So, uh, so Heba, if you, if you don't know Heather,
she's the, the EPMO lead for, uh, you can tell us
what your proper title is, Heba,
but for the Dubai municipality.
And if you don't know, um,
Heba has personally won the PMO Leader
of the Year from the PMO ga, uh, a couple of times.
The only person on the planet to have done that, by the way.
Uh, the PMO that Heather leads has one PMO
of the year, a couple of times.
So, you know, we're honored
and it's always a delight to have Heather online.
And the reason that we're here tonight, or today,
or this morning, depending where you are in the world, is,
uh, is because Heather has a new book out.
And in that book, she has distilled, uh,
her thinking about leadership.
And, um, I was lucky enough to get
copy when it was in draft,
and then a, a, an early proof copy.
And, uh, and I really, there are a lot
of books on leadership out there,
and this one, for me was a little different.
You'll find out why over the next 45 minutes or so.
And so now the book is actually finally released
and a best seller.
Woo. Um, yeah, I thought it would be great
to have Heba join us
and share some of your thoughts on leadership.
So I'm going to, I'm gonna zip it now. Well, you know me.
How long's that gonna last? Not long.
A minute, maybe. Yeah, me if you're lucky.
Uh, so I'm gonna zip it and let you, uh, introduce yourself
and, and tell us a little bit, Heather, about, uh, about,
you know, leadership and,
and, um, I, I, I'm so excited about this.
I, I, I can't stop talking
because it's, you know,
Heather's a Heather's also an artist,
and you're gonna see a lot of that instinct coming out.
Yeah, there you go. Right behind.
Um, so, uh, so some of that's gonna come out, I'm sure,
over the next little, little, uh, little while.
So, Heather, over to you.
First of all, thank you so much, Stuart, for having me.
I'm so excited about this, uh, this session.
I think I've been looking forward to it for like,
more than three months, maybe.
Yeah. Since the book was out, we were planning it, uh,
I'm very happy that my first book is finally out
Elements of Leadership.
I am, uh, I can say that I am a PMO expert.
I've been in Dubai municipality for 20 years.
However, uh,
I think the experience from the PMO community has fed
a lot into my own character, into my own way of leading.
And, uh, also from all the, all of the people
that I was mentoring over the past years, uh, the people,
I'm, I'm working with different, uh, organizations.
All of this kind of experience I try to put together in,
in one book, but it's not about, um,
let's say the intellectual
and, uh, the very rigid side of the PMOs.
It's about the human element, the human aspect of, of, uh,
leadership in general.
So it's, it's a book for everyone who is just getting there
as a leader, just starting, or even experienced leaders.
And it doesn't have to be about PMOs,
but it can be applied for, for everyone.
So, uh, that's briefly about the book and about me.
Yes, I am an artist.
So this is one of my, my, uh, pieces
that I participated in a, uh, in an art fair in, uh,
and the UAE I'm also a mother, uh, a wife.
And, uh, I'm a volunteer with PMI as the PMO Ga
Mina Hub Lead with America, of course.
Yeah. So that's briefly about me.
Excellent. Excellent.
So, um, just very quickly to answer Erica's question. Yes.
Uh, we'll, Heather's gonna put up a QR code later on,
so you'll be able to just go straight through to the book.
Yeah. Excellent.
So, um, so Hebert, you, you put a few slides together.
Why don't we, why don't we kick up with those and,
and I'm sure let's do that.
I'm sure it'll devolve into just
a conversation at some point.
Sure. Well, let's, let's pretend we've got,
Yeah. Yes we can.
That's brilliant.
Okay, so I want to talk about the book in general.
What's it about and why did I select the elements
of nature to present my ideas in, in the book?
Uh, so it's called Elements of LE Leadership.
And, uh, I think what you already talked about, Mr.
We, we can skip that.
Uh, it's a guide, it's not a book.
It's a guide that explores how the, the essence
of nature, the elements, air, water, uh, earth,
and fire, are embedded within all of us.
It's within us, it's around us.
And probably that's the part where, um, my artistic side
and my Pisces side get together.
This is how I see things.
I thi I see things in, uh, kind of metaphors, uh, trying
to resemble the emotional side,
learning from the emotional side instead
of learning from the rigid side.
So I wanted to put that in the book, kind
of linking the nature
and the emotional side with, with all
of the human-centric leadership aspects that I wanted it
to be linked, uh, with.
So the key is actually, um, you, you can be like,
the other day I was, I was having a dinner with America,
and I asked, I told him, I signed his book
as You Are the Water, you Remind me of the water.
And he, he did talk about that during dinner.
He said, sometimes I think of myself as water.
I'm adapting, I'm, uh, moving all over the place
and trying to, to fit whatever goals
and aims I want within whatever situations that I am in.
