WEBVTT

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America.

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It was, you know, founder, president,

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and, uh, like I said, all round demigod, that,

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that made the PMO Global Alliance happen, uh, you know,

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was the driver behind the, the, the, the Global awards

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and all of this kind of good stuff.

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And, and it really is a, the,

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the PMO GA is just a fantastic community.

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If, if you're not in the PMO, ga,

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go check it out and join up.

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Um, but it's a fabulous community of PMO leaders

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and PMO practitioners around the world.

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Yeah. And, um, part of,

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and really the driver for today is that through

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that community, uh,

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the PMI has just released a, a, a new report.

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Uh, that's all about how to,

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how do you bridge the gap, right?

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It seems like everyone that cares about PMOs

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right now, and anyone that cares about strategy

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and strategy execution is talking about the gap, right?

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The strategy to execution gap.

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So, so the, the, the latest report was about

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how do you bridge that gap, right?

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How, what are the things that the executives care about?

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What are the things that PMOs are delivering,

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or what the PMOs are focused on?

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Um, what are the, what are the mismatches?

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So I'm hoping that today we're going to be able to dig into

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some of the, some of the myths, some of the insights,

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uh, from the report.

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And, uh, and then in particular,

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dig a little bit into the, so what, right.

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What do we do with that?

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Well, first of all, thank you very much, Stuart,

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for the opportunity to be here again with you.

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It's always a great pleasure.

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Thank you for all of you that are connecting with us today.

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So, uh, this, this, this report, by the way, I,

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I've just posted, uh, a link

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where you can find more information about

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that if you didn't have a chance.

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This, this report is, is really interesting.

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It's something that we, I, I designed together

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with top leadership area at PMI, uh,

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last year in the, in the beginning of last year.

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Because I, I, I wanted to, to find some,

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some data that could really show us

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how aligned PMO professionals are in terms

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of understanding expectations, you know, of,

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of our most important customer, the, the executives.

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Uh, and I had my feeling right, uh, based on,

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on all this work that we've,

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we've been developing the last years.

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But the data showed us something very interesting, you know,

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uh, uh, with deep, uh, information

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and also some insights that I could imagine.

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But basically, it, it showed exactly what I, I,

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I imagined that that could, could be, uh, uh, the,

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the reality of many PMOs, that is the fact that in many

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companies, what PMO leaders are trying to do is not exactly

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what the executives are expecting them to do.

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You know? So, uh, and, and,

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and we say, we, we see many PMO leaders saying, we need

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to be more strategic, blah, blah, blah.

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But many of them, it's only words

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in the wind, you know?

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So it, it doesn't happen in the reality.

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And there are many reasons for that.

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I know sometimes it's not because they don't want that, but,

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but anyway, uh, there is still a big distance between

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what PMOs are doing today

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and what our executives really value, you know, uh, and,

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and expect that these PMOs could become real

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partners, strategic partners.

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So, uh, this report brought us, uh, now I believe a lot

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of information that can make us think

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or rethink about ourselves, you know, what we are doing,

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what we are prioritizing, what really matters, you know,

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for, for those that we are serving to,

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I think this is the big point.

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And, and just in terms of methodology, sometimes you hear,

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um, you know, you'll, you'll see vendors will often do this,

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and as a, as a software vendor, right?

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I, I know, 'cause I've been in, I've been part

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of organizations that have done it where a vendor will, um,

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go out, commission, commission some research, right?

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But actually what they're trying

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to do is prove their point of view.

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And so they will, so they will skew the customers

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and it'll be, you know, they'll have asked 30 customers

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who they, or 30 people who they, you know,

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they know them all and they know what they're gonna say in

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advance and all this kind of stuff.

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That's not what happened here with the PMI research.

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You guys have got a pretty robust

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research, research team, right?

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And you, you went out thousands of PMOs.

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Yeah. This is, this is something that surprised me when I,

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when I started at BMI

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and start to talk with people from total leadership.

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It's really surprised me

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because I imagine that things were a little different, uh,

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exactly because of what you said.

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But it's not like that. Actually, most of all this research

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that you see is, is developed by, by third parties,

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you know, uh, with expertise on that.

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And most of them,

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people not even know that is PMI

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that is surveying them, right?

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So it really surprises me, you know?

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And, but it makes sense because it creates kind

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of bias, you know?

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So if, oh, I'm PMII am asking you about this,

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it's very, very possible that you will, will answer,

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you know, uh, uh, in a way that will make PMI happy,

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you know, maybe, I dunno, right?

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Because you, you want to feel aligned with, you know,

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with the voice of the future of PMI.

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So it makes sense. So when, when the, the, the,

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our colleague responsible, uh, uh, for that area told me,

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uh, these details, you know, I said, wow, it's really cool,

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you know, because actually, uh, things, uh, we, what,

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what we we do is, I, I told them what I want

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to know, right?

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Not, not in terms of of the answer that I want,

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but what I want to know more, you know, about that, how is

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that specific behavior?

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And they start to design everything, you know, and,

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and hire companies.

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So that's why this big research that you'll see

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that are releases from time to time, they take some time,

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you know, usually it's a big one each semester, you know?

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And why, because they are very expensive. You know?

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I imagine that you should be simpler, you know, like, like,

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uh, academic research, you know,

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that sometimes we are trying to do for our PhD.

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No, no, no. It's, it's really complex

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and very expensive to do that.

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But on the other side, we have something pretty reliable,

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you know, so it's something cool. Yeah.

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Excellent. So, so

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before we jump into the first question, which we,

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or the first learning from the research, lemme just share,

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lemme just share my screen, um, for a quick second.

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So if you're wondering what research we're talking about,

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it's this research here.

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And if I press, hopefully if I press

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enter now, there you go.

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There's the link to the research. Yeah.

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Um, so, uh, so you can get a copy of this for free,

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I think Americo, even if you're not a PMI member,

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Uh, actually, uh, you need

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To, or is a PMI members only,

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But you can, you can have a free account, right?

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We need to be a user, actually, right?

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So if you are a user at a website, you can download it.

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You don't need to to be a, a, a a, a full

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Member. Okay? So

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this is the report that we're looking at.

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So quickly, very quickly to the audience now, uh,

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if you could jump into chat

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and, uh, uh, give us a quick yes.

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If you have downloaded and had a look at this report.

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I'm interested to see if anybody's actually opened it up.

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Yeah, yeah. In the article that I shared with you, uh,

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in the chat, actually, uh, it's,

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it's more an analysis about the report.

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So you see some graphs, you know, from the report, but,

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but it's not the report by itself.

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You'll find the, the link to the report there.

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Okay, cool. So we've got a few, we've got a few yeses,

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so, so that's great.

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Not everybody's seen it. So if you've read it,

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you're not allowed to answer the next question.

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So here's the, here's the first question.

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What do you think senior executives says?

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So, and, and America, I love

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what the phrase you used earlier, right?

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The most important customer

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of the PMO is the senior leadership team.

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It's not the only customer, but it's the most important

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Customer. Exactly. Exactly.

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Yeah.

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And, and it brings some impacts, you know, so the, the,

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the first point is why should we focus

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a lot on, on the executive level, right?

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First of all, because they pay the bill, right?

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So it's something important, right?

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Uh, and, and also

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because in a certain way, what you can do for them

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can generate maybe the most impactful outcomes

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for the organization, right?

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So there is nothing, there is no problem.

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It's not, it's not a wrong to generate

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operational value or tactical value.

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There are many PMOs

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that they are doing a fantastic job managing resources,

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supporting project planning.

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All of those things are very tactical and operational,

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and it's okay, but they, uh, they make much more sense

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for other groups of customers.

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You know, project managers,

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maybe project team members, functional managers.

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All of them are important.

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But if you understand that all of them, they have, they,

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they, they have their all value chain, you know,

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and all this chains, they will converge to

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how the PMO is perceived by the organization.

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Each of them will have a different weight.

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I could say, you know, and, and,

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and what is the PMO value for an organization?

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It's the balance of how all of them

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perceive the value of what you are doing,

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but weighted by the relevance of each one.

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You know? So if, if the project me members love you,

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but the executives hate you, you have a problem, right?

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Even if we have more team members,

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then executive, that's the idea, right?

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And the way I think of it, Americo is, right, if,

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if you think of the PMO as a business,

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Right? Exactly. Yeah.

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You have, you have a customer,

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Yeah. Key accounts,

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I could say.

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Who's paying the bill, right?

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The customer's paying the customer, yeah.

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Is paying the bill. But you also have a supply chain, right?

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And the supply chain.

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So those are the people in this case

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who are delivering the project, supplying the IT resources,

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providing, uh, financial data and so on, right?

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So they're all stakeholders.

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And, um, so, so, uh,

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but they're more, a lot of them are, they are customers in

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that they want things from you,

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but they're almost supply side customers, right?

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They're, they're providing to you.

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But the one that's paying the bill, that's the executive.

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And that's why we care at the end of the day. Yeah. Yeah.

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And, and, and the executives have a, you know,

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it's their job to deliver

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the business results of the business.

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Okay. Exactly. And the PMO is there to support them.

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So, into the chat very quickly, um, uh,

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if you would, so if you've already read the report

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or seen America's Post,

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you're disqualified, you're not allowed to answer.

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But if you haven't, what do you think is the most important

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thing, the thing that the ex the executives,

251
00:12:05.025 --> 00:12:06.685
the most important customer of the PMO?

252
00:12:06.995 --> 00:12:10.485
What is the, the thing that is most important to them?

253
00:12:11.815 --> 00:12:14.505
Have a quick guess. ROI straight in there

254
00:12:14.845 --> 00:12:16.425
and we'll come, we'll come to our shocks

255
00:12:16.545 --> 00:12:17.585
question on ROI in a moment.

256
00:12:21.415 --> 00:12:23.685
We've got lots of ROI, we've got value outcomes.

257
00:12:23.885 --> 00:12:26.885
I like the way you guys are thinking. Yeah, I love it.

258
00:12:27.195 --> 00:12:28.765
Love it. Value and transparency.

259
00:12:31.015 --> 00:12:34.195
Uh, we want business results, benefits, okay,

260
00:12:35.235 --> 00:12:39.065
I really like this 'cause these are all the outcomes of

261
00:12:39.975 --> 00:12:43.955
what we're doing, but I'm, I'm interested in what,

262
00:12:44.025 --> 00:12:45.675
what do you think, which service,

263
00:12:46.215 --> 00:12:48.115
if you like, what capability?

264
00:12:48.115 --> 00:12:49.235
That's the word you use, right?

265
00:12:49.235 --> 00:12:50.795
America in the, the report. Yeah.

266
00:12:50.795 --> 00:12:51.955
Yeah. What, what

267
00:12:52.045 --> 00:12:54.155
Capability do you think executives find

268
00:12:54.525 --> 00:12:55.835
would, uh, think of this

269
00:12:56.115 --> 00:12:57.115
Question? Yeah, that's a, a very

270
00:12:57.115 --> 00:12:57.755
interesting question

271
00:12:58.225 --> 00:13:02.235
because, uh, one thing that we realized when we were working

272
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with hundreds of PMOs developing the, the PMI PMO XI guide,

273
00:13:07.095 --> 00:13:12.035
one thing that was really clear is that value is a very

274
00:13:13.645 --> 00:13:16.355
broad concept, you know, so value as,

275
00:13:16.415 --> 00:13:19.315
as beauty is in the eye of the beholder, you will read

276
00:13:19.315 --> 00:13:20.715
that on the G, right?

277
00:13:21.015 --> 00:13:24.715
And, and, and so for some people, value will be,

278
00:13:24.715 --> 00:13:28.275
money will be the ROI, for some people, maybe not.

279
00:13:29.295 --> 00:13:33.355
So what I'm saying is, what make people

280
00:13:33.875 --> 00:13:38.515
perceive the PMO as a partner, a a group of people

281
00:13:38.615 --> 00:13:41.555
or a leader that they can trust?

282
00:13:42.655 --> 00:13:46.795
Can be, can, can go beyond the numbers.

283
00:13:47.015 --> 00:13:48.715
That's the point. You know?

284
00:13:49.335 --> 00:13:54.075
So in a, in a certain way, I think what we could say that,

285
00:13:54.105 --> 00:13:58.435
that can cover all these possibilities is we are here

286
00:13:58.535 --> 00:14:00.475
to make you successful.

287
00:14:00.735 --> 00:14:02.955
You, my, my customer, the, the executive.

288
00:14:03.295 --> 00:14:08.035
And, and being successful means, okay, I need to,

289
00:14:08.175 --> 00:14:10.675
to meet the strategic objectives.

290
00:14:11.125 --> 00:14:15.395
Maybe strategic objectives can be ROI, maybe not,

291
00:14:15.425 --> 00:14:18.715
depending on where you are, if you are working for A NGO,

292
00:14:18.715 --> 00:14:21.355
or if you are working, you know, maybe it's different.

