50:11.665
Annie Duke's book, I've mentioned thinking in bets.

1209
00:50:11.965 --> 00:50:14.665
So we need to be more like the, the PMO guy needs

1210
00:50:14.665 --> 00:50:18.505
to be more like a professional poker player, um,

1211
00:50:18.805 --> 00:50:22.305
making small bets as your confidence in victory grows,

1212
00:50:22.365 --> 00:50:23.945
so you commit more fun.

1213
00:50:24.005 --> 00:50:25.985
So you overcome what Tim Banfield

1214
00:50:26.205 --> 00:50:28.485
of the National Audit Office called the

1215
00:50:28.485 --> 00:50:30.085
conspiracy of continuation.

1216
00:50:30.465 --> 00:50:32.605
He said, well, everyone knows, just get the thing started

1217
00:50:32.705 --> 00:50:34.685
and it's almost impossible to stop it.

1218
00:50:35.265 --> 00:50:37.925
No, which we need to have a, a, a a stage gate process.

1219
00:50:38.465 --> 00:50:40.565
So your portfolio is a funnel, not a tunnel.

1220
00:50:41.065 --> 00:50:43.725
Um, I was doing this part about discipline.

1221
00:50:43.765 --> 00:50:45.125
I was doing a, uh, doing some work

1222
00:50:45.285 --> 00:50:47.245
with a major multinational.

1223
00:50:47.545 --> 00:50:50.205
And this multinational we were talking about on defense

1224
00:50:50.295 --> 00:50:51.325
scale budgets.

1225
00:50:51.405 --> 00:50:54.085
I mean, the money was just unbelievable scale.

1226
00:50:54.665 --> 00:50:57.245
And they won lots of awards for portfolio management,

1227
00:50:57.245 --> 00:50:59.325
including up being at one of those conferences

1228
00:50:59.325 --> 00:51:02.045
that you refer to in the, in the Middle East, uh, Stewart

1229
00:51:02.425 --> 00:51:04.005
and I'd been there the previous year

1230
00:51:04.005 --> 00:51:05.445
and I'd seen they'd been up.

1231
00:51:05.475 --> 00:51:07.525
They, they won their award and they showed the video.

1232
00:51:08.265 --> 00:51:09.765
Uh, and then I forgot all about it.

1233
00:51:09.825 --> 00:51:11.445
And then a year later, they contacted me,

1234
00:51:11.445 --> 00:51:13.125
said We'd wanna do some work on benefits, Steve.

1235
00:51:13.505 --> 00:51:15.205
So I went over to, to work with them,

1236
00:51:15.425 --> 00:51:16.605
and we did a little bit of work.

1237
00:51:16.605 --> 00:51:18.045
And then there was this presentation

1238
00:51:18.105 --> 00:51:19.205
by the portfolio manager

1239
00:51:19.425 --> 00:51:21.605
and she explained what they were gonna do in the following

1240
00:51:21.605 --> 00:51:23.045
year, and she finished.

1241
00:51:23.745 --> 00:51:25.965
And people getting up, the guy next to me, he was one

1242
00:51:25.965 --> 00:51:28.535
of their leading analysts, lent over

1243
00:51:28.535 --> 00:51:31.495
and he says, Steve, it's like Game of Thrones around here.

1244
00:51:31.685 --> 00:51:33.855
They're all stabbing each other in the back.

1245
00:51:34.885 --> 00:51:36.265
And that's the point. And you gotta build,

1246
00:51:36.325 --> 00:51:39.145
you can have the wonderful, the most brilliant processes,

1247
00:51:39.605 --> 00:51:42.865
but if the culture of the organization allows people

1248
00:51:42.885 --> 00:51:46.265
to bypass and they're maneuvering, it becomes a game.

1249
00:51:46.925 --> 00:51:48.705
Now, I'm not dissing that, that organization,

1250
00:51:48.845 --> 00:51:51.585
I'm not naming them, but it just illustrates

1251
00:51:51.645 --> 00:51:53.665
how difficult this stuff can be.

1252
00:51:53.845 --> 00:51:55.985
So we need to be like a poker player.

1253
00:51:56.305 --> 00:51:57.385
I haven't mentioned Aristotle.

