WEBVTT

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So my name's Stuart Easton.

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I'm the CEO and one of the founders of Transparent

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Choice.

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So we're a software company if you don't know us.

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We do portfolio management software, so prioritization, capacity planning, all that

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kind of stuff. So this whole thing about people

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is really central to that, and I've got some stats that I

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can throw around later on if it's interesting.

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But the core for today is actually my wonderful

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guests, Heba El Shaheedi and Dawn Mahan.

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So we'll kick off. Dawn, do you want to just introduce yourself

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and then I'll tell people why I've invited you two to this session.

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Sure. Hi, Stuart and Heba. So happy to be here with the both of you

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today. I am Dawn Mahan. I am sitting in the Florida

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Keys and I am the founder and CEO

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of PMO Training and also Project Guru Academy.

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So some of you may be coming to this from those

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channels as well. And also, I'm an

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author, which I'm sure we're going to talk about more today.

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We've got these two here. Recognize those ones, I guess.

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Yes. There they are.

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There they are.

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Yeah.

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Fantastic. Okay. We'll probably touch on some of those.

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It's the people one. Mm-hmm.

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Your background blurry thing is blurring out the book, by the way, Dawn.

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Just so you know.

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I'll fix that. Yeah.

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Fantastic. And then we've got Heba El Shaheedi.

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Heba,

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you want to introduce yourself?

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Hello. My name is Heba El Shaheedi.

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I'm a PMO expert, PMO leader and book author.

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I'm also volunteering with PMI as PMOGA MENA Hub lead.

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We have exciting things happening right now.

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And I have the book, "Elements of Leadership," that is

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being translated to Arabic as we are speaking.

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Soon to be launched, Inshallah.

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Yeah.

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Fantastic. That's great. Now, Heba's being terribly, terribly modest.

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She's the only person on the planet to have won the PMO Global Alliance's

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PMO Leader of the Year

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twice.

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So, absolute superstar. And it's

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great that we're talking. So why have I invited

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Heba and Dawn? We also invited Ahmed, Ahmed Romih.

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He unfortunately just couple of days ago had a medical

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emergency and can't make it today, so he does send his apologies.

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You'll just have to do with us three, I'm afraid, today.

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But I suspect it'll be fine. I think it'll be fine.

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So,

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actually, the first time that I met Heba

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was in, it was a PMO summit I think, or

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PMO conference in Riyadh.

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Yeah.

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PMO Summit.

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Absolutely. And

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Heba was on stage on a panel, and there were

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three big blokes, big men on stage.

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And it was about people and there was Heba, right?

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Heba's not big. She's-

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Yeah

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... so these great big guys and they asked a question

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about

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projects and performance and all this kind of stuff and

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the guys gave these really textbook answers

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and I was like, "Yeah, it's okay."

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And then Heba just started talking about people

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and the importance of leadership,

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and I thought, "I need to know this person." At that time, I had no idea

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who Heba was.

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Mm-hmm.

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I had no idea what your background was, but I just fell in love.

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So Heba is now my Dubai sister.

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Yeah.

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And

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author of this book. We'll be talking about those in a little while, I dare say.

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But we're going to start off and

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Dawn is here. I'm going to start with Dawn.

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The first question's going to go to Dawn.

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Dawn's here because about a year and a half ago, two years ago, Dawn, you

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published the ...

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There's the pile of gum. Here it is.

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This one.

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There we go.

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Yeah.

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"Meet the Players in Project Land."

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There it is.

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There it is indeed. Snap.

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Yeah.

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And so this is a fun

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but interesting book,

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talking about people in projects, right?

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Mm-hmm.

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They are the players in project land and I don't know if you can see on there, but

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they're all different animals.

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Mm-hmm.

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So we'll come to the book shortly, but the premise of this webinar is

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that people are important in delivering projects.

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And we all know what project failure rates look like.

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So really,

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people? Is it really people? I thought it was all about

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templates, tools, process.

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So Dawn, you've got a nice little story to illustrate why people

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are so important. Shall we start there, I think?

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Yeah, sure.

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One of the things that I had to do in writing the book is make my case,

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and in making the case I did a lot of research because my

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feeling was that after over 20 years

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of working in what I like to call project land, which is the word I use

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for the world of projects, and the world of projects is

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different than the day job. It's like a different world

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with different roles, rules and expectations and so forth.

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And so when I was making the case,

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it just so happened that inc.com said

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that the book, "How Big Things Get Done," was

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their favorite business book of the year.

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Oh, really?

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And in ... Yeah.

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Bent's book.

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Yep.

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Yeah.

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Yep, absolutely. It was January 2024 and I was actually finalizing

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the manuscript then, and inc.com said, "Hey,

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this is our business book of the year." And they had

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analyzed 16,000 projects in that book, that's a lot,

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and said that only 48% achieve the cost goal,

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and only 8.5% end on budget, end on time.

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So that's 16 out of 200 projectsAnd

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on budget and on time. But what if you're doing the wrong project?

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It doesn't really account for that.

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And what about delivering the promised benefits, which is what this is

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all about? So they said only half a percent,

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half of 1%, end on budget on time and deliver the

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promised benefits. That's one out of 200

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projects end on budget on time and deliver promised benefits.

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Well, that's terrible. But the question is, why?

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And my theory was,

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well, because people are not set up for success.

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After being in project land for decades, this is what I've observed.