293
00:14:21.855 --> 00:14:25.355
Uh, so there are many different possibilities,

294
00:14:25.495 --> 00:14:28.195
and we need to understand the context where we are

295
00:14:28.695 --> 00:14:30.995
to establish what is really important for

296
00:14:30.995 --> 00:14:32.195
that specific customer.

297
00:14:32.715 --> 00:14:34.875
I, I have an, a very interesting example.

298
00:14:35.275 --> 00:14:38.435
A few weeks ago, I was in a conversation with, with a a

299
00:14:39.335 --> 00:14:41.135
a C-level, uh, guy.

300
00:14:41.235 --> 00:14:45.975
And, and he, he, he told me that for him, one of the things

301
00:14:46.005 --> 00:14:50.015
that make him love the PMO is the fact that

302
00:14:50.075 --> 00:14:54.205
before the PMO actually, uh, in many, many, uh,

303
00:14:54.275 --> 00:14:57.895
executive meetings, he was,

304
00:14:59.025 --> 00:15:01.525
he was in, in, uh, very shameful situations

305
00:15:01.525 --> 00:15:06.165
because he, he, he, he told to his, uh,

306
00:15:06.295 --> 00:15:07.365
peers numbers,

307
00:15:07.985 --> 00:15:11.445
and a few times later, she, uh, he had to step back,

308
00:15:11.505 --> 00:15:13.445
you know, because they, they, they, they,

309
00:15:13.445 --> 00:15:14.885
they weren't reliable.

310
00:15:15.345 --> 00:15:17.645
And for him it was very uncomfortable.

311
00:15:18.305 --> 00:15:20.605
So, look, it's not about ROI,

312
00:15:20.635 --> 00:15:22.885
it's not about strategic goals.

313
00:15:22.955 --> 00:15:27.885
It's about how he feel, you know, when he is just doing

314
00:15:28.425 --> 00:15:30.845
his work, you know, and we are helping that.

315
00:15:30.945 --> 00:15:34.245
How can we measure this? What is the, the magical number?

316
00:15:34.275 --> 00:15:36.565
It's not a number, it's much more a feeling,

317
00:15:36.705 --> 00:15:38.565
but it is important because this way,

318
00:15:38.915 --> 00:15:41.565
that guy feel more successful.

319
00:15:41.785 --> 00:15:43.045
You know, so, so

320
00:15:43.475 --> 00:15:44.765
This is, yeah. So a different

321
00:15:45.045 --> 00:15:46.085
Approach, I think, you know,

322
00:15:46.505 --> 00:15:48.885
So I like to think of it as, as the head, the heart,

323
00:15:48.885 --> 00:15:50.605
and the heartbreak, right?

324
00:15:50.945 --> 00:15:52.285
So the head and the heart and the heartbreak,

325
00:15:52.285 --> 00:15:54.805
the head is the financial ROI and the, the hard

326
00:15:55.185 --> 00:15:56.645
Of course. Yeah. Yeah.

327
00:15:56.825 --> 00:15:59.805
Um, but, but not just financial, right?

328
00:15:59.825 --> 00:16:03.125
The R in ROI, right?

329
00:16:03.665 --> 00:16:06.925
Strict textbook, the r and ROI is the financial return.

330
00:16:07.465 --> 00:16:11.365
But actually in the real world, it isn't the R-N-R-O-I is

331
00:16:12.125 --> 00:16:14.405
whatever value you want to deliver to the organiz.

332
00:16:14.585 --> 00:16:16.045
So it, I'm, I'm, I'm,

333
00:16:16.145 --> 00:16:18.285
I'm deliberately not using the words I normally use.

334
00:16:18.445 --> 00:16:19.445
'cause we're gonna come to it in a second.

335
00:16:20.025 --> 00:16:23.605
Um, but the, the, the, the R-N-R-O-I

336
00:16:24.225 --> 00:16:25.365
can mean different things, right?

337
00:16:25.385 --> 00:16:28.245
So the head stuff is about the R maximizing the r

338
00:16:28.415 --> 00:16:30.005
maximizing the return. Exactly.

339
00:16:30.005 --> 00:16:32.165
Exactly. And if you think, if you are PMO leader,

340
00:16:32.415 --> 00:16:33.765
think about your job.

341
00:16:33.945 --> 00:16:37.165
You know, I'm sure that there are many things that you do

342
00:16:37.555 --> 00:16:41.245
that enable your customers, the executives, maybe

343
00:16:41.745 --> 00:16:43.485
to be more successful.

344
00:16:44.025 --> 00:16:48.485
But you cannot say that, oh, it'll increase the ROI

345
00:16:48.545 --> 00:16:50.725
of our projects in 10%.

346
00:16:50.825 --> 00:16:53.245
You cannot say that, right? It's okay.

347
00:16:53.245 --> 00:16:56.445
Because if you ask them, what do you think about us?

348
00:16:56.475 --> 00:16:59.765
They will say, okay, I cannot live without you, you know,

349
00:16:59.905 --> 00:17:01.605
not because of the numbers, but

350
00:17:01.605 --> 00:17:03.725
because of, of this perception

351
00:17:04.035 --> 00:17:06.685
that you are doing something valuable for me.

352
00:17:07.345 --> 00:17:09.365
And that's the heart, right? That's the heart, yeah.

353
00:17:09.365 --> 00:17:10.725
That I'm talking about right

354
00:17:11.395 --> 00:17:12.565
Side of, of that, right?

355
00:17:12.875 --> 00:17:15.045
Yeah. Yeah. So the heart is about delivering those things

356
00:17:15.045 --> 00:17:17.045
that as an executive, help me feel good.

357
00:17:17.065 --> 00:17:19.005
So, do I feel comfortable in the data?

358
00:17:19.905 --> 00:17:22.885
Do I ha do I understand how we're making decisions?

359
00:17:22.985 --> 00:17:25.285
Do I understand where all the resource, like

360
00:17:25.285 --> 00:17:26.565
that stuff makes me feel good?

361
00:17:26.565 --> 00:17:30.085
Does it deliver a direct ROI? No, no. Yeah, yeah.

362
00:17:30.085 --> 00:17:33.365
But it makes me feel good. Like I can do my job, right?

363
00:17:33.365 --> 00:17:36.125
And then the heartbreak is projects that go horribly,

364
00:17:36.125 --> 00:17:37.445
horribly wrong, right?

365
00:17:37.465 --> 00:17:40.005
So it's actually about eliminating the heartbreak, right?

366
00:17:40.005 --> 00:17:41.525
How do I, how do I help you do that?

367
00:17:41.945 --> 00:17:45.405
So, So, so I come back to the, the report for a second.

368
00:17:45.465 --> 00:17:50.445
So in the report, right there was, was about, uh, what,

369
00:17:50.505 --> 00:17:51.765
you know, which services or which,

370
00:17:51.765 --> 00:17:53.405
which capabilities are most important.

371
00:17:53.545 --> 00:17:56.045
And strategic alignment came out on top.

372
00:17:57.275 --> 00:17:59.595
Absolutely. Right? So, so the thing

373
00:17:59.595 --> 00:18:02.195
that the execs cared about most was strategic alignment.

374
00:18:03.855 --> 00:18:06.555
Did, uh, from the, the, the research America,

375
00:18:07.895 --> 00:18:09.835
how well aligned were PMOs with that?

376
00:18:12.405 --> 00:18:15.255
Well, uh, we, we had some,

377
00:18:15.325 --> 00:18:17.655
some specific topics, right?

378
00:18:17.675 --> 00:18:19.815
So strategic alignment was one of them.

379
00:18:20.555 --> 00:18:22.695
Uh, and, and we saw that actually,

380
00:18:22.755 --> 00:18:26.655
if we take the two most important ones selected by,

381
00:18:26.995 --> 00:18:31.285
by executives, then selected by VMO leaders, we see

382
00:18:31.285 --> 00:18:32.405
that actually, uh,

383
00:18:32.765 --> 00:18:34.845
sical alignment was the most important one,

384
00:18:34.845 --> 00:18:36.405
definitely for executives.

385
00:18:36.945 --> 00:18:39.685
Uh, but project management stuff

386
00:18:40.645 --> 00:18:42.625
was the most important one.

387
00:18:44.035 --> 00:18:46.245
Also with strategic alignment.

388
00:18:46.625 --> 00:18:51.085
But they were almost equal, you know, uh, for PMO leaders.

389
00:18:51.585 --> 00:18:54.525
So it means that, okay, we are also saying

390
00:18:54.555 --> 00:18:57.045
that we are concerned about strategic alignment,

391
00:18:57.785 --> 00:19:00.845
but we have a very big focus on how we are doing things,

392
00:19:00.985 --> 00:19:02.525
you know, and all this stuff.

393
00:19:02.985 --> 00:19:06.525
And as I said, one thing is what you say, one other thing is

394
00:19:06.525 --> 00:19:07.525
what you do, right?

395
00:19:07.985 --> 00:19:11.245
Uh, and, and when we look closer, you know

396
00:19:11.315 --> 00:19:12.805
what people are really doing.

397
00:19:14.205 --> 00:19:16.845
I dunno, maybe you share the same feeling,

398
00:19:16.985 --> 00:19:21.505
but is that being, uh, aligned strategically?

399
00:19:21.725 --> 00:19:26.185
For many people, it is much more a wish than something

400
00:19:26.185 --> 00:19:28.665
that they are really able to do, you know,

401
00:19:28.665 --> 00:19:30.665
because of many, many difficulties.

402
00:19:31.125 --> 00:19:32.585
So what I understand,

403
00:19:33.125 --> 00:19:37.305
and that's what we defend on the guide, that is anything

404
00:19:37.305 --> 00:19:39.465
that you are trying to do as a PMO.

405
00:19:39.525 --> 00:19:42.785
So the services that you are providing, the functions,

406
00:19:42.795 --> 00:19:45.785
activities, everything should be based on a,

407
00:19:46.285 --> 00:19:48.505
on a specific need, right?

408
00:19:48.805 --> 00:19:51.265
And of course, in theory, all these executives,

409
00:19:51.265 --> 00:19:54.145
they have this need, you know, they want strategic alignment

410
00:19:54.405 --> 00:19:57.105
and all of those things that are, are related to that.

411
00:19:57.725 --> 00:20:01.665
But the, the, the, the reality is that many of these

412
00:20:02.275 --> 00:20:05.225
executives, they want that,

413
00:20:05.925 --> 00:20:07.745
but they are not used to do that.

414
00:20:08.045 --> 00:20:11.225
And when we come with all our stuff, you know,

415
00:20:11.605 --> 00:20:14.185
our technical things, you know,

416
00:20:14.185 --> 00:20:18.665
and they tell them, Hey, that's how you should work on this.

417
00:20:19.725 --> 00:20:23.785
We have, again, the human side of this process coming up.

418
00:20:24.085 --> 00:20:27.025
And we have some resistances, we have some,

419
00:20:27.025 --> 00:20:30.545
everything is normal because it's a journey of development.

420
00:20:30.965 --> 00:20:33.545
But, but the pro, the point is, what I'm trying to do

421
00:20:33.545 --> 00:20:36.905
to say is it's not a technical problem.

422
00:20:37.205 --> 00:20:39.705
We know what to do, right? We know what to do.

423
00:20:41.015 --> 00:20:45.585
What can we say that is very new, about 40 photo management

424
00:20:45.645 --> 00:20:47.525
or about benefit management?

425
00:20:47.625 --> 00:20:49.885
We know what to do. The big deal,

426
00:20:50.065 --> 00:20:52.285
the big challenge is dealing with people,

427
00:20:52.905 --> 00:20:56.285
how we can convince or how we can better than convince.

428
00:20:56.285 --> 00:20:58.645
Because convince looks something punctual,

429
00:20:59.055 --> 00:21:00.085
it'll happen today.

430
00:21:00.145 --> 00:21:04.005
You are convinced. But it's not about convincing people.

431
00:21:04.435 --> 00:21:08.285
It's about changing people, changing their culture,

432
00:21:08.805 --> 00:21:12.285
changing their way of see things, you know?

433
00:21:12.505 --> 00:21:13.685
And, and it takes time.

434
00:21:13.955 --> 00:21:18.925
Because if you try to harder, maybe what you will

435
00:21:19.435 --> 00:21:22.205
here is who do you believe you are, you know,

436
00:21:22.235 --> 00:21:24.965
that is coming here to tell me how I should work.

437
00:21:25.365 --> 00:21:27.245
I know how to do that. I'm here for years.

438
00:21:27.905 --> 00:21:30.845
How many of you already heard something like that? Right?