So I told him, this is what, how I see you.
This is your main element
to me, the water element.
But at the same time, America
and everyone, every other leader as well, can also
be any other, uh, leadership element at any point of time.
So it depends on the situation, it depends on, uh,
the challenge that you are, uh, facing.
You can kind of adapt balance,
call them in when, whenever you need them.
So, uh, this is the main, the main idea of it.
So if you're talking about air, be cool as the breeze be,
be the the leader that will, that everyone will
enjoy walking into the room, the energy
that they will give us is like a positive energy.
Uh, they have an open door policy.
They can easily communicate with people, be fluid and fluid.
So for you to be, to be adaptable and float
and, uh, carry, carry your, your team with you,
you also need to establish trust.
So trust is part of the water, for example, uh,
be adaptable, like the earth.
Earth changes very quickly,
but can also try change very slowly.
And that change, uh, the change management
of whatever you do is really important in order for you
to get something so beautiful,
like a beautiful beach, for example.
And be quick as fire.
Uh, fire is all about learning, learning something new,
being passionate to, to find your own passion, you have
to find the thing that you love
and to learn along the way, be a lifelong learner.
So this is a, just a brief,
and here are some, some key elements that are linked
to each, uh, each one of them.
Uh, like, uh, air inspiration, influence, adaptability,
vision, and direction.
So each one of them, I dig deeper into those in the book
and provide you with more of a guidelines
or on how to, uh, how to, uh,
balance all of these together
and how to find them within yourself.
Water is about fluidity, adaptability, trust, resilience,
authenticity, earth stability.
So it's like similar to what Gartner is always, uh, uh,
covering in their articles.
Mode one and mode two, you need, you need the stability
and the earth to be able to, to change and,
and adapt with more tool, which is like the innovation
that can be also the fire, innovation,
empowerment, passion, and resilience.
So leadership is about knowing which element to,
within Tenness, from my point of view,
there are four main leadership pillars to foster human,
to human connections.
First, lead people with love, not fear.
Because if they fear you, they will not last with you.
They will not be loyal to you,
and they will not be loyal to the organized will.
They will just give you what you want, just
because they have to, not
because they, they want to, they don't,
they won't do it with love.
And if they do it with love,
then you will guarantee quality,
you will guarantee productivity,
and you will guarantee that those people will stay with you.
Lead with respect, because also respect is,
is the foundation of any relationship.
Any strong relationship needs to, and where people shout
and scream at, at employees thinking that
they are the bosses and they are entitled to do that.
And they can do that. And it's very
respect, and it leaves, it give you what you want.
So respect is really important, not just in work in general.
It's, it's very important lead with trust.
And, uh, in GPMF, actually, my speech was about trust.
Like how important it is to,
to build the relationships within your teams
and, uh, uh, think about,
they will not just trust you, you will trust them.
So it's like a two way, two way street
and lead with kindness.
So kindness, uh, it's something really,
really, I,
Okay, so, um, important To me, it's like the last he,
Heather, Heather, sorry to interrupt.
I, I think your line keeps cutting out a little bit.
Um, I don't dunno.
If you want to perhaps, uh, disconnect
and reconnect, I'll tap dance while you're
doing that or something.
Um, you, you, the screen keeps freezing. Okay.
Um, and I, I just checked with people
and, uh, other, I thought it was my bandwidth
that was the problem, but I think it might be yours.
Um, so,
Okay.
Fabulous. Okay, lemme, lemme See if I
Can, so while, while Heba has a quick look at that, um,
what I'd love to do is, you know, Heba, heba,
iss talking about all these, these different aspects.
And, and, and the idea is that you,
you embody different elements at different times in
different situations, right?
It is kind of part of the, the idea here.
Um, so, so what I, I'd love to do just really quickly, um,
just jump onto the keyboard
and just if there's one of those elements that represents
you most of the time, which would it be?
Right? So, so which of those sounded most like you in your,
in your default mode, right?
When, when, when you're just sort of behaving normally?
And then I've got another question to follow up with.
Okay. We're getting lots of respect and kindness.
What about the elements? Are you, are you wind?
Are you fire?
Can you hear me now? Water.
There you go. That sounds good. That sounds good.
Okay. Change my wifi. I think we're good.
We've got quite a lot of earth
and water on this, on the, on the session here.
Yeah. Little bit of wind.
I think I might be a bit bit windy, Erica.
Actually, I, I might have to confess to that.
What, did I sign your book?
I think I signed you a book, uh, as Earth. Maybe.
I think I, I think you might,
I can't quite remember. Actually. I'd need to go.
Me either. Read it again.
Um, yeah, that, thank you Ashok, uh,
that's bringing it right down to, uh, down to basics there.