1254
00:51:57.465 --> 00:51:59.105
I must have met Aristotle in a second.

1255
00:51:59.285 --> 00:52:01.745
We mentioned Ella Fitzgerald, uh,

1256
00:52:01.925 --> 00:52:03.545
we mentioned, uh, Shakespeare.

1257
00:52:04.125 --> 00:52:07.865
Um, but key for me, if you know, if you're gonna reach,

1258
00:52:08.165 --> 00:52:11.025
if you wanna change things, normally we reach

1259
00:52:11.045 --> 00:52:12.465
for the accountability stick.

1260
00:52:12.525 --> 00:52:13.425
If you wanna change something,

1261
00:52:13.425 --> 00:52:14.665
gimme an accountability stick.

1262
00:52:14.765 --> 00:52:16.745
Stuart, I want you to hit a hundred next year.

1263
00:52:16.885 --> 00:52:18.705
If you don't hit a hundred, you're sacked.

1264
00:52:18.765 --> 00:52:21.185
Now, Stuart is now motivated, he's now accountable,

1265
00:52:21.245 --> 00:52:24.105
and he's now mo no, he's not motivated, he's motivated

1266
00:52:24.105 --> 00:52:26.105
to make it look like he got to a hundred.

1267
00:52:26.815 --> 00:52:29.545
What drives behavior is transparency.

1268
00:52:30.255 --> 00:52:32.985
Look what happened when the Daily Telegraph published MP's

1269
00:52:32.985 --> 00:52:36.125
expense claims world changed.

1270
00:52:36.715 --> 00:52:39.045
Half those mps never stood for election again.

1271
00:52:39.195 --> 00:52:40.725
Nothing they did was illegal.

1272
00:52:41.315 --> 00:52:42.725
Half of them, some of them was illegal.

1273
00:52:43.815 --> 00:52:45.835
But what the people said, I don't care whether it's legal,

1274
00:52:46.025 --> 00:52:47.115
just shame on you.

1275
00:52:47.345 --> 00:52:52.195
Just shame on you. And transparency, what's it costing?

1276
00:52:52.455 --> 00:52:54.355
When's it gonna deliver? Been absolutely clear.

1277
00:52:54.415 --> 00:52:57.075
And it's just an example on the right hand side from Dubai

1278
00:52:57.105 --> 00:52:59.115
Customs, that was their portfolio map.

1279
00:52:59.175 --> 00:53:00.955
You hit one of those, any of those bubbles,

1280
00:53:01.015 --> 00:53:03.595
you've got a dashboard report, you hit that button,

1281
00:53:03.855 --> 00:53:08.675
you got a ROI analysis, open transparency.

1282
00:53:09.125 --> 00:53:12.475
Where did it get them? World PMO of the year in 2020.

1283
00:53:14.205 --> 00:53:15.945
So, but I didn't mention Aristotle.

1284
00:53:17.935 --> 00:53:21.625
Aristotle said, we are what we repeatedly do.

1285
00:53:22.605 --> 00:53:25.185
If you wanna get senior managers engaged in portfolio

1286
00:53:25.205 --> 00:53:26.965
management, Ash's point about, you know,

1287
00:53:26.965 --> 00:53:28.125
no one's ever gonna give it to you,

1288
00:53:28.705 --> 00:53:30.005
get them to play the game.

1289
00:53:30.005 --> 00:53:31.845
This is when, what Stuart's talking about,

1290
00:53:31.865 --> 00:53:34.325
and I hadn't didn't talk about, I didn't talk

1291
00:53:34.325 --> 00:53:36.885
to him about this beforehand, but it's actually get senior

1292
00:53:36.885 --> 00:53:39.285
managers involved in doing the portfolio management

1293
00:53:39.285 --> 00:53:40.405
stuff. That's

1294
00:53:40.405 --> 00:53:40.965
It. With your

1295
00:53:40.965 --> 00:53:42.725
Portfolio prioritization exercises,

1296
00:53:42.725 --> 00:53:46.125
your decision conferencing or stage gate reviews.

1297
00:53:46.715 --> 00:53:50.365
When people start doing it, then they see the value.