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Well, it turns out through some of the research

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that there was another study done where of

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70 professional engineers,

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and in that they found top reasons for

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project failure, and the top three

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were the project was not adequately defined at the beginning.

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Who defines the project in the beginning? People.

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The project manager was incompetent.

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Well, the project manager is a person, but the project manager

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being assigned

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is the leadership's job, so assign the right project

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manager who is competent for that project.

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That's a people problem. And number three was there was a lack of

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clearly defined project goals and objectives. And who does that?

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The people.

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So if those are some of the top three, and I've seen them many

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times, and I'd be curious as to what our audience has

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experienced, if you've seen that in your

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worlds. I've seen them many times, and I thought, "Yep,

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that's right." And then throughout the project,

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is the sponsor engaged, or do they wave their

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hand and say, "Go do it, and let me know when it's done"?

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That's a people problem. And there were a number of items like that

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noted in a lot of studies that I went through for the

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book.

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Yeah. No, that's great. And the way I think about it is that

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delivering projects...

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Stop. We're not going to talk about delivering projects.

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We're going to talk about delivering benefits, right?

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Because at the end of the day, I don't care if... Ducks.

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We need ducks.

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We always need ducks.

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It won't surprise anyone-

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We're getting old

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... that I have within arm's reach ducks.

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Uh-huh.

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So,

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we've got ducks, right? So nobody cares about the ducks. We just want the egg.

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We don't care about the project. We want the value. We want the benefit, right?

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So it's not about actually delivering projects, it's about delivering those

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benefits. And that's a system,

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right? It's a system of figuring out

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what our goals are, how to align our projects, how to execute those

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projects, how to make sure that we're planning for the

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benefit. We're doing the change management.

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We're actually realizing and measuring and being accountable for the benefit,

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right? That's a system.

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But the system is run by

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people.

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People.

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People.

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Well or not well.

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Well or not well. And those people can be led well or not led well.

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They can be motivated or demotivated. They can be productive or not productive.

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They can even be harmful, right? They can get

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in there and start ripping things apart.

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So,

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Heba, before we sort of dive into

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specifics,

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what I'd love to do is actually just take a few minutes to talk about

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PMOs. Most of our audience is sort of PMO type peeps.

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So just super quickly, a quick heart or a thumbs up or something if you're

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in the PMO, just so we have a feeling for who's

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actually PMO-tastic here. Yeah, we've got a

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few. Quite a few. There we go. Fantastic. Thank you.

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So Heba, why don't we start off actually with a little bit about

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leadership

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in the PMO?

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So I'm not going to guide you. I'm going to let you go where you want to go on this

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one, because this is

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exactly what this book is about.

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One of the things, Heba is so unbelievably talented

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it's not true.

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So Heba is also an artist.

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I'm an artist.

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And so it's no surprise that her book is absolutely

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gorgeous. The way it feels, just it's absolutely gorgeous.

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So Heba.

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Thank you, Stuart. Okay, so I agree, of course,

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with Don that at the end of the day, it's not the system or

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methodologies or whatever, it's

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who's playing those in the background, and there

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comes here the players, as Don said.

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And in my book, "Elements of Leadership," I do focus a

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bit about PMOs, but it's like a minor

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theme in the book, because I thought about it in terms of

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leadership, something more generic.

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Any leader could get into it and then apply

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what's there.

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The human aspects of leadership

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are the most important ones, and the reason why I think it

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was important for me to

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present it in the nice way that you're talking about,

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Stuart. It was important to also link it to the nature in

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a way that people would remember.

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Because nature is intuitive.

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These kind of human skills, human leadership

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skills, and attributes, they should be intuitive.

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They should be natural to all of us.

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It should come from the inspiration of nature,

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and currently they are not. So we just said that the leaders,

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they could be harmful or toxic, and they could be also

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empowering and

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engaging with their teams. They could select the right people, not

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because of personal gain, because of the actual benefit that they want

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to give to the project.So it's a

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mix of these human elements that

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really at this point of time, we need them to be emphasized more.

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We need to

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shed light more on this kind of aspect.

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Mm.

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So I put them under the four

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nature elements, water, fire, wind,

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and earth,

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so people can remember it very quickly and get to it.

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And I believe also, Dawn, you have created your design with

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00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:42.120
the players so people can remember it and kind of

258
00:12:42.900 --> 00:12:46.600
have their own emotional attachment to what's in the book,

259
00:12:46.700 --> 00:12:46.940
right?

260
00:12:47.380 --> 00:12:51.240
Yeah. I love that you did that with your book, and that you talk

261
00:12:51.320 --> 00:12:52.560
about it in this way. That-

262
00:12:52.569 --> 00:12:54.080
Mine is also origami, by the way.

263
00:12:54.140 --> 00:12:55.730
Yes. We have so much in-

264
00:12:55.749 --> 00:12:56.740
Yeah. We were just saying that in the chat.

265
00:12:56.889 --> 00:12:56.889
Yeah

266
00:12:56.889 --> 00:12:57.900
... in common with this.

267
00:12:58.380 --> 00:12:58.389
Yeah.

268
00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:02.360
So we both chose some origami, and we both chose nature, just

269
00:13:02.420 --> 00:13:03.400
in different ways. And

270
00:13:04.280 --> 00:13:07.620
the reason was the same, that we were both going for-

271
00:13:07.940 --> 00:13:07.950
Yeah

272
00:13:07.960 --> 00:13:11.800
... trying to make it easy for people to relate to and understand and apply.