Um, so, so, uh, so Heather, um,
why don't you, why don't you pick up where you were there,
you were talking about kindness and then,
and then, um, yeah,
and we'll see, we'll see how the connection goes.
Okay. So, uh, I was, I was saying that the chapter
of kindness was the, the last chapter I added in the book.
And, uh, I, I chose the, to delay the launch of the book
because I, I really needed to add it, to add it in the book.
And, um, and why it's very important to me is that,
uh, I've been told before that kindness,
my kindness will hold me back.
Like, I won't be an effective and,
and, uh, good leader if I was kind with people.
But over the years, I, I learned to balance kindness
with authority and respect and trust,
and add that all in the mix, and it worked.
So, so probably this is the thing that's,
that's really important for, um, for leaders to,
to keep that in mind.
Because as leaders, we need to show authority, yes, to help
provide structure.
We need structure, we need to set goals, we need
to drive performance, uh,
and we need to ensure that the team is focused on achieving
the organization's objectives.
But this means that we need
to make difficult decisions.
We need to deliver sometimes tough feedback.
And I talk about feedback
and how, how the, it's,
the feedback can be delivered within,
within the book itself.
But at the same time, we need to balance kindness
with authority to make sure that the team understand
that we are working together, they are our partners,
we are working together towards a, a common goal.
And, and, uh, the responsibilities are, uh,
really crucial when it comes to any organization.
So there have to be clear or, uh, responsibilities,
and they need to understand as well, what's the importance
of their own contributions to the organization.
So, so it comes, uh, comes down to
how you balance authority and kindness.
And I have more chapters, uh, in the book about, uh,
the specifics of this.
So that's the main, let's say idea.
I just try to cover a small part of the book.
Uh, but, uh, there are more from that in, in the book.
And you can scan this QR code and get your copy.
Fantastic. And lead, lead with your inner nature.
Yes. Lead with your inner nature.
So, so we've got, we've got a lot of, uh, earth
and mortar, I think, on the, on the, on the call.
Um, so, so my first question, and,
and by the way, I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask a few questions.
What I'm really hoping is
that you guys will all ask questions
because, you know, I'm, I, I don't have
that much imagination and I'll run out
of ideas after two or three.
So, so why don't you all jump in? No, it's just not true.
Is it Heba? But, but, um, uh,
but if you guys ask questions,
then it's gonna be far more interesting for you and, uh,
and probably more interesting for Heba as well to
to address things that you are interested in.
So, um, uh, so do jump in with, with questions or comments,
and we'll get, get Heather's reaction.
So, so talk to us a little bit Heber about, you know,
how you see, you know, if, if I'm predominantly naturally
water or earth, right?
But sometimes I have to manifest fire, right? Yeah.
How do you, how do you do that? How do you learn to do that?
Because it, it's difficult to kind
of manifest different sides of yourself, right?
Yeah. But I, I think at some point you'll,
you might even manifest all four at the same time.
It depends on, on the situation.
Maybe you can be in, in a certain meeting dealing
with someone, uh, as water,
like your direct supervisor,
and then talking to your employees as fire,
because you need to encourage them.
And, uh, talking to your stakeholders as water,
because you need to increase trust.
So it can be like a, it won't be of course a a flip
of a switch, but it's something that you learn.
And I think intuitively this is why it's, it's important
for us to link nature because it's intuitive,
and you as the leader intuitively, you will be able to do
that very quickly,
and you'll notice yourself doing that, um,
from one challenge to the other,
or one situation to the other.
So it's, it's not gonna be that hard.
Okay. So, um, one of the things that you, that stuck
with me when I read the book was, was about, um, you know,
as a leader, taking care
of yourself is important.
Yeah. Do you wanna talk about that for a while?
Because again, most, most books on leadership focus on,
you know, do this and do that, and, you know, be strong
and be, you know, all all these sorts of things.
Yeah. Um, but you start with,
you know, take care of yourself.
So talk, talk a little bit about that, if you would.
Yeah. Uh, when you are a leader,
or you, let's say when you are a boss, most of the time
you have, you might have less friends,
you let less connections at work.
So whatever you do at work, it's like you, you feel lonely,
you feel lonely as, as a leader.
And it's important for you to not to, to, to kind of
don't forget that there's a life behind, beyond work,
and you need to focus on your own life,
and you focus on your own, um, uh, family,
friends, all of that.
So I do talk about taking care of yourself,
but also part of it is having your own support system,
like your own friends that can, that can, uh, be
with you along the way.
Um, avoid judging you for anything that you do.
Just give you the advice that you need whenever you need it.
Uh, so probably, uh, it's different, different,
it's not just the mental, uh, mental side of it
or you taking care of yourself physically or mentally.