1298
00:53:50.875 --> 00:53:53.445
Well, it don't always be a straight line, you know,

1299
00:53:53.445 --> 00:53:54.445
things will get better and they

1300
00:53:54.445 --> 00:53:55.405
get worse, they get better again.

1301
00:53:55.465 --> 00:53:58.485
But nevertheless, we are what we were repeatedly doing. Um,

1302
00:54:01.575 --> 00:54:02.575
Fantastic.

1303
00:54:02.765 --> 00:54:05.785
So, so we had, we had a couple other questions, um,

1304
00:54:06.025 --> 00:54:07.225
sketched out that we cover.

1305
00:54:07.325 --> 00:54:09.785
But, but as, as is often the way with these things,

1306
00:54:09.785 --> 00:54:10.865
we're at the top of the hour,

1307
00:54:11.485 --> 00:54:14.865
and so we're, we're gonna have to kind of, uh, roll that up.

1308
00:54:14.965 --> 00:54:17.425
Um, so thank you people, uh, to,

1309
00:54:17.525 --> 00:54:19.465
to the folks who've attended, uh,

1310
00:54:19.725 --> 00:54:21.585
for the comments and engagement.

1311
00:54:21.585 --> 00:54:22.985
I've enjoyed that in the background.

1312
00:54:23.645 --> 00:54:27.425
Um, uh, Lenora will, um,

1313
00:54:28.085 --> 00:54:30.985
bundle in the, you know, uh, we'll, we'll make sure

1314
00:54:30.985 --> 00:54:34.745
that folks who've requested it will get that, uh, ebook, uh,

1315
00:54:34.845 --> 00:54:35.865
may, maybe we can bundle it

1316
00:54:35.865 --> 00:54:37.465
with a video when that goes out or something.

1317
00:54:37.685 --> 00:54:41.145
Lenora, that would be fine. Um, Steve, we have

1318
00:54:41.145 --> 00:54:42.185
so much more to talk about.

1319
00:54:42.885 --> 00:54:44.745
So we're, we're gonna to have, we're gonna have

1320
00:54:44.745 --> 00:54:47.985
to get you back again at some point. And, um,

1321
00:54:48.645 --> 00:54:49.625
In My pleasure. My

1322
00:54:49.825 --> 00:54:50.825
Pleasure, guys. No, no,

1323
00:54:50.825 --> 00:54:52.025
it's, it's, it's fantastic.

1324
00:54:52.025 --> 00:54:53.145
It's very generous of you to,

1325
00:54:53.165 --> 00:54:54.665
to share your wisdom with us today.

1326
00:54:55.125 --> 00:54:58.145
Um, one, one last quick plug for your book, uh,

1327
00:54:58.205 --> 00:54:59.345
the, the forthcoming book.

1328
00:54:59.345 --> 00:55:00.745
Give us, give us the details again.

1329
00:55:01.645 --> 00:55:02.665
Oh, so rather awesome.

1330
00:55:03.015 --> 00:55:05.025
It's not a bit like Management of Portfolios

1331
00:55:05.025 --> 00:55:07.185
that was published in two, it's like that on steroids.

1332
00:55:07.765 --> 00:55:09.345
Uh, I let say it's, it's

1333
00:55:09.345 --> 00:55:11.545
what it would be if we started writing it.

1334
00:55:12.305 --> 00:55:14.025
Managing portfolios, uh, due

1335
00:55:14.025 --> 00:55:15.705
for publication the end of October.

1336
00:55:16.325 --> 00:55:17.385
Um, it's a kind of,

1337
00:55:17.405 --> 00:55:19.025
all the stuff I've been talking about today,

1338
00:55:19.685 --> 00:55:20.785
in essence, is there.

1339
00:55:20.785 --> 00:55:23.385
It it's a kind of encyclopedia, if you like, of,

1340
00:55:23.525 --> 00:55:25.945
or it's references obviously to awesome people.

1341
00:55:25.945 --> 00:55:29.265
People like Stewart, of course. Um, and others in the field.

1342
00:55:29.485 --> 00:55:30.785
Uh, Mike, uh,

1343
00:55:30.805 --> 00:55:33.705
and Laura, they've all got, uh, bits in the book.