439
00:21:31.465 --> 00:21:32.805
And that's exactly the point,

440
00:21:32.805 --> 00:21:35.725
because we are believing that it's only a matter

441
00:21:35.825 --> 00:21:37.005
of technical stuff.

442
00:21:37.345 --> 00:21:40.665
If we present something really great

443
00:21:41.615 --> 00:21:44.025
with excellence, it'll happen.

444
00:21:44.525 --> 00:21:47.585
But it's not like that, you know? So that's

445
00:21:47.585 --> 00:21:49.185
What I, so, so, so I've got a quick question

446
00:21:49.185 --> 00:21:52.305
for the audience then, which is, if, if,

447
00:21:53.115 --> 00:21:56.905
since strategic alignment is the most important thing

448
00:21:56.905 --> 00:21:58.305
to executives, right?

449
00:21:58.725 --> 00:22:01.185
And by the way, the best way to achieve strategic alignment,

450
00:22:01.605 --> 00:22:04.665
I'm gonna wave the flag, is using a methodology called a HP

451
00:22:04.945 --> 00:22:06.825
Analytic Hierarchy Process, uh,

452
00:22:06.995 --> 00:22:10.585
which is available in our software, transparent choice.com.

453
00:22:10.645 --> 00:22:11.945
Go check it out. It's marvelous.

454
00:22:11.945 --> 00:22:13.745
But set the advert aside for a second.

455
00:22:14.525 --> 00:22:17.025
Um, so jump into the chat, everyone,

456
00:22:17.405 --> 00:22:21.585
and zero to 10, zero being what strategy,

457
00:22:22.245 --> 00:22:25.585
and 10 being everything we do is very deliberately

458
00:22:25.925 --> 00:22:28.105
and accurately aligned with our strategy.

459
00:22:28.395 --> 00:22:30.425
Where would you say you are in your organization?

460
00:22:30.735 --> 00:22:34.385
Zero being no alignment, 10 being perfectly aligned.

461
00:22:35.045 --> 00:22:36.985
I'm really interested to see what kind of spread we get.

462
00:22:37.045 --> 00:22:40.105
And we, I'm expecting it to be all over the place, right?

463
00:22:41.085 --> 00:22:42.105
So we've got a few fives,

464
00:22:42.105 --> 00:22:43.385
got a few fours, we've got an eight.

465
00:22:44.005 --> 00:22:46.745
Wow, that's punchy. That's, that's brave. Okay, great.

466
00:22:46.895 --> 00:22:50.385
Love that. Um, six.

467
00:22:50.775 --> 00:22:52.705
Okay, fantastic.

468
00:22:56.985 --> 00:22:58.635
What if, what about if we say

469
00:22:58.955 --> 00:23:00.155
everything is perfectly aligned?

470
00:23:00.625 --> 00:23:01.635
Yeah, I, I would,

471
00:23:02.565 --> 00:23:04.795
There is something about that, Stuart, that I,

472
00:23:05.635 --> 00:23:09.275
I heard about more than one people, uh, in our community

473
00:23:09.275 --> 00:23:11.355
during our discussions in the last years.

474
00:23:11.935 --> 00:23:16.395
Uh, because, uh, when they, they were trying to use, uh,

475
00:23:16.395 --> 00:23:18.755
something like transferring choice, for example,

476
00:23:18.755 --> 00:23:19.755
that is fantastic.

477
00:23:20.455 --> 00:23:23.355
We, we are establishing, for example, criteria

478
00:23:23.775 --> 00:23:25.235
for decision making, right?

479
00:23:25.855 --> 00:23:29.115
And many people when see that, they say,

480
00:23:29.175 --> 00:23:30.195
wow, it's fantastic.

481
00:23:30.425 --> 00:23:32.315
Look, that software, you know, that platform,

482
00:23:32.335 --> 00:23:33.955
we can now make decisions.

483
00:23:34.255 --> 00:23:36.355
I'm talking about US PMO leaders, right?

484
00:23:36.775 --> 00:23:39.595
And we say, okay, so again, excellence.

485
00:23:39.815 --> 00:23:44.115
And we come to the executives with our list of

486
00:23:45.205 --> 00:23:47.845
criteria, you know, that should be used

487
00:23:47.845 --> 00:23:50.885
because that's how we should decide.

488
00:23:51.025 --> 00:23:54.165
You know, that's how people decide about their portfolio.

489
00:23:54.625 --> 00:23:56.165
And they look to that

490
00:23:56.505 --> 00:23:58.885
and say, come on, who do you believe you are?

491
00:23:59.025 --> 00:24:00.725
You know, I know how to make decisions.

492
00:24:01.985 --> 00:24:06.635
And a big wall, you know, is created

493
00:24:06.635 --> 00:24:08.315
between what you are trying to do.

494
00:24:08.455 --> 00:24:11.505
And bam, one thing that I saw

495
00:24:11.535 --> 00:24:16.425
that is interesting is, uh, some people told me

496
00:24:16.455 --> 00:24:21.145
that they started mapping the way

497
00:24:21.215 --> 00:24:23.185
that they make a decision today.

498
00:24:23.805 --> 00:24:26.985
It, it's not about, if you agree with that, it's not about,

499
00:24:27.205 --> 00:24:30.585
if it's aligned with the best practice, it's only about,

500
00:24:30.925 --> 00:24:34.145
let me try to create a model with a software

501
00:24:34.955 --> 00:24:39.565
that can replicate the way that they make a decision.

502
00:24:40.665 --> 00:24:44.605
And over time, we will try to improve it.

503
00:24:44.975 --> 00:24:47.445
We'll try to add something else, you know,

504
00:24:47.575 --> 00:24:51.325
maybe change the criteria, try to make them see that, hmm,

505
00:24:51.635 --> 00:24:54.805
this one maybe is, doesn't make too much sense, you know,

506
00:24:54.805 --> 00:24:56.845
it's too much personal, blah, blah, blah.

507
00:24:56.945 --> 00:25:00.405
But, but the first start point is,

508
00:25:00.785 --> 00:25:02.965
let me translate the way that you decide.

509
00:25:02.965 --> 00:25:05.245
Because if you give them a result

510
00:25:05.315 --> 00:25:08.765
that is different from the way that they see, they will say,

511
00:25:08.775 --> 00:25:11.005
sorry, it doesn't work. It makes sense,

512
00:25:11.005 --> 00:25:12.005
Right? So, so that's,

513
00:25:12.005 --> 00:25:13.045
that's really key, right?

514
00:25:13.105 --> 00:25:17.605
So, so, um, the, there's a real paradox here, right?

515
00:25:17.905 --> 00:25:21.085
So, so the, if you go to the executive team

516
00:25:21.145 --> 00:25:24.125
and say, I know how to fix this, and I'm gonna go

517
00:25:24.125 --> 00:25:25.805
and fix it, and I'm gonna give you a solution

518
00:25:25.805 --> 00:25:27.485
that will fail, doesn't, it doesn't matter

519
00:25:27.485 --> 00:25:29.085
what solution you come up with, it will fail.

520
00:25:30.325 --> 00:25:32.885
'cause people, especially senior leaders, they don't,

521
00:25:32.885 --> 00:25:34.445
they don't want things to be forced on them.

522
00:25:34.445 --> 00:25:35.805
They wanna, they wanna have a bit of control,

523
00:25:35.825 --> 00:25:37.565
and they wanna feel like they're exci

524
00:25:37.655 --> 00:25:38.765
exercising their judgment.

525
00:25:39.465 --> 00:25:40.685
And, and we were talking about this,

526
00:25:40.685 --> 00:25:41.885
Rebecca Reynolds is on here.

527
00:25:42.185 --> 00:25:45.565
Um, she was on last month's webinar, uh,

528
00:25:45.675 --> 00:25:49.525
with Fred Casagrande and, um, uh, and Mike Cannon.

529
00:25:50.505 --> 00:25:51.965
So this is one of the things we were talking about there.

530
00:25:52.145 --> 00:25:56.925
So the, the, the, the point is, first of all, they have

531
00:25:56.925 --> 00:25:59.805
to be willing to prioritize, right?

532
00:25:59.825 --> 00:26:02.045
So, so they want strategic alignment,

533
00:26:02.905 --> 00:26:06.405
but if they're not willing to then say no

534
00:26:06.465 --> 00:26:08.455
to things, right?

535
00:26:08.455 --> 00:26:09.455
Because just saying yes

536
00:26:09.455 --> 00:26:11.735
to everything isn't strategic alignment, right?

537
00:26:12.005 --> 00:26:13.945
That's, that's just not doing your job.

538
00:26:14.665 --> 00:26:17.185
Absolutely. So, so, um,

539
00:26:17.485 --> 00:26:19.585
so strategic alignment requires prioritization.

540
00:26:19.605 --> 00:26:21.185
So you'd be amazed, this is, this is

541
00:26:21.185 --> 00:26:22.425
where we spend all our time, right?

542
00:26:22.885 --> 00:26:25.825
Um, so you'd be amazed how often executive teams say, well,

543
00:26:26.365 --> 00:26:27.585
why do I need to prioritize?

544
00:26:27.885 --> 00:26:29.625
Why do I need to do that? Well, you want it

545
00:26:29.625 --> 00:26:30.785
to be strategically aligned, right?

546
00:26:30.785 --> 00:26:32.505
You want to, you wanna achieve your business goals. Yeah.

547
00:26:33.605 --> 00:26:35.665
And you understand, we don't have enough resources,

548
00:26:35.675 --> 00:26:37.145
don't we really?

549
00:26:37.685 --> 00:26:39.465
Oh, okay. Right.

550
00:26:40.445 --> 00:26:43.645
Um, uh, so, okay, we don't have enough resources, so we have

551
00:26:43.645 --> 00:26:45.365
to prioritize if we're gonna deliver.

552
00:26:45.465 --> 00:26:47.205
So do you want us to prioritize randomly

553
00:26:47.205 --> 00:26:48.485
throw dots at the dart board?

554
00:26:48.865 --> 00:26:51.525
Or should we get serious and design a process together?

555
00:26:52.225 --> 00:26:54.845
So, so the PMO should not be making prioritization

556
00:26:55.085 --> 00:26:56.365
decisions at all, ever.

557
00:26:57.885 --> 00:26:59.505
The business should be making the decisions,

558
00:26:59.505 --> 00:27:02.665
but the PMO, as you said, America should be supporting

559
00:27:02.665 --> 00:27:05.385
that process, making sure that the process is good,

560
00:27:05.385 --> 00:27:06.425
process transparent.

561
00:27:06.425 --> 00:27:09.865
There's buy-in. The, so the, the reason

562
00:27:09.865 --> 00:27:13.265
that a HP comes out on top of the pile is

563
00:27:13.265 --> 00:27:15.905
because it is both analytical, right?

564
00:27:15.905 --> 00:27:17.625
So it, it actually gives you a measure

565
00:27:17.625 --> 00:27:18.785
of strategic alignment.

566
00:27:19.255 --> 00:27:22.265
Exactly. But it's also really powerful at building the

567
00:27:22.265 --> 00:27:23.825
buy-in that you need to get there.

568
00:27:24.205 --> 00:27:25.265
If, if you try just

569
00:27:25.265 --> 00:27:27.745
to get alignment without buy-in, you're dead.

570
00:27:28.625 --> 00:27:29.745
Absolutely. Absolutely. If

571
00:27:29.745 --> 00:27:30.865
You have buy-in without alignment,

572
00:27:30.975 --> 00:27:32.745
then you're gonna lose your buy-in really quickly,

573
00:27:32.815 --> 00:27:34.665
because execs know it, right?

574
00:27:35.095 --> 00:27:37.105
Yeah. So you need to do both anyway.

575
00:27:37.525 --> 00:27:39.145
We could spend the next two hour, oh,

576
00:27:39.345 --> 00:27:40.665
I could spend the next two hours on that,

577
00:27:40.685 --> 00:27:43.105
but we're not going to, so there's a, so there was a,

578
00:27:43.105 --> 00:27:44.705
there's a gap in the report that says,

579
00:27:44.775 --> 00:27:46.665
your execs want strategic alignment,

580
00:27:47.725 --> 00:27:49.505
and PMOs know it's important,

581
00:27:49.565 --> 00:27:51.945
but they're not ranking it as high as the execs.

582
00:27:52.005 --> 00:27:56.505
So action number one, I guess America is go have a chat

583
00:27:56.505 --> 00:27:59.145
with your leadership team about alignment,

584
00:27:59.445 --> 00:28:00.865
and do they feel comfortable,

585
00:28:00.885 --> 00:28:02.465
and are they getting the support they need?

586
00:28:02.685 --> 00:28:04.665
You think that's a what kind, what would you,

587
00:28:04.665 --> 00:28:06.505
what would you recommend as the first step to,

588
00:28:06.525 --> 00:28:07.545
to do something about that?