273
00:13:12.700 --> 00:13:12.840
Yeah.

274
00:13:12.880 --> 00:13:13.080
Yeah.

275
00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:16.460
And origami by itself, it's like a small project, so

276
00:13:16.560 --> 00:13:20.540
that was my inspiration to it. You have instructions

277
00:13:20.580 --> 00:13:22.000
to do something. You have a plan.

278
00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:25.830
And then you can also get your creativity going and

279
00:13:25.880 --> 00:13:29.580
then create your own project in the way that you want.

280
00:13:30.140 --> 00:13:33.240
Yeah, I agree. There are a lot of parallels there to what we need to do-

281
00:13:33.290 --> 00:13:33.290
Yeah

282
00:13:33.290 --> 00:13:34.740
... in project land. Mm-hmm.

283
00:13:34.860 --> 00:13:34.940
Yeah.

284
00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:35.280
Love it.

285
00:13:36.620 --> 00:13:39.420
So, Heba, just staying with you for a second, right?

286
00:13:39.740 --> 00:13:43.660
So I remember a conversation with you, I'm not going to

287
00:13:43.680 --> 00:13:46.700
divulge the details because it wasn't a public conversation, but a conversation

288
00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:47.860
where we were talking about,

289
00:13:49.920 --> 00:13:50.560
is this

290
00:13:51.940 --> 00:13:55.660
concern with people just because we want to be nice and cuddly and warm and

291
00:13:55.760 --> 00:13:59.240
friendly, or is it actually about performance as well?

292
00:14:00.340 --> 00:14:01.840
Or is it only about performance?

293
00:14:02.110 --> 00:14:02.110
Yeah.

294
00:14:02.120 --> 00:14:04.920
What do you think? What's your thoughts on that?

295
00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:10.200
I talk about this in the kindness chapter in the book.

296
00:14:10.560 --> 00:14:13.960
So I think this was the conversation when we talked about kindness.

297
00:14:14.660 --> 00:14:18.629
Kindness doesn't mean that you can be a people pleaser and

298
00:14:18.680 --> 00:14:22.560
give everyone what they want. That's not kindness. Kindness is to be fair.

299
00:14:23.100 --> 00:14:27.020
It's to think about the ultimate goal, but at the same time, pay

300
00:14:27.040 --> 00:14:30.620
attention to people's emotions and how you're dealing with them.

301
00:14:31.400 --> 00:14:35.380
And you can be kind, and then at the same time you say no

302
00:14:35.860 --> 00:14:39.720
because it doesn't fit your values or it doesn't fit the

303
00:14:39.760 --> 00:14:43.680
project or whatever, but you can be kind in the way that you deliver it.

304
00:14:44.540 --> 00:14:47.260
So it's not about being

305
00:14:48.060 --> 00:14:51.060
gentle or just going with the breeze because

306
00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:53.720
you're kind of forced to. No, it's

307
00:14:54.580 --> 00:14:58.540
being authentic. Kindness is very much linked to being authentic and-

308
00:14:59.000 --> 00:14:59.010
Yeah

309
00:14:59.010 --> 00:14:59.960
... seeing the right

310
00:15:01.040 --> 00:15:03.360
elements, how you can put them in the right place, and

311
00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:07.500
that would work out to the benefit of everyone, actually.

312
00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:12.110
Yeah. Agreed. And it's one of

313
00:15:12.140 --> 00:15:14.460
those things about being human, right?

314
00:15:14.920 --> 00:15:15.080
Yeah.

315
00:15:15.100 --> 00:15:19.060
We're social animals, so we like to be social,

316
00:15:19.120 --> 00:15:22.060
and we like to be liked and all of those things.

317
00:15:22.140 --> 00:15:23.440
But at the end of the day, as a leader,

318
00:15:24.300 --> 00:15:27.900
you also are responsible and accountable for delivering

319
00:15:28.380 --> 00:15:32.300
results, for to a degree, the welfare of your people.

320
00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:36.180
If they're going to go and stick their hand in a blender, that's down to them,

321
00:15:36.260 --> 00:15:36.600
but

322
00:15:37.780 --> 00:15:40.010
in work, the welfare-

323
00:15:40.170 --> 00:15:40.170
Yeah

324
00:15:40.170 --> 00:15:40.840
... of your people as well.

325
00:15:42.260 --> 00:15:45.050
And part of that actually is helping them achieve,

326
00:15:45.920 --> 00:15:46.840
right? Most of us-

327
00:15:46.849 --> 00:15:46.849
Yeah

328
00:15:46.849 --> 00:15:49.220
... don't turn up to work just because we want a paycheck.

329
00:15:49.860 --> 00:15:53.120
We turn up to work because we want to do a good job. We want to contribute.

330
00:15:54.040 --> 00:15:54.080
Yeah.

331
00:15:54.110 --> 00:15:57.069
And so, being that leader helps. A good leader will help-

332
00:15:57.120 --> 00:15:57.500
Exactly

333
00:15:57.520 --> 00:15:58.010
... the team do that.

334
00:15:58.020 --> 00:16:01.540
And especially, Stuart, in a city like Dubai, where

335
00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:05.920
Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum is always challenging us to be number one

336
00:16:05.960 --> 00:16:09.240
in everything. So you would know that these

337
00:16:09.340 --> 00:16:12.700
performances and the projects are really crucial and critical,

338
00:16:13.320 --> 00:16:17.180
but how is the team still being happy and

339
00:16:17.220 --> 00:16:20.980
well-maintained and have the right capabilities, and at the same time, under

340
00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:21.360
pressure,

341
00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:25.199
to deliver these performances? There is a balance.