It's about, um,
feeling like you're not alone in this.
And it's important for you to, to get those around you
that will help you feel like you are supported, you are
being carried along your journey.
And, and, and when you do that, you actually have more
Resilience. Yeah. More energy, more energy
to, to give back energy
To support people. Yeah,
yeah, exactly. Yeah,
To give back. Exactly.
So it's, so, it's, it's, it's actually, you know,
this isn't heba saying, be nice
to yourself, to be nice to yourself.
It's, as a leader, you need to be nice to yourself so
that you then have the energy and the space
and the emotional flexibility to be able
to support the team better.
Yeah. Um, so, um, and,
And if you're, if you're a true leader,
you'll feel responsible.
And the big responsibility is it's,
uh, it's, it's a lot.
It's a lot to take in.
So, so having that responsibility might mean that you, you,
you can overwork, you can forget about work-life balance.
You can, uh, forget about taking care of yourself,
and you will, at the end of the day, you feel,
you'll feel like you are, um, uh, really being,
being burned like a candle burning, you know?
And yes, you might progress in the organization,
and the organization will be okay,
and you'll achieve your goals and everything,
but at the end of the day,
you're not thinking about yourself, your health
and all of these things actually manifests
as health issues without you noticing them, all
of the stress and all of the, um, pressure
that you put to yourself in.
So this is why it's very important for you
to take care of yourself.
Um, Rebecca has a quick request.
Heather, could you go back to the slide
where you're showing the different elements?
Um, I suspect she's either wanting to take notes
or has a question there.
Um, and then while you're doing that, um, uh, Ashock, um,
uh, is basically says, um, you know, when you've got a lot
of things going on as a leader, you've got the,
there's urgency in things that need solving quickly.
How do you, how do you avoid just going into,
just do this mode, right?
So how do you, how do you take that step back and,
and make time to be kind when you're under pressure?
Uh, see, first of all, uh,
it won't be only about kindness.
It'll be about clarity
and clear role roles and responsibilities.
So if you're, you're asking them to do something, you have
to give them the time to give you feedback about,
about this task,
because they might have more, let's say, better way
to do it, faster way to do it.
So it's, it's important for you to open a channel
of a two-way communication once you give them an, uh,
an assignment to do, let's say.
So this is number one.
And the second thing is to be clear about the assignment
and when do you need it?
And, uh, why do you need it so urgent?
Uh, because sometimes, uh, the urgency is not there.
You think that the, a report has to come
because it's like the end of the quarter
and then you pressure people to do it.
But at the end of the day, it's, it's the pressure
that's set by, by the boss,
because they just want that on that day.
So we have to be very, very clear about that.
If it's not that urgent, the leader should request it like,
way ahead of time for the, give them time to, to prepare
for it and be ready for it.
Uh, so think about the urgency. Is it really urgent?
So, related question.
So when, when your boss is giving you lots of urgency
and yeah, applying pressure, how do you,
how do you deal with that?
Do you pass that pressure on to your team?
Do you, what, how do you personally cope with that?
Because that's, that's something we've all had.
Yeah, I, I open up to my team, so if,
if I have a pressure from, from my managers,
I open up and tell them why I'm being pressured to do that.
And, but I don't pressure them.
I try to, to kind of, so kind
of, uh, what do you call it?
Uh, divide, divide that pressure with the team
that I am trusting in my PMO
and ask them, okay, guys, we can do this.
You can do that. We can do, you can do that.
And what do you think about dividing the, the task?
And, uh, do you think you will be able to, to do it on time?
If not, then are we going to present
with a better quality if we take longer time?
And then we, we keep coming and going.
And I am lucky that I have managers
and bosses that can also listen to me.
So if they give me a pressure to do something on a certain,
uh, date or a task, I can consult my team
and come back and say, okay, I can give a draft on
that date, but I can make it better on another date.
And most of the time I do that.
And, and I think there's something in there about
leadership work that, that the ability to do
that isn't always given, sometimes it's earned.
Right. And and you earn it by Yes.
By being honest and clear and transparent Yeah.
To the best of your ability, right?
Exactly. So, you know, there are gonna be times,
it might be uncomfortable, but there are gonna be times
as a leader where you need to turn to your boss
or to one of your peers
and say, I really can't deliver that.
Or, um, uh, or, or, or something.
And that, that, those are sometimes the, the hardest times
as a leader, because you've, you know, if you, if you go
and say, yeah, okay, we'll find a way
to get it done, that's not leadership.
And, and it'll, it's,
and it's gonna undermine your position as a leader
because you'll, you'll build a reputation as someone
that over promises, under delivers.
That's not leadership. I, I dunno
what it is, but it's not leadership.