589
00:28:07.965 --> 00:28:12.385
Uh, definitely is, is about creating a proper culture

590
00:28:12.605 --> 00:28:13.745
for that, you know?

591
00:28:13.925 --> 00:28:18.425
Uh, and, and it, it's very connected with the, the feeling

592
00:28:18.495 --> 00:28:22.105
that, okay, we are here because of the company, not

593
00:28:22.105 --> 00:28:23.185
because ourselves.

594
00:28:23.445 --> 00:28:25.985
And we know that there are many companies that,

595
00:28:26.925 --> 00:28:28.865
as executives, they are like silos.

596
00:28:29.005 --> 00:28:30.825
You know, we, we saw that all the time.

597
00:28:31.205 --> 00:28:34.025
So they are doing their job, they are measured by that.

598
00:28:34.405 --> 00:28:36.745
If they're delivering what's supposed to be delivered,

599
00:28:37.055 --> 00:28:38.265
they will get their bonus.

600
00:28:38.685 --> 00:28:39.865
And they are happy with that.

601
00:28:40.045 --> 00:28:42.865
But maybe for the company, it's not the, the best way.

602
00:28:43.245 --> 00:28:46.825
And, and, and again, I will, I I, I'm working on that now,

603
00:28:46.825 --> 00:28:51.185
and I'm, I'm, I'm really, you know, uh, amazed about

604
00:28:51.255 --> 00:28:55.425
what we, we are, we are seeing, you know,

605
00:28:55.425 --> 00:28:58.825
when we go deeper on this discussion about this human side

606
00:28:59.045 --> 00:29:00.065
of all of this,

607
00:29:00.295 --> 00:29:01.665
because for example,

608
00:29:01.925 --> 00:29:06.785
if we ask any executive about should we prioritize our

609
00:29:06.785 --> 00:29:09.305
portfolio, they will say, yes, of course.

610
00:29:09.925 --> 00:29:13.745
Who will say no? All of them will say yes, right?

611
00:29:14.205 --> 00:29:17.465
If we say, should we measure the benefits

612
00:29:17.605 --> 00:29:19.225
of our project?

613
00:29:19.645 --> 00:29:22.345
All of them will say, of course. Yeah, of course.

614
00:29:23.085 --> 00:29:25.945
But the reality sometimes is a little different.

615
00:29:25.945 --> 00:29:29.185
Because, for example, if you don't measure

616
00:29:29.765 --> 00:29:33.545
the benefit realization, sometimes it's very comfortable

617
00:29:33.545 --> 00:29:35.865
because there is no accountability, right?

618
00:29:36.125 --> 00:29:38.305
So nobody will be challenged

619
00:29:38.305 --> 00:29:42.085
because it's not delivering what was promised when we say

620
00:29:42.085 --> 00:29:44.485
that, okay, we should prioritize,

621
00:29:44.545 --> 00:29:46.965
but you don't really move too much on that.

622
00:29:48.075 --> 00:29:49.805
It's very comfortable for some people,

623
00:29:49.805 --> 00:29:53.845
because if they have a, a loud voice, you know,

624
00:29:53.955 --> 00:29:58.445
like someone dominant in this as active group, for me,

625
00:29:58.445 --> 00:29:59.445
it's very comfortable.

626
00:29:59.665 --> 00:30:01.525
Why I want criteria. Now.

627
00:30:01.765 --> 00:30:04.245
I just, you know, raise my voice

628
00:30:04.865 --> 00:30:06.765
and my choice is selected.

629
00:30:07.145 --> 00:30:11.445
You know what I'm saying? And all of this is part of,

630
00:30:11.545 --> 00:30:13.165
of the life of companies.

631
00:30:13.165 --> 00:30:17.085
So how many of us already seem something like that?

632
00:30:17.825 --> 00:30:21.405
And sometimes, again, we just consider the technical side

633
00:30:21.705 --> 00:30:24.765
and just say, no, they, they, they know, they understand.

634
00:30:25.065 --> 00:30:26.085
But it doesn't happen.

635
00:30:26.465 --> 00:30:27.805
And why it doesn't happen,

636
00:30:27.805 --> 00:30:29.285
because it's not about the process.

637
00:30:29.755 --> 00:30:32.725
It's not about the platform, the software,

638
00:30:33.075 --> 00:30:35.045
it's about people, you know?

639
00:30:35.225 --> 00:30:37.205
And if we don't understand that

640
00:30:38.025 --> 00:30:42.245
and think how we can change this, not from the night to,

641
00:30:42.385 --> 00:30:47.165
to the, the morning, but over time, nothing will happen.

642
00:30:47.295 --> 00:30:49.005
There will be always obstacles

643
00:30:49.005 --> 00:30:53.205
because people try to keep their, their, their privileges.

644
00:30:53.225 --> 00:30:55.325
You know? Does it make sense for you?

645
00:30:55.705 --> 00:30:57.965
So, so, so, so I wanna build on some of that, right?

646
00:30:58.025 --> 00:30:59.925
So, so again, we, we, I could,

647
00:31:00.205 --> 00:31:02.325
I could spend the next two hours talking

648
00:31:02.325 --> 00:31:03.365
about prioritization.

649
00:31:03.455 --> 00:31:04.885
Susan, you and I need to talk

650
00:31:05.285 --> 00:31:07.885
'cause I disagree very strongly with your statement.

651
00:31:08.265 --> 00:31:09.965
Uh, I think if they are not connected,

652
00:31:09.965 --> 00:31:11.325
that's the root of all evil.

653
00:31:11.865 --> 00:31:13.325
But, um, uh,

654
00:31:13.325 --> 00:31:15.525
but I know your background, so I would love

655
00:31:15.525 --> 00:31:17.285
to hear your point of view one-on-one.

656
00:31:17.965 --> 00:31:19.125
'cause you've had some really interesting

657
00:31:19.125 --> 00:31:20.205
experiences over the years.

658
00:31:20.785 --> 00:31:23.445
Um, but the, so I wanna come back to

659
00:31:23.445 --> 00:31:24.565
what you said a minute ago, America.

660
00:31:24.805 --> 00:31:26.005
'cause you, you wove in, right?

661
00:31:26.005 --> 00:31:27.965
You threw in there a little bit of benefits management

662
00:31:27.965 --> 00:31:28.965
and a bit of this, that and the other.

663
00:31:28.985 --> 00:31:32.925
So next finding that I want to talk about in the report was

664
00:31:32.925 --> 00:31:34.845
around being value centric, right?

665
00:31:34.845 --> 00:31:37.485
That was one of the big themes. Yes. So tell me about that.

666
00:31:37.515 --> 00:31:39.125
What, what was, what was the big finding?

667
00:31:40.915 --> 00:31:42.925
Well, definitely, we,

668
00:31:42.985 --> 00:31:46.125
we see people talking about value now all the time, right?

669
00:31:46.345 --> 00:31:48.725
And for PMOs, it's not different.

670
00:31:49.265 --> 00:31:53.445
So we see many ideas, you know, coming up like

671
00:31:54.225 --> 00:31:55.485
VMO and things like that.

672
00:31:56.025 --> 00:32:00.085
Uh, this is something that sometimes I ask myself, you know,

673
00:32:00.085 --> 00:32:02.525
because I see people just saying, oh,

674
00:32:02.585 --> 00:32:05.485
we are in a transition from a PMO to A VMO.

675
00:32:05.745 --> 00:32:09.205
And I ask myself like, where, what

676
00:32:09.785 --> 00:32:11.405
you were doing the last year?

677
00:32:11.905 --> 00:32:14.485
You want concern about value, you know?

678
00:32:14.865 --> 00:32:16.445
So it's not changing the name

679
00:32:16.475 --> 00:32:18.205
that will make you generate value.

680
00:32:18.475 --> 00:32:21.205
It's about understanding your customers, understanding

681
00:32:21.275 --> 00:32:22.445
what they really need,

682
00:32:22.745 --> 00:32:25.605
and creating solutions for that outcomes that can be

683
00:32:26.115 --> 00:32:28.125
perceived as benefits for them.

684
00:32:28.585 --> 00:32:30.125
And then they will be successful.

685
00:32:30.225 --> 00:32:32.645
And by consequence, the company will be successful.

686
00:32:32.945 --> 00:32:35.365
So this is a, this is a, a simple process.

687
00:32:36.225 --> 00:32:39.245
So, uh, if you think, not simple

688
00:32:39.425 --> 00:32:41.125
to be implemented, but simple. Yeah.

689
00:32:41.225 --> 00:32:42.605
Intellectually simple. Yeah.

690
00:32:42.635 --> 00:32:46.565
Yeah, exactly. So, so, uh, uh, value.

691
00:32:46.865 --> 00:32:51.165
Now, it's a really, there is a hype, you know, it's a very

692
00:32:51.745 --> 00:32:55.845
trendy word, but, but understanding exactly what it is

693
00:32:56.185 --> 00:33:00.445
and how you can deal with that, especially

694
00:33:00.475 --> 00:33:03.445
with this subjective side of value.

695
00:33:03.755 --> 00:33:04.765
It's like a spectrum.

696
00:33:05.025 --> 00:33:08.485
You know, you have something very objective like, like ROI,

697
00:33:08.905 --> 00:33:13.485
but honestly, the life of many PMOs is not really close

698
00:33:13.625 --> 00:33:18.405
to this objective side, because we are supporting projects,

699
00:33:18.405 --> 00:33:20.005
and projects are not the business.

700
00:33:20.425 --> 00:33:23.125
And the PMO is supporting something that is not the,

701
00:33:23.125 --> 00:33:24.245
the, the, the, the business.

702
00:33:24.345 --> 00:33:27.685
So we are really far from the

703
00:33:28.195 --> 00:33:30.565
results on the business, you know, but it's okay.

704
00:33:30.865 --> 00:33:33.565
It doesn't mean that we are not important.

705
00:33:34.035 --> 00:33:36.445
It's just something that we need to consider

706
00:33:36.505 --> 00:33:40.525
and start to think how this subjective side

707
00:33:40.665 --> 00:33:44.125
of the PMO in terms of, of delivery, uh, uh, in terms

708
00:33:44.145 --> 00:33:47.245
of outcomes generated, how we can work with them,

709
00:33:47.545 --> 00:33:50.045
how we can understand them as something needed,

710
00:33:50.305 --> 00:33:52.845
and how we can measure and work with them.

711
00:33:52.845 --> 00:33:56.845
Because all of these two sides will compose

712
00:33:57.035 --> 00:34:01.165
what we need to make our PMO recognize it.

713
00:34:01.945 --> 00:34:04.845
You know? So, so, so, so given that the, the value is

714
00:34:04.845 --> 00:34:06.965
so important, and you've got, you've got these two sides,

715
00:34:07.465 --> 00:34:10.405
how do you, how do you define value?

716
00:34:10.665 --> 00:34:12.925
How do you, what, what does a value

717
00:34:13.885 --> 00:34:16.245
centric PMO look like?

718
00:34:17.845 --> 00:34:21.215
Perfect. So a value centric PMO,

719
00:34:22.235 --> 00:34:26.575
PMO is the one that not only delivery what is expected,

720
00:34:26.715 --> 00:34:29.935
but what you are delivering is perceived

721
00:34:29.955 --> 00:34:32.815
and recognized by those that are receiving that.

722
00:34:33.155 --> 00:34:34.335
That's basically the idea.

723
00:34:34.715 --> 00:34:36.335
So this is something interesting

724
00:34:36.335 --> 00:34:39.775
because for many years I've seen material about

725
00:34:40.065 --> 00:34:41.095
delivering value.

726
00:34:41.395 --> 00:34:45.375
And usually people stop when they say, okay, what I promised

727
00:34:45.375 --> 00:34:49.175
to you is that you would make better decisions.

728
00:34:49.435 --> 00:34:51.775
Now I'm providing you dashboards

729
00:34:51.995 --> 00:34:54.215
and you can make better decisions.

730
00:34:54.595 --> 00:34:59.095
And we suppose that our job is completed, but it's not

731
00:34:59.405 --> 00:35:02.615
because it's just a kind of potential

732
00:35:03.445 --> 00:35:04.455
that you are creating

733
00:35:04.925 --> 00:35:08.535
that decisions can be made in a better way.

734
00:35:08.995 --> 00:35:13.255
But there is a, a, a, a, a jump between the outcome

735
00:35:13.255 --> 00:35:17.175
that you are generating and how it's perceived as a benefit.

736
00:35:18.055 --> 00:35:21.295
Actually, this perception happens in the mind of the people

737
00:35:21.295 --> 00:35:22.295
that you are serving to.