342
00:16:25.340 --> 00:16:27.639
There's a balance that has to be achieved by the leader.

343
00:16:28.329 --> 00:16:32.180
It all comes down onto how you can manage and lead that

344
00:16:32.220 --> 00:16:32.440
team.

345
00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:38.100
Brilliant. So, Dawn, and I'm actually

346
00:16:38.140 --> 00:16:40.980
just going to come to you, Dawn, but there's a question which you talked about a

347
00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:44.580
couple of studies. There's a question about where were those studies.

348
00:16:44.680 --> 00:16:47.680
I think one of them was from Bent's book-

349
00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:48.440
Right

350
00:16:48.500 --> 00:16:49.440
... "How to Get Things Get Done."

351
00:16:49.700 --> 00:16:50.140
That's right.

352
00:16:50.600 --> 00:16:54.240
So I put the title and everything earlier in the chat, if you want to look at that.

353
00:16:54.920 --> 00:16:55.910
But before we go there,

354
00:16:56.720 --> 00:16:56.920
Dawn,

355
00:16:58.200 --> 00:17:01.380
so we've talked a little bit about leadership. We've just touched on it.

356
00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:03.580
I dare say we'll come back to that topic later on, but-

357
00:17:03.780 --> 00:17:03.850
Mm-hmm

358
00:17:04.901 --> 00:17:08.780
... okay, so as PMO leaders, as project leaders, right, we need to be leaders.

359
00:17:09.840 --> 00:17:13.401
Who are we leading? Who are the stakeholders around the

360
00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:15.240
project? Who are these animals in the

361
00:17:16.520 --> 00:17:16.780
book?

362
00:17:18.220 --> 00:17:18.520
So I-

363
00:17:18.590 --> 00:17:20.700
Just give us a quick overview of who the players are.

364
00:17:21.141 --> 00:17:23.300
Yeah. So if you're the PMO leader,

365
00:17:24.220 --> 00:17:28.040
then I believe, and having been one , one of

366
00:17:28.100 --> 00:17:31.690
the jobs is to see who all the

367
00:17:31.740 --> 00:17:35.620
creatures are in your version of project land and determine what they

368
00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:36.020
need.

369
00:17:36.940 --> 00:17:40.890
And some of the feedback that I've gotten on the book is that

370
00:17:40.920 --> 00:17:44.740
the animals do help to clarify the types of

371
00:17:44.780 --> 00:17:48.680
creatures we all have faced. Those of us

372
00:17:48.700 --> 00:17:51.820
who've been around project land for a long time, we've all met these creatures.

373
00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:53.960
And so, for instance,

374
00:17:55.340 --> 00:17:58.840
if you're talking about a project sponsor, that's the

375
00:17:58.900 --> 00:18:02.640
lion. And when I teach what I call

376
00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:06.470
affectionately sponsor school, the first thing I do is I put this

377
00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:10.352
beautiful photo of a lionOn the

378
00:18:10.432 --> 00:18:13.552
screen. And I ask them to shout out

379
00:18:14.272 --> 00:18:18.092
words that the first word they think of when they see

380
00:18:18.132 --> 00:18:20.472
this gorgeous picture of this lion.

381
00:18:20.502 --> 00:18:24.172
And so you'll see powerful, courage, scary,

382
00:18:24.492 --> 00:18:28.172
and then I weave this story from these words,

383
00:18:28.712 --> 00:18:32.472
and then I tell them, "You are the lion, so you are

384
00:18:32.572 --> 00:18:36.452
viewed as powerful, that you should be courageous, and,

385
00:18:36.532 --> 00:18:38.692
yeah, some people are going to think you're scary."

386
00:18:40.292 --> 00:18:44.252
And then invariably, somebody had a word that they think that they say, "I wish I

387
00:18:44.272 --> 00:18:46.682
wouldn't have picked that word now that I know what you did with it." But

388
00:18:47.932 --> 00:18:51.532
the point is that each, and you said it earlier, Stuart,

389
00:18:52.252 --> 00:18:55.892
each role and each human can be helpful

390
00:18:56.312 --> 00:19:00.192
or hurtful to project land. That also includes

391
00:19:00.232 --> 00:19:04.172
the executive. So if you're a PMO leader, and even if you're not, if you're a

392
00:19:04.192 --> 00:19:06.312
project manager and you have a steering team,

393
00:19:07.372 --> 00:19:10.612
who's on that steering team? A lot of times it's

394
00:19:10.652 --> 00:19:14.112
executives. Well, are they going to help you or hurt you?

395
00:19:14.892 --> 00:19:17.272
And are they going to work as a steering team?

396
00:19:17.332 --> 00:19:20.632
And so I make a case in my book, "Meet the Players in Project Land,"

397
00:19:20.832 --> 00:19:24.762
about how we need to have, and we need to use the

398
00:19:24.832 --> 00:19:28.692
words steering team rather than committee to emphasize that

399
00:19:28.812 --> 00:19:29.072
we

400
00:19:30.492 --> 00:19:33.552
need to work as a team because committees

401
00:19:34.492 --> 00:19:37.372
tend to just have a lot of meetings and not get anywhere.