Um, exactly. So I, honest plus,
Plus, I think over the years, you can actually
build that trust.
So if, if you give a date that you will deliver on a date,
and then you keep your promise every time,
and you give good quality over the years, your,
your bosses will listen to you.
They will listen to you when you say, no, I can't do
that, uh, on that time.
Uh, and if I do that, then the quality will be affected.
So, so it's actually building trust.
Plus, if you absolutely have to
give into the pressure
and give something, uh, that's very tight deadline,
very huge in impact, then, uh,
you will have to depend on your team.
And if you depend on your team, you have to
have a great relationship with them.
Uh, trust from both ways, uh,
and, um, listening from them,
listening from them about all of the pressures
that they might be facing,
solving their issues, avoiding their blame.
So you'll have to have that really true leadership
relationship between you and your, your employees
or your partners, as I call them, for them to, to give you
what you want on a tight deadline.
Excellent. Um, and,
and related to that, I, I, I think I,
I'm gonna take Ash's question about, you know,
having a supportive team as the way
to go takes time to develop.
How do you develop that support?
And I'm gonna expend ex expand that question
and also add in, and how do you build that trust?
You know, you just talked about having two-way trust, so
how do you build that, that trust with, with
Your team? Yeah.
So, uh, first how to build the team.
I think, um, I can give you a, a, a story.
When I first started in the PMOI, I hired a few,
a few people, like a fresh graduate who joined my, my team.
And from day one, I noticed that, uh, he was willing
to learn, but he wasn't happy.
It's like, uh, he was bored with the desk jobs
and he was just moving all, all over the place trying
to find information, but he just couldn't sit
behind a desk working on a project management system.
And I, and I sat with him
and I asked him, uh, he was an engineer.
I asked him, what do you like to do?
Like, what's your passion?
Are you a person who, who likes to work with their hands?
He said, yes, I, I do.
I used to have like inventions at, at home.
I used to do stuff by myself,
and I'm not a person who can, who can actually sit
behind a desk and just, uh, settle with it.
So the PMO job is like, you are reporting about project,
you are not really in the project.
So, uh, I had to let go of that
team member, although he was a very bright young man.
Uh, he, he had huge potential, but
because it wasn't his passion to be working in the PMO,
I had to let go of him
and recommended him to be in one of the departments
that had, um, uh, the projects
that they were working in is actually infrastructure
and under the ground and all of that.
And that's the thing that he loves.
So for you as a leader, you need to be able
to spot that.
Are the people in your team passionate
about the work that they are doing?
If they're not, you're not getting the right combination of,
uh, of team members within your, your organization.
They need to be passionate about it.
They need to find what they like can, uh,
even within my team, I know, I know their strength and,
and, uh, uh, the, the stuff that they need
to work on improving.
Like, I know that a certain lady is really good in research
and she is really good in, uh, articulating,
um, the reports and all of that.
So I, I kind of give her that.
The other one is good in linking things together.
There's one that's really good in critical thinking.
So I assign the, the work to them based on,
uh, their own strength,
and I know that they love it.
So that's, that's really important. And okay.
Yeah. Well, and, and the thing that's the thing
that's coming out in that is, um, and,
and yeah, the very first time I saw you on stage, Heather,
this was the thing that just leapt off the stage is, and,
and I think the word that captures it best is,
is kindness, right?
Is that you care about the people as much
as you care about the job
or the goals of the business or anything else.
And yeah. Uh, I So quick question for people on the, on the,
on the, in the audience.
Um, just gimme a, gimme a yeah
or gimme a boo, actually, if you've worked for someone who,
who you just really did not enjoy working for.
I know I have, I've had a couple of those leaders, a couple
of those, those people in, in my life over the years.
Um, so gimme a quick boo if you've had some. Yeah. Okay.
So we, we all know what that feels like.
And you know the thing, wow.
Oh yeah, we even got some boo hoos in there.
That's, that's, that's good.
Um, so, so we all know what that feels like.
And so, um, so,
so now give me a year if you've worked for people
that really inspired you and that you felt loyalty for,
and you would really work hard to make it happen.
Um, and yeah, I, I, I'm hoping most people can say,
holy Nora works for me.
Look at that. Good grief.
Of course. Um, uh,
but, uh, but right.
So, so most of us had that experience as well.
And very often the thing that differentiates the two is,
you know, that manager actually, you get the idea,
the feeling that they care for you, right?
They care about the business, of course,
but they care about you as well.
Um, so, so that's one thing just just to kind of
think about in your own style, is do I genuinely care
how people are or am I just going through the motions?
And you know, it, uh,
and it can, it can be difficult, right?
When, when, when you're under time pressure,
it can be difficult to make time to care
and, and to ask questions.