738
00:35:22.525 --> 00:35:24.615
Sometimes things are there, but

739
00:35:24.615 --> 00:35:28.255
because of many different reasons, a lack of competence,

740
00:35:28.335 --> 00:35:31.895
a lack of maturity, some specific personal interests,

741
00:35:32.085 --> 00:35:35.655
they are not really using those outcomes in the way that

742
00:35:36.355 --> 00:35:39.905
it was supposed they were supposed to, to, to, to be used.

743
00:35:40.085 --> 00:35:42.905
You know? And this way people start to say, oh,

744
00:35:43.015 --> 00:35:45.305
what you are doing is not important for us.

745
00:35:45.765 --> 00:35:47.265
And that's the real deal.

746
00:35:47.265 --> 00:35:49.185
Because by the end of the day,

747
00:35:49.415 --> 00:35:51.305
what will make your PMO thrive?

748
00:35:51.735 --> 00:35:54.825
It's not what you are doing and what you are delivering,

749
00:35:54.845 --> 00:35:59.705
but it's how those people that you are serving to understand

750
00:36:00.405 --> 00:36:02.625
as valuable what you are trying to do.

751
00:36:03.405 --> 00:36:06.145
You know? So this concept are important.

752
00:36:06.645 --> 00:36:08.265
And, and, and, and that ties back

753
00:36:08.265 --> 00:36:10.025
to the first conversation about strategic alignment.

754
00:36:10.185 --> 00:36:12.185
'cause the strategic alignment step is

755
00:36:12.185 --> 00:36:15.105
where you defining what's valuable, right?

756
00:36:15.105 --> 00:36:16.825
What is the value that we want to get back?

757
00:36:16.825 --> 00:36:18.425
What are the benefits that we want to get back?

758
00:36:18.425 --> 00:36:20.625
You know, the, the absolutely that str that

759
00:36:21.145 --> 00:36:24.025
strategic alignment step in prioritization is really the

760
00:36:24.025 --> 00:36:25.345
first step in benefits management.

761
00:36:25.415 --> 00:36:27.305
It's not, it's not about delivering the product,

762
00:36:27.305 --> 00:36:29.185
it's actually about setting yourself up to deliver,

763
00:36:29.205 --> 00:36:31.465
to maximize the ROI, the,

764
00:36:31.465 --> 00:36:34.105
the business impact from the, from the business anyway.

765
00:36:34.265 --> 00:36:35.585
Absolutely. Absolutely. So, so, um,

766
00:36:35.935 --> 00:36:37.545
just a very quick interesting thing.

767
00:36:37.605 --> 00:36:39.385
Um, I, I, I, a little while ago,

768
00:36:39.425 --> 00:36:41.825
I stumbled across an interesting piece of research

769
00:36:41.845 --> 00:36:44.425
by a guy called Offer something or other.

770
00:36:44.785 --> 00:36:45.865
Hmm. I've forgotten his surname.

771
00:36:45.865 --> 00:36:47.385
Anyway, it'll come to me in a minute, I hope.

772
00:36:47.765 --> 00:36:52.185
Um, uh, so he's a, he's a research fellow at,

773
00:36:52.805 --> 00:36:57.385
uh, the University of Australia, university of, uh, one, one

774
00:36:57.385 --> 00:36:58.665
of the big universities in Australia.

775
00:36:59.645 --> 00:37:02.745
And he did some really cool research looking at, um,

776
00:37:02.745 --> 00:37:03.785
hundreds of projects.

777
00:37:03.805 --> 00:37:06.025
And he looked at, um,

778
00:37:07.205 --> 00:37:11.865
how much project delivery teams focus on templates process,

779
00:37:12.165 --> 00:37:14.465
you know, the project management, the, the, the, you know,

780
00:37:14.465 --> 00:37:17.225
on time, on budget, all the traditional stuff

781
00:37:17.225 --> 00:37:21.705
that the project community love Versus focusing on

782
00:37:22.995 --> 00:37:24.725
value, right?

783
00:37:24.825 --> 00:37:26.845
So, so, you know, obsessing,

784
00:37:26.985 --> 00:37:29.605
our processes are always a built around value.

785
00:37:29.625 --> 00:37:31.485
So our governance and reporting is around value.

786
00:37:31.585 --> 00:37:33.165
Our decision making is around value.

787
00:37:33.195 --> 00:37:34.845
It's not around project, it's around value.

788
00:37:35.785 --> 00:37:38.525
And what he, what he showed is that, um,

789
00:37:40.665 --> 00:37:43.735
you need a certain level of project process,

790
00:37:44.675 --> 00:37:47.745
but you don't need a lot, you just need a certain level.

791
00:37:48.045 --> 00:37:49.705
And it's context dependent.

792
00:37:49.705 --> 00:37:50.705
If you're doing a mega project,

793
00:37:50.765 --> 00:37:53.825
you need more than if you're doing small IT projects, right?

794
00:37:53.845 --> 00:37:56.385
So, so the, the threshold is some, but there's a threshold,

795
00:37:56.845 --> 00:37:59.065
and anything beyond that threshold is a waste of time.

796
00:37:59.135 --> 00:38:00.665
It's adding no value at all, right?

797
00:38:00.725 --> 00:38:03.625
So all that bureaucracy is adding, is adding no value,

798
00:38:05.165 --> 00:38:08.105
but there was a very strong correlation with

799
00:38:09.185 --> 00:38:11.585
focusing on value in the project delivery, right?

800
00:38:11.605 --> 00:38:14.745
So, so actually achieving value was very strongly correlated

801
00:38:14.775 --> 00:38:16.185
with focusing on value.

802
00:38:16.765 --> 00:38:19.705
Wow. Research proves something that's really obvious, right?

803
00:38:20.525 --> 00:38:23.425
But it's really important to say this, right? Yeah.

804
00:38:23.425 --> 00:38:26.745
As a community, we need to stop focusing thinking that our,

805
00:38:26.925 --> 00:38:28.785
our job is to put templates

806
00:38:28.785 --> 00:38:30.185
and processes and tools in place.

807
00:38:30.735 --> 00:38:33.545
Yeah, yeah. And to focus on that value.

808
00:38:33.975 --> 00:38:35.405
Exactly. And that's a good point

809
00:38:35.405 --> 00:38:38.405
because many people understand that focusing on value

810
00:38:38.985 --> 00:38:42.565
is doing what you are doing in the best way possible.

811
00:38:43.185 --> 00:38:46.725
And they believe that excellence, technical excellence,

812
00:38:47.195 --> 00:38:49.485
automatically generate value.

813
00:38:50.105 --> 00:38:51.805
But it's not true. No, no.

814
00:38:51.855 --> 00:38:54.845
Especially because excellence, depending on

815
00:38:54.845 --> 00:38:57.005
what you are doing, you can

816
00:38:58.315 --> 00:39:00.065
waste a lot of money with that.

817
00:39:00.395 --> 00:39:02.625
Right? So, Peter Drucker said

818
00:39:02.625 --> 00:39:05.865
that nothing is more useless than doing the,

819
00:39:06.915 --> 00:39:08.335
the be in the best way possible.

820
00:39:08.335 --> 00:39:11.175
Something that is useless, right? That's right.

821
00:39:11.235 --> 00:39:13.095
So that's exactly the, the, the idea.

822
00:39:13.435 --> 00:39:17.415
So this is a matter, not all of strategic alignment,

823
00:39:17.595 --> 00:39:20.445
but a, a matter of customer alignment.

824
00:39:20.625 --> 00:39:23.805
You know, what they really need as results and,

825
00:39:23.825 --> 00:39:27.445
and this, their needs, it's not something that you agree

826
00:39:27.445 --> 00:39:29.365
or not, it's not only a fact.

827
00:39:29.705 --> 00:39:33.095
If you want to be perceived, if you want

828
00:39:33.095 --> 00:39:36.855
to make them recognize the value that you are generating,

829
00:39:37.275 --> 00:39:38.975
you should focus on their needs.

830
00:39:39.035 --> 00:39:40.095
And you can say America,

831
00:39:40.235 --> 00:39:43.455
but sometimes they, they, they, they, they, they,

832
00:39:44.005 --> 00:39:45.695
they don't know that they don't know, you know?

833
00:39:45.695 --> 00:39:46.775
They don't know that they don't know.

834
00:39:46.915 --> 00:39:50.055
So they, they are not really concerned about

835
00:39:50.285 --> 00:39:51.295
some important things.

836
00:39:51.515 --> 00:39:55.735
Yes, of course you need to, to, to, to seed

837
00:39:56.075 --> 00:39:59.535
for the future, but you cannot forget that you need

838
00:39:59.535 --> 00:40:03.015
to generate perception of value in the short term,

839
00:40:03.405 --> 00:40:07.735
otherwise, you will not survive enough time

840
00:40:07.875 --> 00:40:11.015
to see the results that what you are trying to do, right?

841
00:40:11.475 --> 00:40:14.415
So it, it, it's like if you are, if you are sick,

842
00:40:14.925 --> 00:40:18.735
it's not only about the antibiotics that will generate,

843
00:40:19.765 --> 00:40:22.095
that will, that will heal you in 10 days.

844
00:40:22.525 --> 00:40:24.455
It's about some painkillers

845
00:40:24.455 --> 00:40:26.895
that will make you feel better now,

846
00:40:26.895 --> 00:40:28.855
because that's what you are feeling.

847
00:40:28.855 --> 00:40:31.015
That is important. I'm bad, you know, I'm,

848
00:40:31.155 --> 00:40:33.855
I'm in a bad situation, I'm sick, I want to feel better.

849
00:40:34.395 --> 00:40:37.575
So a balance between doing what I have to do

850
00:40:38.315 --> 00:40:41.655
and doing what I need to do for the future,

851
00:40:41.655 --> 00:40:45.215
because we are evolving, is something that makes sense as a

852
00:40:45.735 --> 00:40:46.975
strategy for the PMO.

853
00:40:48.135 --> 00:40:50.115
Now, before I go onto the next question, right?

854
00:40:50.135 --> 00:40:52.315
So this is a really good place to say.

855
00:40:52.615 --> 00:40:54.675
Um, so America

856
00:40:54.735 --> 00:40:56.955
and I are gonna be in San Diego in a couple of weeks,

857
00:40:57.015 --> 00:40:58.195
two, three weeks, something like that.

858
00:40:58.195 --> 00:41:00.155
24th, 25th of March. Yeah.

859
00:41:00.155 --> 00:41:01.235
24th and 25th.

860
00:41:01.735 --> 00:41:04.115
And Rebecca's gonna be there. Rebecca's on here as well.

861
00:41:04.115 --> 00:41:05.355
Yeah. Rebecca also,

862
00:41:05.855 --> 00:41:09.595
Um, so we're, we're, we're gonna be at the, uh, the, the

863
00:41:10.215 --> 00:41:12.395
PMO Unconference, which is,

864
00:41:12.965 --> 00:41:14.755
which is a really interesting event.

865
00:41:14.755 --> 00:41:16.675
Do you wanna, do you wanna just tell us a little bit,

866
00:41:16.695 --> 00:41:18.115
bit about the unconference

867
00:41:18.115 --> 00:41:20.275
and what makes it, what makes it different?

868
00:41:20.275 --> 00:41:21.275
Because a lot of these,

869
00:41:21.295 --> 00:41:24.035
the topics we're talking about today, uh, things

870
00:41:24.035 --> 00:41:25.555
that are on the agenda at the uncon,

871
00:41:26.005 --> 00:41:28.635
Definitely this, this event, uh, actually it's,

872
00:41:28.705 --> 00:41:29.755
it's the third edition.

873
00:41:29.785 --> 00:41:33.885
This is now the, the PMI global event for PMOs.

874
00:41:34.065 --> 00:41:38.005
So PMI in the past has had the, the PMO symposium.

875
00:41:38.305 --> 00:41:40.565
Now PMO and Kong replaced that.

876
00:41:40.985 --> 00:41:43.005
So it's the global event for PMOs.

877
00:41:43.225 --> 00:41:47.405
Uh, we had it in Paris, in Istanbul, now in San Diego.

878
00:41:48.105 --> 00:41:51.845
Uh, and, and what is really cool, this event,

879
00:41:51.915 --> 00:41:56.805
that it's not a traditional event where you just sit there

880
00:41:57.065 --> 00:42:01.125
and start to, you know, uh, listen to, to the people.

881
00:42:01.765 --> 00:42:04.965
Actually, you are part of that, right?

882
00:42:05.105 --> 00:42:07.805
As, as I, I like to, to say that the,

883
00:42:07.945 --> 00:42:10.485
the stars are in the audience, right?

884
00:42:10.595 --> 00:42:15.205
Because they, uh, instead of traditional speakers

885
00:42:15.345 --> 00:42:18.765
and, you know, uh, uh, uh, traditional sessions

886
00:42:18.765 --> 00:42:22.645
where you are there only to, to listen what they are saying.