402
00:19:37.432 --> 00:19:39.092
That's what the suggestion is by the word.

403
00:19:39.972 --> 00:19:43.512
And so those animal avatars are the

404
00:19:43.612 --> 00:19:47.052
eagle, the whale, and the owl.

405
00:19:47.442 --> 00:19:49.052
So just to get you thinking.

406
00:19:50.072 --> 00:19:50.212
Yeah.

407
00:19:50.812 --> 00:19:54.292
Excellent. So let's stay with that idea of a team, right?

408
00:19:54.412 --> 00:19:56.852
Because one of the challenges in projects is,

409
00:19:58.012 --> 00:20:01.932
if you go way back to a

410
00:20:02.032 --> 00:20:05.872
decade or two, to the way that PMI talks about projects, it was

411
00:20:05.952 --> 00:20:08.532
all about you've got these cross-functional

412
00:20:10.652 --> 00:20:12.192
initiatives that need to get done.

413
00:20:13.162 --> 00:20:16.352
And so the idea of having a project is that you can have a decision-making

414
00:20:16.362 --> 00:20:20.032
structure, a governance structure that can make decisions that goes

415
00:20:20.072 --> 00:20:21.612
across these different teams.

416
00:20:22.492 --> 00:20:25.712
So let's stay with the idea of a team, because teams don't just happen,

417
00:20:26.912 --> 00:20:30.762
especially when someone's coming from this team that has one set of

418
00:20:30.812 --> 00:20:34.252
goals, someone else is from this team that has a completely different set of goals.

419
00:20:34.552 --> 00:20:35.852
They don't speak the same language.

420
00:20:36.752 --> 00:20:40.132
In Dubai, very often, it's literally they don't speak the same language.

421
00:20:40.852 --> 00:20:41.552
Yeah.

422
00:20:42.512 --> 00:20:44.352
But somehow you've got to turn that into a team.

423
00:20:44.832 --> 00:20:48.642
So do you have any thoughts? I'll go to Heba and then back to you,

424
00:20:48.712 --> 00:20:50.332
Dawn, on that one.

425
00:20:51.692 --> 00:20:55.052
There are, I think, a few factors to keep the team

426
00:20:55.312 --> 00:20:58.752
alive, and one of the first one is to introduce

427
00:20:58.872 --> 00:21:00.892
psychological safety within the team.

428
00:21:01.932 --> 00:21:03.992
That's really important. And then

429
00:21:05.192 --> 00:21:09.092
be vulnerable with your team so they can be vulnerable with you as well to

430
00:21:09.932 --> 00:21:11.412
face their failures, to

431
00:21:13.312 --> 00:21:16.912
give them that empowerment. And choosing the right

432
00:21:17.052 --> 00:21:19.892
team, having the right balance is very important.

433
00:21:19.992 --> 00:21:23.552
So if I am not passionate about what I'm doing

434
00:21:24.052 --> 00:21:27.172
in my role, I wouldn't have stayed.

435
00:21:27.792 --> 00:21:27.872
I

436
00:21:29.172 --> 00:21:33.152
love that field. I want to give more into it, and

437
00:21:33.332 --> 00:21:35.652
I am a thinker and analyzer, so

438
00:21:36.472 --> 00:21:39.832
my character fits the job that I am doing.

439
00:21:40.312 --> 00:21:43.152
So it's very important for a leader to have that

440
00:21:43.972 --> 00:21:47.842
clarity when they are selecting the team that

441
00:21:47.872 --> 00:21:49.932
they want to put together to work on that

442
00:21:51.932 --> 00:21:52.692
project. So

443
00:21:53.772 --> 00:21:57.232
Belbin roles is a very important

444
00:21:59.412 --> 00:22:02.352
one of the methodologies that people can use to analyze the

445
00:22:03.152 --> 00:22:06.592
different characters and personalities and how to set them in the team.

446
00:22:07.352 --> 00:22:11.272
The second or third thing, having clarity of

447
00:22:11.352 --> 00:22:13.352
vision when the team is formed,

448
00:22:14.372 --> 00:22:18.332
giving them the guidance, giving them trust to do what they think

449
00:22:18.372 --> 00:22:21.872
is best, but also being there for them, supporting them,

450
00:22:23.292 --> 00:22:26.692
pushing them forward to meet the goals and objectives,

451
00:22:26.752 --> 00:22:28.452
and thinking about their

452
00:22:30.432 --> 00:22:34.212
psychological safety, their mental health while they're doing it,

453
00:22:34.862 --> 00:22:38.712
especially if it's a sensitive project or a huge

454
00:22:38.832 --> 00:22:41.752
project or whatever. And then

455
00:22:43.332 --> 00:22:46.132
motivating them, of course, motivating the team,

456
00:22:47.572 --> 00:22:49.472
getting their creativity flowing,

457
00:22:51.512 --> 00:22:55.412
teaching them how to be lifelong learners, and that's something I talk about in the

458
00:22:55.452 --> 00:22:56.272
book, in the fire

459
00:22:57.992 --> 00:23:01.552
section. Because they need to keep learning so they can

460
00:23:01.612 --> 00:23:05.052
innovate. And even if they move to another project, that learning

461
00:23:05.472 --> 00:23:05.612
is

462
00:23:06.712 --> 00:23:09.652
going to be useful at the end of the day.