And, and I, I know I wrestle with that all the time.
Um, you know, as a, as a, the CEO of a startup,
I'm always super, super busy.
Um, so, so I tell you what, there, there are a couple
of questions, Heather, lemme just scroll right back up
through all those booze.
Yeah. Um, so Guy asks, um,
do you have any stories about a situation, uh,
in building on running A PMO
where you have consciously applied one
or more of these element pillars or misapplied them?
And what have you learned from that?
Uh, it, it's, it happens on a daily basis, actually.
It happens in, in every, in every meeting that I do with any
of the stakeholders, internal or or external.
With the, uh, with my, my team, uh,
my team meetings, like last week I had a,
I had a team meeting, suddenly meeting,
and we were talking about, uh, uh, an upcoming audit.
So someone was panicking
and someone was like, uh, okay,
there are too many things that are not done.
And so here I had to probably be more of a,
more of a fire, trying to encourage them
that things would work out.
And, and the, the next day they did amazing.
They were like, I was so proud of them.
And, and the audit that the, the auditor also talked about
how the team was really working well together
and their roles and responsibilities were clear
and everyone, like took on their own part
with for responsibility.
So, so it's, it was, you know, it happens on a,
on a daily basis and your meetings you can easily, uh,
switch off and on these elements, uh,
depending on, on the situation.
Excellent. And are there any way you got it badly wrong?
And what did you learn
Badly wrong?
I, I think, I think it's, it's the part of
where you are not taking care of yourself.
Probably that at some point, uh,
I had, I had very severe eczema in one of the years, like in
2000, probably 19 or 20.
And it was because of stress, and it was
because I wasn't taking care of myself.
And, uh, I had a, my friends from college,
they were like far away.
We, we were, weren't connecting very well.
And we got back together, like in that year,
and we are still together.
So my support system was, was kind of, uh, uh,
missing other than any,
of course my husband was always there,
but your friends are different for us girls.
Our girlfriends are different.
You, we need, and, and, uh, yeah.
At, at some point when, when I was overwhelmed and,
and stressed not just about work, about life, it
manifested us severe case of eczema.
'cause my health was affected.
And, uh, yeah, I got it wrong at some point that, uh,
everything is about work.
No, it's not about work.
It's about living and working both together.
And, and me as a mother also, like people expect
that you are a working mom.
So it means that you have to be working
as if you're not a mother or a wife,
and you need to be a mother as if you're not working.
So, so for you to be able to do that balanced
and, uh, it's to kind of give into that notion,
it's really tiring and you can't do that.
You, you can definitely, uh, be affected
at the end of the day if you, if you're, uh, like, uh,
not focusing on the balance of both sides of your life
Life. Brilliant. Yeah.
So, so here, here's, here's one, um,
particularly for people in, in PMO
and transformation type roles.
Um, yeah. So people usually think leadership is about,
you know, managing your team,
but the word is leadership, not management, right?
So, um, so we also have to lead people who are
above us in the organization.
We also have to lead people
who are our peers in the organization. Yeah.
Yeah. So, so talk a little bit about that.
How does, how do you change your approach?
Or do you use this, these same sort of four elements
to help you manage those relationships?
Uh, yes, exactly.
Uh, so if you are talking about the water elements, you have
to be adaptable to the style of the leader
that's above you.
So you give them what they want, but in their own words
and their own, uh, style
and their own, um, value system, let's say.
But you are not also, uh,
contradicting your own value system.
So you are adapting, but keeping your own values and,
and, uh, what you believe in intact.
Um, but you have to adapt otherwise.
Uh, if you are always arguing with your boss and,
and, uh, trying to prove that, that you are right
and they are wrong, at the end of the day,
even if they give in to your argu argument
and you think that you won, they will resent you
and the resentment will stay
and it'll affect you in the future.
So sometimes if your boss is very
argumentative, just let them win.
Let them take that when,
and show them with your actions, not with your words.
So, uh, argument, uh, doesn't get you anywhere.
I, I avoid argument with, with any of my, uh, of the people
that I deal with, whether stakeholders or, or bosses.
Uh, I showed it, I can prove
what I can do by showing them a certain report
or whatever it is my system, the awards
that I'm getting and showing them.
So that's, uh, that's important. Avoid argument.
Great advice. No, I, I love the show them.
Um, uh, I was speaking
with A-A-P-M-O leader in the National Health Service here
some months ago, and he was struggling with, um,
even getting his executives to
understand that you can't just say,
do this and do this and do this forever.
Right? There's a limit to how much you can do. Yeah.
And so, um, uh, together with you, we kind of brainstormed
with a few people and just came up
with this really simple thing of well just show them,
I'd show them what the capacity is
and show them where the workload is,
and then ask them for their help
to figure out what do you do about that.