887
00:42:23.065 --> 00:42:25.045
Uh, all, all the people involved,

888
00:42:25.065 --> 00:42:26.965
and you are one of them stewards.

889
00:42:27.035 --> 00:42:29.965
Rebecca, also, you, you are facilitators,

890
00:42:30.465 --> 00:42:32.125
so you could be speakers,

891
00:42:32.145 --> 00:42:35.765
but you are there as peers, uh, con, uh, uh, uh,

892
00:42:35.765 --> 00:42:37.165
leading a conversation,

893
00:42:37.665 --> 00:42:40.725
and everyone in the room participate on that.

894
00:42:40.945 --> 00:42:45.115
So the, the, the, the, the sessions, instead of 40 minutes,

895
00:42:45.695 --> 00:42:48.475
it takes three hours, you know, and we can go deep.

896
00:42:48.695 --> 00:42:50.555
People can bring their experience,

897
00:42:50.555 --> 00:42:53.435
people can bring their challenges, their difficulties,

898
00:42:53.655 --> 00:42:55.915
and we can work together, we can learn together.

899
00:42:56.385 --> 00:42:59.595
Sometimes we have insights. We can live with a solution.

900
00:42:59.855 --> 00:43:03.075
If not, we can hug each other and cry together, right?

901
00:43:03.145 --> 00:43:05.795
It's part of, of the, the, the moment, right?

902
00:43:05.935 --> 00:43:10.915
But, but it's a, a, a very strong way of learning, you know,

903
00:43:11.055 --> 00:43:12.595
in a, in a collaborative way.

904
00:43:12.595 --> 00:43:15.435
That's how I started PMO GA years ago.

905
00:43:15.695 --> 00:43:17.395
And it's something that I truly believe.

906
00:43:17.615 --> 00:43:20.195
So this, this conference is very, very important for me.

907
00:43:20.415 --> 00:43:23.675
And we have a fantastic conference now in San Diego,

908
00:43:23.735 --> 00:43:24.995
if you have a chance to come.

909
00:43:25.595 --> 00:43:27.955
I, I'm sure that nobody will regret that

910
00:43:27.955 --> 00:43:29.755
because it's, it's very, very special.

911
00:43:30.375 --> 00:43:31.915
And, and the first year, so I've been lucky

912
00:43:31.915 --> 00:43:34.595
because I, I've facilitated every one of them so far.

913
00:43:35.215 --> 00:43:36.595
And the first year,

914
00:43:37.295 --> 00:43:38.915
nobody really knew what to expect, right?

915
00:43:38.915 --> 00:43:40.395
It was all a bit, all a bit crazy.

916
00:43:40.495 --> 00:43:42.395
And, and so we got into the room

917
00:43:42.395 --> 00:43:46.155
and the session was on, you know, uh, delivering to the

918
00:43:46.675 --> 00:43:48.075
customer the services, what services

919
00:43:48.175 --> 00:43:49.315
do the customers care about?

920
00:43:49.975 --> 00:43:52.635
And what we realized very early in the workshop was

921
00:43:52.635 --> 00:43:54.235
that actually there were, there were three

922
00:43:54.235 --> 00:43:57.795
or four groups who had different ideas

923
00:43:57.795 --> 00:43:58.875
that they wanted to explore.

924
00:43:59.615 --> 00:44:01.355
And so the power of the uncon is

925
00:44:01.355 --> 00:44:03.275
that we then just split the room into three groups.

926
00:44:03.785 --> 00:44:06.675
Exactly. Right? And we had three facilitators in the room,

927
00:44:07.375 --> 00:44:09.595
and we went off in these three different directions,

928
00:44:09.595 --> 00:44:11.555
and at the end, we all came back and said, what do we learn?

929
00:44:12.445 --> 00:44:14.535
Exactly. So It's, it's that ability to,

930
00:44:14.675 --> 00:44:19.095
to really engage with not just the thought leaders, right?

931
00:44:19.495 --> 00:44:20.975
'cause at the conference, we're not thought

932
00:44:20.975 --> 00:44:22.135
leaders, we're facilitators.

933
00:44:22.755 --> 00:44:25.095
And the real insight comes from the shared stories

934
00:44:25.805 --> 00:44:27.215
from your peers, right?

935
00:44:27.215 --> 00:44:29.295
That that's where the big insight comes from.

936
00:44:29.525 --> 00:44:32.125
Yeah. That's how we create new things, you know?

937
00:44:32.305 --> 00:44:34.325
And this year there will be something really cool,

938
00:44:34.325 --> 00:44:37.485
because I will record the audio

939
00:44:37.985 --> 00:44:40.205
of all the, the tracks.

940
00:44:40.205 --> 00:44:41.605
We have seven in parallel,

941
00:44:42.105 --> 00:44:46.085
and we will use AI to generate reports

942
00:44:46.975 --> 00:44:50.965
based on 12 hours of discussion in each track.

943
00:44:51.465 --> 00:44:55.365
And these reports will be made available for the community,

944
00:44:55.785 --> 00:44:57.685
uh, a few days after the event.

945
00:44:58.225 --> 00:45:01.845
So that's it. We are contributing to the development

946
00:45:01.865 --> 00:45:04.165
of our PMO landscape. Yeah.

947
00:45:04.165 --> 00:45:07.405
Fantastic. So if you're available 23rd, uh, sorry, 24th,

948
00:45:07.405 --> 00:45:11.165
25th of March, uh, come to San Diego, it'll be great.

949
00:45:11.585 --> 00:45:15.925
Um, I have learned that, um,

950
00:45:17.165 --> 00:45:18.285
I, I've, so I've heard

951
00:45:18.285 --> 00:45:19.725
that there's a really good zoo in San Diego.

952
00:45:20.545 --> 00:45:21.645
Yes. The biggest one.

953
00:45:21.755 --> 00:45:25.645
Yeah. Yeah. Well, and so I was speaking with one

954
00:45:25.645 --> 00:45:28.285
of the facilit, I won't tell you who it is, uh,

955
00:45:28.385 --> 00:45:30.685
but one of the facilitators, I said, oh, let's go

956
00:45:30.685 --> 00:45:31.925
to the zoo on the Monday, right?

957
00:45:32.025 --> 00:45:33.565
And he, he's like, no, I'm not going to the zoo

958
00:45:33.725 --> 00:45:35.645
'cause I'm allergic to elephants.

959
00:45:36.305 --> 00:45:37.965
Really? Oh my gosh.

960
00:45:38.825 --> 00:45:40.805
So after the session, I'll tell you who that was, America.

961
00:45:40.945 --> 00:45:42.205
But yeah, imagine that.

962
00:45:42.205 --> 00:45:43.405
How do you, how do you discover

963
00:45:43.405 --> 00:45:44.845
that you're allergic to elephants?

964
00:45:44.945 --> 00:45:47.565
That's a good question. You know, I, I know

965
00:45:47.565 --> 00:45:49.045
that I'm allergic to cats,

966
00:45:49.225 --> 00:45:52.205
but I have six cats, you know, so I,

967
00:45:52.365 --> 00:45:55.245
I understand why I am allergic to them, but

968
00:45:56.965 --> 00:45:57.965
Excellent. All right. Let's get back

969
00:45:57.965 --> 00:45:59.805
on track. Come on. Behave. Behave.

970
00:46:00.225 --> 00:46:03.365
All right. Uh, so the next topic that, that came up

971
00:46:03.365 --> 00:46:06.685
as being really important was, was kind of resource

972
00:46:06.705 --> 00:46:07.845
and capacity planning.

973
00:46:08.465 --> 00:46:11.365
So what, what were the, some of the issues around, uh,

974
00:46:11.725 --> 00:46:13.845
resources and, and capacity planning that,

975
00:46:14.435 --> 00:46:15.925
that you surfaced up?

976
00:46:15.925 --> 00:46:18.965
And, and do you know what, this is one that frustrates me.

977
00:46:19.185 --> 00:46:20.405
Why is this still an issue?

978
00:46:24.045 --> 00:46:26.015
Yeah, that's a a very good point.

979
00:46:28.135 --> 00:46:30.655
Actually, this report, oh, I'm sorry.

980
00:46:30.685 --> 00:46:33.855
This is because of my cats, you know, actually

981
00:46:34.445 --> 00:46:37.415
shouldn't be too, I'm spending two weeks at home

982
00:46:37.795 --> 00:46:39.015
and that's what happened.

983
00:46:39.015 --> 00:46:41.335
You know, when I'm traveling all the time, I'm okay,

984
00:46:41.715 --> 00:46:43.895
but two weeks at home, it's too much.

985
00:46:44.675 --> 00:46:48.015
So the, the point is, resource management is something

986
00:46:48.015 --> 00:46:52.255
that I believe it deserves a, a specific research on that,

987
00:46:52.315 --> 00:46:56.255
you know, because today, come on, we have more

988
00:46:56.255 --> 00:46:57.815
and more alternatives.

989
00:46:57.875 --> 00:47:02.135
You know, we have fantastic software, uh, AI is coming

990
00:47:02.715 --> 00:47:04.855
to help us with that.

991
00:47:04.955 --> 00:47:07.655
But it's, it's still a problem, still an issue.

992
00:47:08.215 --> 00:47:09.695
Companies are struggling with that.

993
00:47:09.955 --> 00:47:13.405
And again, it's not only the process,

994
00:47:13.655 --> 00:47:15.365
there is something else, you know,

995
00:47:15.365 --> 00:47:20.005
and maybe this silos structure, you know, can influence that

996
00:47:20.125 --> 00:47:24.695
because nobody want to maybe share key resources.

997
00:47:24.755 --> 00:47:29.485
You know, it looks like we have some, uh, uh,

998
00:47:29.675 --> 00:47:34.485
some, uh, I could say, uh, uh, uh, some points

999
00:47:34.595 --> 00:47:37.925
that look to be the, the roots of, of these problems,

1000
00:47:37.945 --> 00:47:40.325
you know, the cause, the root cause.

1001
00:47:40.505 --> 00:47:44.845
Uh, but, but anyway, uh, we need to, to go deeper on that,

1002
00:47:44.865 --> 00:47:48.285
you know, and understand looking to the forest, you know,

1003
00:47:48.285 --> 00:47:52.005
understand exactly how, how it works, you know, and, and,

1004
00:47:52.025 --> 00:47:54.365
and, and have something reliable. You know, so

1005
00:47:54.365 --> 00:47:56.685
I'll tell you, I, you, you said you used a phrase a second

1006
00:47:56.785 --> 00:47:58.845
ago, which I'm not sure I agree with.

1007
00:47:59.545 --> 00:48:01.205
Um, I don't think this is a

1008
00:48:01.325 --> 00:48:02.485
resource management problem at all.

1009
00:48:03.205 --> 00:48:05.405
I think it's a RESO resource capacity

1010
00:48:05.405 --> 00:48:06.725
management problem, which is

1011
00:48:06.725 --> 00:48:07.725
Different uhhuh. Yes, yes,

1012
00:48:07.725 --> 00:48:08.845
yes. Exactly. Yeah.

1013
00:48:09.025 --> 00:48:10.285
It, it, you know, that's different.

1014
00:48:10.285 --> 00:48:11.685
Those two things are quite different.

1015
00:48:12.045 --> 00:48:14.285
Resource management is what task is Johnny

1016
00:48:14.285 --> 00:48:15.525
doing next week, right?

1017
00:48:15.595 --> 00:48:17.765
Yeah, yeah. It's true. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

1018
00:48:18.205 --> 00:48:20.805
Capacity management is, do we have the capacity overall

1019
00:48:20.805 --> 00:48:22.805
to deliver this portfolio work? And

1020
00:48:22.805 --> 00:48:24.845
When we are selecting our projects,

1021
00:48:25.345 --> 00:48:26.445
we are considering that.

1022
00:48:26.505 --> 00:48:27.965
And that's the big point, you know,

1023
00:48:27.965 --> 00:48:30.605
because actually managing that is much more

1024
00:48:30.605 --> 00:48:32.925
during the execution of the portfolio.

1025
00:48:33.025 --> 00:48:37.005
But, but when we are designed the portfolio, uh,

1026
00:48:37.115 --> 00:48:39.005
it's about capacity, as you said.

1027
00:48:39.345 --> 00:48:40.925
And it's very, very common

1028
00:48:40.925 --> 00:48:44.445
that projects are selected sometimes based it on criteria,

1029
00:48:44.865 --> 00:48:47.645
but not based it on, on constraints, you know?

1030
00:48:47.945 --> 00:48:51.525
And this is like, you are wasting our time, you know?

1031
00:48:51.745 --> 00:48:53.245
So definitely it's,

1032
00:48:53.585 --> 00:48:56.405
We would, we were, we were talking just, uh, a month

1033
00:48:56.405 --> 00:49:00.845
or two ago, I was talking to the strategic, I have

1034
00:49:00.845 --> 00:49:01.885
to be very careful what I say.