463
00:23:10.412 --> 00:23:13.692
And the last thing regarding teams, I would say

464
00:23:15.452 --> 00:23:19.372
they need to be proud of being in that team.

465
00:23:19.912 --> 00:23:23.332
So they have to create, the leaders has

466
00:23:23.792 --> 00:23:27.772
to create that sense of belonging within

467
00:23:27.832 --> 00:23:30.482
that team, sense of pride, because

468
00:23:30.612 --> 00:23:34.392
otherwise they might not work well together.

469
00:23:34.892 --> 00:23:36.992
They might not be proud of what they are doing.

470
00:23:37.072 --> 00:23:41.032
But that's basically the leader's job, to help them

471
00:23:41.172 --> 00:23:43.752
see that, help them be proud of what they have achieved

472
00:23:44.572 --> 00:23:46.692
and being proud of them as well.

473
00:23:48.672 --> 00:23:51.982
And so one of the things there as well is

474
00:23:53.532 --> 00:23:55.192
the pride and

475
00:23:56.492 --> 00:23:58.932
sort of motivation were some of the things you touched on there.

476
00:23:58.942 --> 00:24:02.752
And one of the things that can really help with that is having a really clear

477
00:24:02.812 --> 00:24:03.482
sense of mission

478
00:24:04.472 --> 00:24:05.152
for a project-

479
00:24:05.392 --> 00:24:05.402
Yeah

480
00:24:05.402 --> 00:24:08.672
... for example. So my very first

481
00:24:09.772 --> 00:24:13.452
foray into project land was with a software

482
00:24:13.532 --> 00:24:17.424
company20 something years ago. I'm not going to tell you exactly how

483
00:24:17.464 --> 00:24:21.424
many years. Actually, it might be closer to 30. But anyway, never mind.

484
00:24:22.324 --> 00:24:24.604
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away.

485
00:24:25.324 --> 00:24:25.554
And

486
00:24:28.044 --> 00:24:31.864
so I was in a new industry. I knew nothing about the

487
00:24:31.904 --> 00:24:34.644
industry. I knew nothing about the company.

488
00:24:34.774 --> 00:24:35.544
But they

489
00:24:36.484 --> 00:24:37.024
gave me

490
00:24:37.824 --> 00:24:41.244
profit and loss responsibility for their two biggest customers.

491
00:24:41.924 --> 00:24:45.384
And so literally a week after I joined this company, they

492
00:24:46.604 --> 00:24:50.324
had a kickoff for this big project for one of the world's

493
00:24:50.344 --> 00:24:53.184
biggest telephone companies, telcos.

494
00:24:54.024 --> 00:24:55.424
And so our project manager

495
00:24:56.584 --> 00:24:58.444
is like, "Okay, Stuart, you've got to come,

496
00:25:00.384 --> 00:25:02.764
but don't say anything because you don't know anything.

497
00:25:03.344 --> 00:25:04.744
You've never run projects. You

498
00:25:06.224 --> 00:25:08.304
don't know anything. You don't know the industry. You don't know the customers.

499
00:25:08.324 --> 00:25:09.264
You don't know the product. Just

500
00:25:10.084 --> 00:25:13.664
come, shake hands, smile, drink some tea, and

501
00:25:14.704 --> 00:25:18.674
that's it. That's your job." And so anyway, the customer's

502
00:25:18.803 --> 00:25:19.914
project manager stood up

503
00:25:21.104 --> 00:25:25.064
and he began, he's like, "Dearly beloved, we're gathered here today to replace the

504
00:25:25.084 --> 00:25:27.284
billing system." My hand goes up

505
00:25:28.364 --> 00:25:28.784
straight away.

506
00:25:29.724 --> 00:25:33.684
My project manager's thumping my arm, like, "Just put your hand down.

507
00:25:34.164 --> 00:25:34.584
Shut up."

508
00:25:35.484 --> 00:25:39.424
And those who know me will know that that is a useless thing to try and do

509
00:25:39.484 --> 00:25:40.164
to get me to shut up.

510
00:25:40.184 --> 00:25:40.644
Oh, yeah.

511
00:25:40.944 --> 00:25:41.064
Yeah.

512
00:25:41.124 --> 00:25:41.174
Yeah.

513
00:25:41.184 --> 00:25:42.444
It's just not going to happen, right?

514
00:25:42.964 --> 00:25:45.744
So he's like, "Stuart, what is it?" I said, "Well, we're not here to replace a

515
00:25:45.764 --> 00:25:46.704
billing system, are we?"

516
00:25:48.364 --> 00:25:51.364
He said, "Well, I think so. I think we're paying you $13 million to do that." I

517
00:25:51.404 --> 00:25:55.364
said, "No. You're paying us $13 million to

518
00:25:55.524 --> 00:25:58.444
grow revenue and improve customer satisfaction.

519
00:26:01.144 --> 00:26:02.464
So why don't we focus on that?"

520
00:26:03.364 --> 00:26:05.564
Because that's a completely different kind of mission

521
00:26:06.824 --> 00:26:10.644
to the mission of, oh, well, we're just going to replace a bit of software, right?

522
00:26:11.864 --> 00:26:15.804
And it was really fascinating, and I knew nothing about project management,

523
00:26:16.664 --> 00:26:20.484
but I understood a little bit about business and leadership even then.

524
00:26:21.124 --> 00:26:24.284
Right? And so by creating that mission,

525
00:26:25.243 --> 00:26:28.584
the team was able to kind of fall in behind that and go, "Okay, right.