Exactly. And so he, so he,
and he literally just, you know, one of the COO came down
to him said, here's a project,
just get it done, you know, there it is.
And so he, he said, no, no, come and look at this.
And on a whiteboard,
he'd literally just written up all the projects
and how much capacity he used and the capacity over here.
And he said, I don't have any capacity. What should I do?
Yeah, Right.
And so, so he wasn't saying no, he was asking how, but
He gave them, he gave them the facts
and he consulted the, consulted them on how to move forward.
Yeah, exactly that.
And, and the, the effect of that was
that then the C-E-O-C-O-O didn't see him as a blocker,
understood a problem existed that he didn't understand
before, and was able to do something about it.
That's a great outcome. Yeah.
That, that's leadership, right?
That's leading upwards where, you know. Exactly.
So, um, uh, and it was, you know, nice
and watery, as you say,
it is very often quite watery when you're managing upwards.
Yeah, yeah. Um, awesome.
So, um, other quick questions. There was a question up here.
Um, uh, where is it? Here we go.
Um, so this one is, is an interesting question,
a bit sort of technical modelly.
So let's see how we get on with this one.
So, uh, Ionis asks how your work
with the four styles, this, uh, the four elements, um,
uh, relates to behavioral styles, models like disc,
so dominance, inducement, submission, compliance,
for example, um, or with characters types.
So there's some people with task oriented,
some people are people oriented, for example.
How do you see these relating?
Is it kind of saying the same thing in a different way, or,
Uh, I didn't link them, actually.
They're not linked in the book,
but there is a part in the book
where we're talking about different leadership styles.
It's like two or three pages in the book.
But this is a, the way i, I see leadership, so, um,
how the nature makes me feel
and what leadership aspect reminds me of that.
So it's, it's like you can, you can say,
I didn't want to, to put a leadership
book that's, that's rigid.
I wanted you to always remember that if you feel a breeze,
then wow, this is how I want, I want
to feel when my leader is walking in the room.
So it's just trying to connect different metaphors
and ideas related to nature with the leadership elements
for you to remember them, for you to just keep them
with you all the time.
So it's, it's not really, uh, linked
to such leadership styles,
but if you go through the book,
you might find the resemblance between these and,
and some elements,
but, uh,
not one element could be one leadership style,
another people oriented.
It's only the water, it's like mixed of both.
It's all over the place.
Yeah. And, and that's a, that's a good,
that's a, a good answer.
The, the, the way I think of it, I,
I think it was Alda Einstein who said, um, uh,
all models are wrong, but some are useful, right?
Yeah. So all of these models are incomplete,
but they're all useful in different situations.
Some of them are more, a little bit more analytical, some
of them are a bit more, what I love about this is a,
for me anyway, it's kind of quite intuitive, right?
To, to just sort of think in the moment. Yeah.
I don't have to sit down and say, okay, am I, am I dealing
with a D and I and SRC?
Am I task oriented or something else?
It, it's, it's, it's, I I I, I like
Heather's model because it is intuitive and human.
At the end of the day, we're, we're people,
Right? Yeah.
Uh, we're not a set of numbers, we're not a set
of indices, but those can be useful
as well in different situations.
So if you, you know, as a, as an example, if you have a team
that's not working where you've got two people
who are just banging heads or something, then sitting down
and using a disc type model could, can be a useful way
to think about that and try and unpick it.
Yeah. So, so I don't think these,
I don't think these are competing models in any way.
It is just another way of thinking about
Exactly.
Spot on. Um, so good question.
Um, and then, and then, uh, we're, we're getting close
to the top of the hour, so I think
we'll squeeze one more in.
Um, and we'll go with Ali's question, um, which is,
uh, I take it, these, these elements are about our,
our personalities outside of work as well.
Um, uh, so can, you know,
can you take this into your personal
life and into relationships?
Hmm. Uh, so it talks, it talks about
how you behave as a leader outside of work.
Like you, for example, taking care of yourself, uh,
putting your own personal development plan, uh,
having your own your own bucket list.
So you kind of touch base on that.
Uh, but it's, it's not a, a relationship, uh, uh,
uh, like kind of book for like your life, your life partner
or your kids, or it's not really focused to towards that,
it's focused on, on leadership.
But maybe the next one,
Maybe the next one.
There we go. There we go.
Well, I did notice earlier
that you said this was your first book, right?
So we're all, we're all waiting for the next one.
We're all waiting for the next one. Yeah. Yeah.
Um, I'm actually thinking of the idea
for the next book right now.
Yeah. Um, and,
and we've got one last quick question, which is, um,
what the, what strategy and method do you use in PMO?
And please don't answer, prepare the reports
and give it to your manager.
So that's a huge question.