1035
00:49:01.885 --> 00:49:04.205
So it was one of the top five global banks,

1036
00:49:05.025 --> 00:49:08.085
and it was the C-suite level of planning, right?

1037
00:49:08.105 --> 00:49:12.285
So these guys are allocating billions of dollars of resource

1038
00:49:12.985 --> 00:49:14.645
across a global bank.

1039
00:49:15.785 --> 00:49:17.965
And it was really fascinating.

1040
00:49:18.445 --> 00:49:22.245
'cause my question to the person running the process was, so

1041
00:49:22.795 --> 00:49:24.005
what, at what point do you,

1042
00:49:24.065 --> 00:49:25.645
do you overlay resources on this?

1043
00:49:27.255 --> 00:49:32.185
The answer was, we don't. Right?

1044
00:49:32.205 --> 00:49:33.865
So, so the problem, so, so the problem,

1045
00:49:33.945 --> 00:49:36.025
I think the root cause is twofold.

1046
00:49:36.025 --> 00:49:37.865
Yeah. The first one is that, um,

1047
00:49:38.245 --> 00:49:41.825
the process doesn't connect resources to, so,

1048
00:49:41.885 --> 00:49:44.185
so when people talk about the strategy execution gap,

1049
00:49:44.185 --> 00:49:45.305
that's where we started today.

1050
00:49:45.895 --> 00:49:48.305
This is the gap. This is the gap.

1051
00:49:49.295 --> 00:49:51.105
Very true. Very true.

1052
00:49:51.105 --> 00:49:53.305
So it's, it's aligning the resources

1053
00:49:53.485 --> 00:49:55.385
to your strategic goals, right?

1054
00:49:55.445 --> 00:49:56.665
To the projects and initiatives

1055
00:49:56.665 --> 00:49:59.025
that support your strategic goals. That's the gap.

1056
00:49:59.855 --> 00:50:02.305
Yeah. This things should be much more connected than

1057
00:50:02.495 --> 00:50:04.025
what we have today, no doubt.

1058
00:50:04.375 --> 00:50:06.625
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, so what kind

1059
00:50:06.625 --> 00:50:08.905
of things did you hear in, in the research then, America?

1060
00:50:09.015 --> 00:50:11.545
What, you know, what was kind coming outta that in terms of

1061
00:50:11.565 --> 00:50:13.905
how people are tackling it, addressing it?

1062
00:50:13.935 --> 00:50:17.465
What advice can you give to people who are wrestling

1063
00:50:17.465 --> 00:50:18.545
with this issue now, apart

1064
00:50:18.545 --> 00:50:19.785
from to buy our software, of course.

1065
00:50:19.945 --> 00:50:24.425
'cause it does that for you, but, um, you know, what?

1066
00:50:24.575 --> 00:50:26.625
More generic, because not everybody's gonna go

1067
00:50:26.625 --> 00:50:27.765
and buy, buy our software tomorrow.

1068
00:50:27.905 --> 00:50:31.245
So what could be people, what, what can PML leaders be doing

1069
00:50:31.985 --> 00:50:33.765
to help bridge that gap today?

1070
00:50:34.235 --> 00:50:38.285
Yeah, I, I see that today, uh, resource

1071
00:50:38.805 --> 00:50:42.205
capacity is treated as something more tactical.

1072
00:50:42.505 --> 00:50:46.485
And actually it should be something at the strategic level.

1073
00:50:46.865 --> 00:50:51.525
So understanding your capacity, what is possible, you know,

1074
00:50:51.525 --> 00:50:55.205
and how, how you can explore and expand this capacity,

1075
00:50:55.205 --> 00:50:57.965
because there are many, many different possibilities.

1076
00:50:58.145 --> 00:50:59.325
You can outsource.

1077
00:50:59.625 --> 00:51:02.405
You can, you know, but, but you should be prepared for that.

1078
00:51:02.905 --> 00:51:04.725
So if you already structured,

1079
00:51:04.825 --> 00:51:07.645
and the PMO can help with that, by the way, for many years

1080
00:51:07.645 --> 00:51:12.355
before PMO J that's what part, uh, it was part, not

1081
00:51:12.455 --> 00:51:15.915
of my job, but part of something that my company, uh,

1082
00:51:15.975 --> 00:51:18.555
did in the past, you know, consulting, but also outsourcing.

1083
00:51:18.815 --> 00:51:20.915
And I remember that we had one big,

1084
00:51:21.135 --> 00:51:23.715
big insurance company in, in Latin America,

1085
00:51:23.865 --> 00:51:28.155
that all the time that they need new project managers

1086
00:51:28.295 --> 00:51:29.875
for some specific projects.

1087
00:51:30.185 --> 00:51:33.435
They just call us and said, Hey, I need 10 people.

1088
00:51:33.555 --> 00:51:35.035
I need 20 people, 50 people.

1089
00:51:35.295 --> 00:51:37.155
And we just provide them to that.

1090
00:51:37.255 --> 00:51:40.395
So they could, couldn't just, uh, uh, uh,

1091
00:51:41.155 --> 00:51:43.075
increase their official headcount,

1092
00:51:43.375 --> 00:51:45.275
but this way they had the, the, the,

1093
00:51:45.275 --> 00:51:46.715
the flexibility that they needed.

1094
00:51:47.215 --> 00:51:50.915
The point is, it's not something that you should discuss

1095
00:51:51.165 --> 00:51:53.835
after defining your portfolio.

1096
00:51:54.415 --> 00:51:58.115
You should discuss before that at the strategic level level.

1097
00:51:58.415 --> 00:52:00.755
And then when you go to the tactical level,

1098
00:52:01.145 --> 00:52:04.715
it's just a matter of putting inaction, you know,

1099
00:52:04.725 --> 00:52:07.995
these alternatives that you already planted them.

1100
00:52:08.295 --> 00:52:11.315
You know, I'm not trying to make a miracle, you know,

1101
00:52:11.385 --> 00:52:14.635
it's just a matter of putting inaction, things

1102
00:52:14.635 --> 00:52:15.795
that we already planted,

1103
00:52:16.135 --> 00:52:20.435
how we will use our alternatives to make that happen.

1104
00:52:20.935 --> 00:52:23.555
But it should be discussed at a strategic level,

1105
00:52:23.555 --> 00:52:25.115
understanding our constraints.

1106
00:52:25.415 --> 00:52:26.415
No doubt about that.

1107
00:52:27.785 --> 00:52:28.915
Fantastic. So, and,

1108
00:52:28.915 --> 00:52:32.155
and I know that Rebecca's gonna be sitting there vibrating

1109
00:52:32.265 --> 00:52:33.595
with frustration at this point

1110
00:52:33.595 --> 00:52:36.235
because, uh, you know, Rebecca does a lot

1111
00:52:36.235 --> 00:52:40.755
of work in the C-suite, mostly in government, um,

1112
00:52:41.215 --> 00:52:43.675
uh, government and nonprofits, but mostly in government.

1113
00:52:44.375 --> 00:52:47.715
And the constant frustration is h

1114
00:52:48.215 --> 00:52:51.155
how do you help the leadership team?

1115
00:52:51.155 --> 00:52:52.795
Oh, there you go. She's got a comment in there as well.

1116
00:52:53.135 --> 00:52:55.155
How do we, how do we get the leadership

1117
00:52:55.155 --> 00:52:56.275
team to take this seriously?

1118
00:52:56.455 --> 00:52:57.835
How do we take, get them to think

1119
00:52:58.145 --> 00:52:59.995
strategically about resources?

1120
00:53:00.155 --> 00:53:01.675
'cause it's not, it's not a question

1121
00:53:01.675 --> 00:53:04.275
of which project's the best, it's the question.

1122
00:53:04.295 --> 00:53:06.035
The real question is what combination

1123
00:53:06.035 --> 00:53:08.395
of projects delivers the most value

1124
00:53:08.965 --> 00:53:10.595
given our resource constraints?

1125
00:53:11.145 --> 00:53:14.435
Yeah. And that's not always as simple as doing the projects

1126
00:53:14.985 --> 00:53:16.315
that deliver the most value.

1127
00:53:16.625 --> 00:53:18.515
Exactly. You know, Because, you know, one

1128
00:53:18.515 --> 00:53:20.675
of the high value ones could be a complete resource hog

1129
00:53:21.295 --> 00:53:22.955
and kill everything else, right?

1130
00:53:23.775 --> 00:53:26.725
So, um, so, so it's a really, really key thing.

1131
00:53:27.105 --> 00:53:28.125
Now we're out of time,

1132
00:53:28.225 --> 00:53:29.925
but, um, what, so

1133
00:53:29.925 --> 00:53:32.885
what I'm gonna do really quickly is I'm gonna just say

1134
00:53:32.885 --> 00:53:34.125
to people, thank you for coming.

1135
00:53:34.305 --> 00:53:35.925
If you can stay, please do so.

1136
00:53:36.165 --> 00:53:37.605
'cause I, I've got one more question

1137
00:53:37.605 --> 00:53:38.645
for America before we go.

1138
00:53:38.645 --> 00:53:40.765
One more topic to cover that I'd like to cover.

1139
00:53:41.385 --> 00:53:44.805
Um, but if you, if you can't stay, um,

1140
00:53:45.185 --> 00:53:49.085
and you are struggling with some of the, the, the, you know,

1141
00:53:49.085 --> 00:53:50.325
you recognize some of the issues

1142
00:53:50.355 --> 00:53:51.765
that we've talked about today,

1143
00:53:52.585 --> 00:53:53.645
but you're struggling

1144
00:53:53.645 --> 00:53:57.005
to get your leadership engaged in the conversation,

1145
00:53:57.665 --> 00:53:59.605
if I can suggest go, go ahead

1146
00:53:59.605 --> 00:54:02.525
and head to our website here, transparent choice.com,

1147
00:54:02.985 --> 00:54:05.525
and go get a portfolio fixed briefing, right?

1148
00:54:05.525 --> 00:54:07.845
So this is a little, little workshop that we put together,

1149
00:54:07.885 --> 00:54:10.925
a little free workshop that we do, which helps

1150
00:54:11.635 --> 00:54:14.925
pull together, it's a little bit of a diagnostic, right?

1151
00:54:15.135 --> 00:54:18.045
Where are you today? And helps you pull together a bit of a,

1152
00:54:18.605 --> 00:54:22.805
a case for change so that you're, you can, one way

1153
00:54:22.825 --> 00:54:26.125
to get your executives engaged in this whole process is

1154
00:54:26.745 --> 00:54:28.325
to help 'em understand what's in it for them.

1155
00:54:28.325 --> 00:54:29.525
Because at the end of the day, they're

1156
00:54:29.525 --> 00:54:30.605
not gonna do it because you want to do it.

1157
00:54:30.605 --> 00:54:31.725
They're gonna do it because there's something

1158
00:54:31.725 --> 00:54:32.765
in it for them.

1159
00:54:33.585 --> 00:54:36.325
So this, this little workshop on our, our front page here,

1160
00:54:36.325 --> 00:54:37.925
you can go and just click on there.

1161
00:54:37.935 --> 00:54:40.765
It'll take you through to, to the calendar, um,

1162
00:54:40.945 --> 00:54:43.085
and we can, we can dive in, uh,

1163
00:54:43.185 --> 00:54:45.845
and help build that case for change. Yeah.

1164
00:54:46.025 --> 00:54:48.765
So, and, and definitely, uh, Stuart, this is something

1165
00:54:48.765 --> 00:54:50.725
that I truly recommend

1166
00:54:50.725 --> 00:54:54.745
because sometime people miss this point,

1167
00:54:54.745 --> 00:54:58.105
because of course you have many clients, you know, and, and,

1168
00:54:58.285 --> 00:55:01.425
and each one is a different scenario, a different situation.

1169
00:55:01.725 --> 00:55:04.985
So instead of looking for benchmarking, you know,

1170
00:55:05.015 --> 00:55:08.785
with each one, actually, when we talk with someone like you,

1171
00:55:09.205 --> 00:55:11.785
you have a very interesting perspective of

1172
00:55:12.215 --> 00:55:13.945
what many companies are doing

1173
00:55:13.945 --> 00:55:15.985
because they are your, your clients

1174
00:55:16.205 --> 00:55:18.145
or at least potential ones.

1175
00:55:18.525 --> 00:55:21.825
So this way you can make these connections, you know,

1176
00:55:21.845 --> 00:55:24.345
and say, okay, you don't need to copy anyone.

1177
00:55:24.405 --> 00:55:27.105
You can take this from this one, that one, that one.

1178
00:55:27.255 --> 00:55:29.665
That is exactly what we also defend when

1179
00:55:29.665 --> 00:55:30.745
we are creating PMOs.