526
00:26:28.724 --> 00:26:30.664
Now we know what we're trying to achieve.

527
00:26:30.724 --> 00:26:33.124
When we're making decisions, we know why we're making the decisions.

528
00:26:33.154 --> 00:26:36.984
We know how to start optimizing those decisions." So I'm not just making a decision

529
00:26:37.024 --> 00:26:40.144
because I'm the developer and, well, I like a screen that looks like this.

530
00:26:40.844 --> 00:26:44.304
I know my goal is to make it easier for the call center people to deliver a great

531
00:26:44.384 --> 00:26:46.224
service. Okay. Right. How do I do that?

532
00:26:47.104 --> 00:26:51.024
And it changed the whole vibe of the project, which was a lot of fun.

533
00:26:52.744 --> 00:26:56.504
So Dawn, same thing across to you about how do you

534
00:26:56.704 --> 00:27:00.134
start building that team? Because in

535
00:27:00.144 --> 00:27:04.044
projects you don't necessarily get to choose the team,

536
00:27:04.124 --> 00:27:04.424
do you?

537
00:27:05.584 --> 00:27:08.924
Well, a lot of times we have more influence than we think.

538
00:27:09.193 --> 00:27:09.193
Uh-huh.

539
00:27:09.244 --> 00:27:09.644
And I have a

540
00:27:10.924 --> 00:27:12.124
whole chapter on

541
00:27:13.864 --> 00:27:16.044
loving the ones you're with. So

542
00:27:17.684 --> 00:27:21.504
if anybody recognizes the Stephen Stills lyric, love the

543
00:27:21.564 --> 00:27:22.114
ones you're with,

544
00:27:23.064 --> 00:27:26.944
that's what that comes from because sometimes you really don't get a choice.

545
00:27:27.024 --> 00:27:29.804
You get who you get, and you need to work with who you get.

546
00:27:30.344 --> 00:27:30.744
But

547
00:27:31.544 --> 00:27:35.064
other times you do have a lot of influence, a lot more influence than you think,

548
00:27:35.164 --> 00:27:38.244
because if your project sponsor is the lion

549
00:27:39.084 --> 00:27:42.504
and the project is very important to the sponsor,

550
00:27:43.004 --> 00:27:46.364
they will find a way to get the resources they need to be

551
00:27:46.404 --> 00:27:49.054
successful if you make your case to them.

552
00:27:49.164 --> 00:27:52.504
I had done it many times, even as a junior project manager.

553
00:27:52.904 --> 00:27:56.144
It's like, "Look, we need this skill. Where is said skill?

554
00:27:56.604 --> 00:27:58.984
We need to get it. Where are we going to get it from?

555
00:27:59.264 --> 00:28:01.104
I heard Stuart is really good at that.

556
00:28:01.284 --> 00:28:05.164
What about him?" And then suddenly, "Welcome to the team, Stuart."

557
00:28:06.134 --> 00:28:06.484
And so

558
00:28:07.484 --> 00:28:08.784
it happens that way.

559
00:28:10.084 --> 00:28:10.524
Excellent.

560
00:28:11.764 --> 00:28:12.084
Love it.

561
00:28:12.644 --> 00:28:15.684
The one thing I did want to mention, if you don't mind, is I love-

562
00:28:15.744 --> 00:28:15.753
Yeah

563
00:28:15.753 --> 00:28:19.444
... a lot of what Heba was talking about in her

564
00:28:20.064 --> 00:28:24.024
view, and what it reminded me of something that we talk

565
00:28:24.064 --> 00:28:27.984
about a lot, which is creating a healthy culture that gets results.

566
00:28:28.964 --> 00:28:32.353
And a lot of the things that Heba talked about are beautiful

567
00:28:32.364 --> 00:28:36.204
sub-bullets to that idea of creating a healthy culture.

568
00:28:36.223 --> 00:28:40.034
And I have certainly, I'm sure many of us here on the call have

569
00:28:40.064 --> 00:28:43.964
certainly had to create a culture that's

570
00:28:44.004 --> 00:28:47.844
healthy, that's a lot of those things that Heba talked about

571
00:28:48.484 --> 00:28:50.104
inside a toxic culture.

572
00:28:52.024 --> 00:28:55.834
So where the organizational culture is chaos, it's

573
00:28:55.864 --> 00:28:59.534
toxic, but you create this little bubble inside of

574
00:28:59.604 --> 00:29:03.504
it, that's your project and your project team, where it is

575
00:29:03.524 --> 00:29:07.404
healthy to challenge, it is healthy to be curious, it is healthy to

576
00:29:07.444 --> 00:29:11.224
work together and help each other, and we show up for each other every

577
00:29:11.324 --> 00:29:14.404
day. Meanwhile, all this other nonsense is flying around.

578
00:29:14.584 --> 00:29:17.764
It is a beautiful thing when we can create that.

579
00:29:18.024 --> 00:29:21.624
But when you say that, right, and I'll throw this open to both of you.

580
00:29:22.004 --> 00:29:25.904
I know that Ashok, so Ashok comes to pretty much every webinar we do, and we

581
00:29:25.984 --> 00:29:26.844
love him to pieces.

582
00:29:28.144 --> 00:29:30.004
And he's doing exactly the right thing.

583
00:29:30.044 --> 00:29:32.344
He's kind of commenting away there.