I mean, that's a, that's another hour, right? Right there.
Yeah. The, the PMO strategy is, uh,
I think, I don't think we will have like
five minutes to cover it.
Uh, but it's, it's mainly adapt.
I would say my PMO has always been adaptable.
Uh, the changes that happen to the organization
and whatever new, new thing that's happening, whether it's
with the strategy team or with the management, I have to go
and, and change the way I do things.
And this is why, uh, the maturity
of the PMO has increased, like, uh,
from 2019 until now, it increased multiple levels.
So, um, I think the main thing is about adaptability
and about having that trust, uh,
where people in the organization, they trust my PMO,
they're always good saying good things about them,
and, uh, about the team and, and, and the PMO,
because they're not, they're not policing them.
They're giving them the oversight that they need, um,
but they're not clear signal.
So that's maybe in a, in a nutshell.
Yeah. And, and I think that, that, this is kind of one
of the questions that we get asked at conferences again
and again, is about, you know, how do we,
how do we get the executives attention?
How do we get our seat to the table?
How do we stop being the PMO police
or whatever, whatever it is, uh,
or just being treated as tactical report generators
or, or whatever.
And, you know, I, I think that's a great answer is, uh,
you know, if, if you are constantly adapting
to whatever the problem is in the business
and addressing the key problem, the key things
that are stopping the organization achieving its goals,
then you will be seen as adding value
and life will get an awful lot better, an awful lot quickly.
And, and in fact, on that, on
That, giving ideas solutions, yeah.
A absolutely. And on that note, we, we've, we've, uh,
we actually have a free consulting office, like a one hour
workshop thing that we, that we offer people called the Case
for Change, where we help you, we give you a framework
to have that discussion with the business, right?
To, to actually formally sit down
and figure out, you know, what, what are the problems and,
and what,
What's the challenge and how to solve it?
Yeah. What, what are the root
causes, you know, in, in an hour.
We don't give you all the answers
or anything that, that would be impossible, right?
But we, we kind of, we'll, we'll, we'll,
but we give you some framework to, to kind
of start thinking about that stuff.
Uh, and actually, I'm, I'm, uh, for those of you
who know Laura Barnard, right?
Go read her book Impact impact engine,
impact book.com impact, I think it is Impact engine,
impact engine book.com.
Yes. I, I've got, actually,
I'm on my way to the house of PMO.
I've got about 30 copies of the book in my,
in my case downstairs.
Um, but, but you know, that book, a big part of
that book is about how to have that conversation.
So really big question.
Uh, I hope in that three
or four minutes we've managed to give you some,
some steerage, but I would, uh, I would definitely jump, if,
if that's something you're wrestling with,
jump onto our website and book yourself a case for change.
Lenora, if you're still on, uh, maybe you could
drop the link into the, into the chat for anyone
that's interested, that would be a good thing.
Awesome. So we're, we're, we're right up at the top. Yes.
Look at this. Look at this completely unprompted,
rapturous applause.
We love you about. Um, thank you.
Look, the, the, the, the key thing here is I want
to thank you on behalf of everyone for
bringing a new voice to leadership, right?
There are lots of styles out there of leadership,
there's lots of ways to climb a mountain, right?
And there are lots of ways to lead a team.
What you've done with this book is, um,
really helped shine a light on a human style
of leadership, right?
That's, that's rooted in kindness.
And, and I have the honor of knowing you fairly well.
And so I know that that is a part of who you are.
And so, exactly. So, you know, on behalf
of everybody who's gonna read the book,
who's been on the webinar, I want you to, I want
to thank you for sharing that wisdom, um,
and sharing your kindness with the rest of the world.
Um, thank you.
So do you wanna put the QR code up again just at the end,
Heather, if anybody missed it earlier,
uh, anyone that would like,
It's there. I'm,
am I not sharing the
Screen? Uh, no. No,
we're not. I
Am sharing.
Oh, are you Okay. Alright. Still? Oh, yes, yes. Sorry.
I, I is it there pinned you? I, I pinned you on top.
My apologies. Um, no problem. Fantastic.
So anybody that wants a, a copy of the book,
dive over there, grab yourself a copy.
Um, do look out for other webinars, uh, from us.
We have all sorts of, we cover all sorts of topics, uh,
and we try and make them kind of fun and energetic.
Um, uh, so, uh, do look for new webinars from us.
In a couple of weeks we'll be doing a demo webinar
for our portfolio management software.
Uh, that's very exciting. You should come and see it.
It's rather potentially game changing.
Heather was on one of those de demos a couple of months ago.
Yeah. So it was very useful. It was a lot of fun. Okay.
Thank you so much for having me.
So thank everybody. Thank you for attending.
Thank you everyone.