1180
00:55:30.765 --> 00:55:33.385
You don't need to copy anyone, you don't need to, to,

1181
00:55:33.385 --> 00:55:34.745
to follow any model.

1182
00:55:34.925 --> 00:55:36.705
You have to create your solution.

1183
00:55:37.005 --> 00:55:39.865
And this perspective of about

1184
00:55:39.935 --> 00:55:41.865
what the market is doing is something

1185
00:55:41.865 --> 00:55:43.505
that can help a lot. Definitely.

1186
00:55:44.285 --> 00:55:47.385
And, and coming back to the Uncon, right?

1187
00:55:47.485 --> 00:55:49.545
One of the great things about the uncon is that you get

1188
00:55:49.545 --> 00:55:52.985
to hear other people's stories, other people's frustrations.

1189
00:55:53.925 --> 00:55:56.465
You get to hear that you are not alone, right?

1190
00:55:56.465 --> 00:55:58.185
You're not the only one wrestling with these issues.

1191
00:55:58.225 --> 00:56:00.625
I understand. Yeah. Sometimes we can cry together,

1192
00:56:01.045 --> 00:56:03.945
but most of the times we can find alternatives

1193
00:56:03.965 --> 00:56:05.745
and learn together, you know?

1194
00:56:06.945 --> 00:56:08.985
Absolutely. So shocks just asked the question about

1195
00:56:08.985 --> 00:56:11.145
how we can encourage 'em to look at the portfolio

1196
00:56:11.245 --> 00:56:14.065
and discuss probability of success and so on.

1197
00:56:14.445 --> 00:56:16.225
Um, which feels like we need another

1198
00:56:16.225 --> 00:56:17.425
webinar to cover that one.

1199
00:56:18.085 --> 00:56:19.945
Um, but before, so

1200
00:56:19.945 --> 00:56:22.745
before we go there, there was one other little piece that,

1201
00:56:22.855 --> 00:56:24.725
that I found really interesting

1202
00:56:24.725 --> 00:56:28.685
and was highlighted in the report in several places, was we,

1203
00:56:28.705 --> 00:56:30.445
and we touched on it earlier, was this idea

1204
00:56:30.445 --> 00:56:32.255
of customers, right?

1205
00:56:32.675 --> 00:56:35.855
So we said that, that, um, the, the,

1206
00:56:36.515 --> 00:56:38.295
the most important customers, the leadership team,

1207
00:56:38.755 --> 00:56:41.895
the executive team, uh, whatever it is, you know,

1208
00:56:41.895 --> 00:56:42.975
however you structure yourselves,

1209
00:56:43.595 --> 00:56:44.975
but they're not the only customers.

1210
00:56:45.955 --> 00:56:48.215
And there was a number about, you know, the, the,

1211
00:56:48.215 --> 00:56:52.135
the best PMOs have four groups of customers or more, right?

1212
00:56:52.135 --> 00:56:53.535
So talk, talk a little bit about that.

1213
00:56:53.535 --> 00:56:55.215
What does that, what does that actually mean?

1214
00:56:55.275 --> 00:56:58.135
How can I, how can I identify those customers?

1215
00:56:58.135 --> 00:56:59.135
How can I serve them?

1216
00:57:00.815 --> 00:57:03.095
Absolutely. FF first of all, there is something

1217
00:57:03.095 --> 00:57:07.135
that co it, it comes first that is understand

1218
00:57:08.225 --> 00:57:09.955
your mission as a PMO.

1219
00:57:10.065 --> 00:57:11.195
Because saying

1220
00:57:11.195 --> 00:57:13.835
that executive team will be an important customer

1221
00:57:13.895 --> 00:57:15.995
for every PMO is not, is not true.

1222
00:57:16.525 --> 00:57:19.355
There will be PMOs that they will serve a,

1223
00:57:19.595 --> 00:57:23.795
a specific business unity, a specific department, an IT PMO.

1224
00:57:24.145 --> 00:57:25.555
It's not about the executive team.

1225
00:57:25.695 --> 00:57:28.195
I'm sorry, it's about your CIO, right?

1226
00:57:28.615 --> 00:57:31.675
So, so of course you will behave in a different way.

1227
00:57:31.735 --> 00:57:34.155
The chances that you'll be very strategic,

1228
00:57:34.295 --> 00:57:36.555
we will be, you know, different.

1229
00:57:36.665 --> 00:57:39.595
Because now you are just looking to

1230
00:57:39.595 --> 00:57:41.795
that specific area and it's okay.

1231
00:57:41.925 --> 00:57:43.555
Right? There will be many companies

1232
00:57:43.555 --> 00:57:44.715
that they have combinations.

1233
00:57:44.745 --> 00:57:48.395
They have in some project oriented areas,

1234
00:57:48.585 --> 00:57:50.075
they have their all PMOs,

1235
00:57:50.095 --> 00:57:53.235
and maybe we have one that is a enterprise, one

1236
00:57:53.375 --> 00:57:56.795
for those projects that they are, they, they, they, they,

1237
00:57:56.795 --> 00:58:00.835
they are, uh, uh, uh, uh, they, they are cross, you know,

1238
00:58:00.935 --> 00:58:01.995
uh, projects.

1239
00:58:02.455 --> 00:58:03.835
So, so it's okay.

1240
00:58:03.835 --> 00:58:05.595
There are many ways of organizing that,

1241
00:58:06.015 --> 00:58:09.155
but there will be many PMOs that definitely

1242
00:58:09.735 --> 00:58:12.155
the executive level, the, the,

1243
00:58:12.215 --> 00:58:14.795
the senior leadership is a fantastic

1244
00:58:14.975 --> 00:58:17.795
and very important, uh, uh, customer.

1245
00:58:18.175 --> 00:58:20.875
Uh, and we have to give attention, proper attention to them.

1246
00:58:20.905 --> 00:58:22.155
They are not the only ones

1247
00:58:22.265 --> 00:58:26.345
because definitely other groups

1248
00:58:26.405 --> 00:58:29.465
of customers should be serving in a, in some way,

1249
00:58:29.725 --> 00:58:33.305
and you cannot just underestimate their impact

1250
00:58:33.485 --> 00:58:35.385
or their power in this process

1251
00:58:35.415 --> 00:58:40.145
because, you know, people, uh, they, they usually try

1252
00:58:40.145 --> 00:58:41.705
to say good things about you,

1253
00:58:41.805 --> 00:58:44.065
but when they want to say bad things,

1254
00:58:44.095 --> 00:58:46.745
they will spend much more energy on that, right?

1255
00:58:46.965 --> 00:58:49.425
So they can sabotage what we're trying to do.

1256
00:58:49.765 --> 00:58:51.625
So we need to have a balance, right?

1257
00:58:51.925 --> 00:58:55.185
But, but in general, in gen, uh, in general, the way

1258
00:58:55.185 --> 00:58:58.305
that I define customers are all those people

1259
00:58:58.375 --> 00:58:59.985
that you are serving to

1260
00:59:00.085 --> 00:59:01.865
or better, all those people

1261
00:59:01.935 --> 00:59:04.225
that will judge what you are doing.

1262
00:59:05.145 --> 00:59:08.925
You know, if there is anyone that is really judging

1263
00:59:08.955 --> 00:59:11.965
what you are doing, you know, saying, no, it's good,

1264
00:59:11.995 --> 00:59:14.725
it's bad, it's something useful.

1265
00:59:14.875 --> 00:59:18.125
It's not probably this people

1266
00:59:18.265 --> 00:59:22.685
or this, uh, person will be one of your customers

1267
00:59:22.705 --> 00:59:27.125
and you should at least understand how, uh, important

1268
00:59:27.955 --> 00:59:29.125
they are for you.

1269
00:59:30.565 --> 00:59:33.185
So are there any patterns generally, right?

1270
00:59:33.225 --> 00:59:35.025
I know every organization is different, right?

1271
00:59:35.485 --> 00:59:37.265
But, you know, senior leadership team,

1272
00:59:37.405 --> 00:59:39.745
that's one set of obvious customers. Yeah,

1273
00:59:39.865 --> 00:59:40.905
There are four, four of them.

1274
00:59:41.285 --> 00:59:44.065
Senior leadership project managers,

1275
00:59:44.065 --> 00:59:47.945
because the most usual model is that they are in the

1276
00:59:48.465 --> 00:59:51.385
business areas, in the departments, not at the PMO.

1277
00:59:52.005 --> 00:59:54.785
We have exceptions, but according to research,

1278
00:59:54.855 --> 00:59:56.185
it's like 20%.

1279
00:59:56.575 --> 00:59:59.065
Sometimes I think today, uh,

1280
00:59:59.195 --> 01:00:00.825
maybe it's a little more frequent,

1281
01:00:00.825 --> 01:00:03.945
because sometimes PMOs, they, for, for those projects

1282
01:00:03.945 --> 01:00:07.585
that are really big ones, like transformation projects,

1283
01:00:07.695 --> 01:00:09.465
sometimes they say, okay,

1284
01:00:09.595 --> 01:00:12.345
these people will be full-time dedicated to the project.

1285
01:00:12.485 --> 01:00:16.705
So I will, I will, uh, uh, have specific project

1286
01:00:17.045 --> 01:00:18.745
or program managers for them,

1287
01:00:18.885 --> 01:00:20.425
and they will report to the PMO.

1288
01:00:20.525 --> 01:00:22.225
So they are part of the PMO,

1289
01:00:22.565 --> 01:00:27.345
but the usual way is they are spread in the organization.

1290
01:00:28.165 --> 01:00:32.105
And managing projects is much more a function than a role,

1291
01:00:32.215 --> 01:00:34.945
than, than a position, you know, a title.

1292
01:00:35.445 --> 01:00:38.905
Uh, and so project managers, executive team

1293
01:00:39.005 --> 01:00:41.825
or senior leadership as you want, uh,

1294
01:00:43.025 --> 01:00:47.505
functional managers in general, it, marketing, hr,

1295
01:00:47.775 --> 01:00:49.505
finance and so on.

1296
01:00:50.405 --> 01:00:53.625
And team members, project team members, you know,

1297
01:00:53.805 --> 01:00:56.105
so definitely these are the most common.

1298
01:00:56.125 --> 01:01:00.745
And I can tell you that based on how people use our,

1299
01:01:01.045 --> 01:01:04.585
our apps, you know, the, the, the apps that give life

1300
01:01:04.965 --> 01:01:06.945
to the PMI PMO practice Guide.

1301
01:01:07.005 --> 01:01:10.185
By the way, let me share this with you here.

1302
01:01:10.605 --> 01:01:14.745
If you go there, you find the two first apps, they are

1303
01:01:14.745 --> 01:01:18.145
for free that we created to support some steps

1304
01:01:18.485 --> 01:01:20.505
of the PMO value ring framework.

1305
01:01:20.505 --> 01:01:23.705
That is the heart of the PMI PMO XI guide.

1306
01:01:25.405 --> 01:01:26.455
Yeah. Yeah. We've not,

1307
01:01:26.455 --> 01:01:28.415
we've not even touched on that today. Yeah.

1308
01:01:28.645 --> 01:01:29.855
Yeah. It's, it's really cool.

1309
01:01:30.365 --> 01:01:33.655
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, so if you wanna go deeper into that,

1310
01:01:33.955 --> 01:01:37.455
um, I would, uh, strongly recommend to book you tickets out

1311
01:01:37.455 --> 01:01:39.615
to San Diego, and then we can go out,

1312
01:01:40.085 --> 01:01:42.335
have a quiet drink somewhere down by the beach

1313
01:01:42.395 --> 01:01:44.495
and dig into this stuff in more detail. Oh

1314
01:01:44.495 --> 01:01:46.255
Yeah, that's definitely, and we can go

1315
01:01:46.255 --> 01:01:48.175
to the zoo without the elephant, the zoo.

1316
01:01:48.645 --> 01:01:51.935
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

1317
01:01:52.155 --> 01:01:55.855
So, so America, I, I, I, I want to thank you, uh, for,

1318
01:01:56.075 --> 01:01:57.335
for carving out time.

1319
01:01:57.795 --> 01:01:59.655
Um, really appreciate that.

1320
01:02:00.315 --> 01:02:02.335
Um, it's, it's been a, a fun session.

1321
01:02:02.395 --> 01:02:03.575
It always is with you, my friend.

1322
01:02:03.995 --> 01:02:05.015
Uh, it's been a fun session

1323
01:02:05.475 --> 01:02:08.215
and, uh, thank you to the audience, to the, to the audience

1324
01:02:08.215 --> 01:02:11.455
as well, to the attendees for being such a chatty group.

1325
01:02:11.875 --> 01:02:15.375
Um, it always makes it more interesting, more fun, uh, to,

1326
01:02:15.475 --> 01:02:18.095
to see, uh, other people's opinions as well.