1344
00:55:33.965 --> 00:55:37.185
Um, lots of, uh, you know what,

1345
00:55:37.245 --> 00:55:39.385
all the stuff I think is really important, uh,

1346
00:55:39.615 --> 00:55:41.065
description of how you do it.

1347
00:55:41.065 --> 00:55:42.345
Lots of examples around the world.

1348
00:55:42.345 --> 00:55:44.705
Anyway, we'll talk about that some other time.

1349
00:55:46.125 --> 00:55:47.525
Absolutely. We, we will make time.

1350
00:55:47.945 --> 00:55:49.685
But, but now when's the book coming out?

1351
00:55:50.265 --> 00:55:52.245
End of that one is End Up Managing Benefits.

1352
00:55:52.465 --> 00:55:54.925
The third edition of Managing Benefits is due out,

1353
00:55:55.595 --> 00:55:58.685
this is hot off the press 10th of October.

1354
00:55:59.385 --> 00:56:00.885
And as I said in, I reply to them

1355
00:56:01.145 --> 00:56:03.205
and hopefully managing portfolios will be soon

1356
00:56:03.205 --> 00:56:06.725
after, uh, the, the, the target date was the end of October.

1357
00:56:07.115 --> 00:56:09.285
Hopefully was, will still, will still make that,

1358
00:56:09.305 --> 00:56:12.975
but managing benefits is the 10th of October.

1359
00:56:13.655 --> 00:56:16.295
Managing portfolios the kind of the end of October.

1360
00:56:17.685 --> 00:56:19.725
Excellent. Excellent. Well, I, I'll tell you what,

1361
00:56:19.935 --> 00:56:21.925
maybe maybe we should get you back in, in December.

1362
00:56:21.935 --> 00:56:23.965
We're having a session on what's the point

1363
00:56:23.965 --> 00:56:25.745
of the pmo, what's the point?

1364
00:56:25.765 --> 00:56:28.025
Um, that, that, that's the point of a PMO.

1365
00:56:28.085 --> 00:56:30.585
We, we've got a nice little graphic to go with it based on,

1366
00:56:30.955 --> 00:56:33.265
based on Monty Python, what the Romans ever done for us.

1367
00:56:34.205 --> 00:56:36.345
Um, so what's the PMO ever done for us?

1368
00:56:36.605 --> 00:56:37.985
Uh, so we'll be asking that question.

1369
00:56:38.365 --> 00:56:39.945
And so maybe we should have you back then,

1370
00:56:40.405 --> 00:56:42.465
and you can tell us whether or not the book's been released

1371
00:56:42.525 --> 00:56:44.785
and, and, uh, wave a copy around for all.

1372
00:56:46.405 --> 00:56:49.745
But, uh, but Steve has ever an absolute pleasure having you.

1373
00:56:50.285 --> 00:56:53.105
Um, it's, it's been super to to see you.

1374
00:56:53.405 --> 00:56:56.745
Um, thanks for walking us through the, through this.

1375
00:56:57.125 --> 00:56:58.905
Uh, I can't emphasize enough to people.

1376
00:57:00.235 --> 00:57:03.765
Um, you know, it is just a half dozen slides,

1377
00:57:04.905 --> 00:57:09.085
but this is based on decades of work

1378
00:57:09.345 --> 00:57:11.885
and research in into this area.

1379
00:57:12.145 --> 00:57:14.125
So thank you Steve, for making it

1380
00:57:14.125 --> 00:57:15.205
so accessible for everybody.

1381
00:57:15.655 --> 00:57:19.715
Thank you guys. Appreciate it. Really appreciate it, Bruno.

1382
00:57:19.825 --> 00:57:21.075
Hope to see you soon, my friend.

1383
00:57:21.535 --> 00:57:23.395
Um, and uh, everybody else

1384
00:57:23.395 --> 00:57:25.755
that has been absolutely super having you, uh,

1385
00:57:25.895 --> 00:57:27.595
do reach out with questions.

1386
00:57:28.055 --> 00:57:31.795
Uh, I'm sure Steve will be open to connecting on LinkedIn.

1387
00:57:31.795 --> 00:57:34.475
Connect with me. Sure. Uh, talk to you all soon.

1388
00:57:35.265 --> 00:57:37.085
Thanks everybody. Cheers.