584
00:29:32.354 --> 00:29:35.794
And I know that as you say that, Ashok's sitting there and he's going,

585
00:29:36.724 --> 00:29:40.004
"Yeah, but what if your lion is one of the scary ones?"

586
00:29:40.044 --> 00:29:40.184
Yeah.

587
00:29:40.384 --> 00:29:42.844
Right? What if they're the ones who are making it toxic?

588
00:29:43.004 --> 00:29:43.064
Mm-hmm.

589
00:29:43.124 --> 00:29:46.844
How do you create that bubble if the lion is trying

590
00:29:46.864 --> 00:29:48.324
to burst your bubble all the time?

591
00:29:48.804 --> 00:29:48.844
I

592
00:29:50.664 --> 00:29:54.144
love that. That's a great question, and it happens a lot.

593
00:29:54.624 --> 00:29:58.044
And so I tell stories at the beginning of each of the

594
00:29:58.104 --> 00:30:01.984
chapters, and one of them is this one sponsor who was

595
00:30:02.024 --> 00:30:04.844
exactly that, who was exactly the scary...

596
00:30:04.984 --> 00:30:07.044
Everybody was scared of him, tried to avoid him.

597
00:30:07.424 --> 00:30:09.384
In fact, in team meetings,

598
00:30:10.404 --> 00:30:14.324
he was a C-suite team member, and so when we would all meet

599
00:30:14.364 --> 00:30:17.964
with him as his direct reports, he'd light a fire under people and watch them

600
00:30:18.004 --> 00:30:19.624
dance for pleasure. It was

601
00:30:20.444 --> 00:30:23.992
horribleSo what did I do?

602
00:30:24.672 --> 00:30:28.432
Well, I did create the bubble, and the bubble was more important.

603
00:30:28.492 --> 00:30:32.392
It was even more important because of

604
00:30:32.572 --> 00:30:36.252
his behavior and because of everybody's reaction to his behavior.

605
00:30:37.072 --> 00:30:39.962
Now, so how do you do that? Well, one of the things

606
00:30:40.072 --> 00:30:43.932
is you have to create a great relationship with this lion

607
00:30:44.052 --> 00:30:47.472
as the project manager, and you have to say, "Don't worry.

608
00:30:48.332 --> 00:30:50.312
I got them. You don't have to

609
00:30:51.812 --> 00:30:55.452
interact with them individually. You're a very busy person.

610
00:30:55.512 --> 00:30:59.442
You have bigger things to do. That's why you have me, so I

611
00:30:59.472 --> 00:31:01.882
got this." So creating that

612
00:31:03.692 --> 00:31:07.372
reason for him to not go, which he was doing, and it was

613
00:31:07.512 --> 00:31:10.792
terrible going straight to the team members and

614
00:31:10.872 --> 00:31:14.712
making them scared and making

615
00:31:14.792 --> 00:31:18.502
them want me to do something different that I know isn't the right thing for my

616
00:31:18.592 --> 00:31:20.912
job as a project manager. It was horrible.

617
00:31:21.052 --> 00:31:22.372
So I had to

618
00:31:24.952 --> 00:31:28.692
encourage, otherwise some people might call it manipulate, but

619
00:31:28.752 --> 00:31:32.232
encourage him to just work with

620
00:31:32.292 --> 00:31:35.992
me, and then I was the shield for the team,

621
00:31:36.912 --> 00:31:39.472
and the team worked much better that way.

622
00:31:40.112 --> 00:31:43.412
And then I was able to manage his expectations, make sure that he

623
00:31:43.552 --> 00:31:47.432
was satisfied, and if he was going to bite anybody's head off, it was going to be

624
00:31:47.472 --> 00:31:51.102
mine. And that was okay with me, because I felt that

625
00:31:51.912 --> 00:31:52.492
was my job.

626
00:31:53.852 --> 00:31:55.052
Cool. Brilliant.

627
00:31:55.432 --> 00:31:55.552
Yeah.

628
00:31:55.592 --> 00:31:56.672
Fantastic. I like that.

629
00:31:56.732 --> 00:31:59.072
You have to take one for the team, right?

630
00:31:59.732 --> 00:32:00.012
Yeah.

631
00:32:00.412 --> 00:32:02.092
I want to add to that as well.

632
00:32:03.332 --> 00:32:04.432
When you're dealing with

633
00:32:05.592 --> 00:32:08.752
a manager or a superior who's stubborn or

634
00:32:09.052 --> 00:32:10.632
argumentative or,

635
00:32:11.472 --> 00:32:12.132
as you said,

636
00:32:13.212 --> 00:32:16.942
they could be vicious, actually. I recommend it in my

637
00:32:17.012 --> 00:32:19.292
book is to let them win.

638
00:32:20.092 --> 00:32:23.952
If you think your idea is right, if you think whatever you're

639
00:32:23.992 --> 00:32:24.912
doing is right,

640
00:32:25.832 --> 00:32:29.712
and you walk into an argument with them, let them win that argument.

641
00:32:30.652 --> 00:32:34.472
Because even if you win and let's say, yeah, you are right,

642
00:32:34.572 --> 00:32:37.852
they will eventually resent you from inside.

643
00:32:37.882 --> 00:32:37.882
Mm.

644
00:32:37.892 --> 00:32:39.832
That type of personality, they would resent.

645
00:32:40.712 --> 00:32:43.892
So what you do instead, you prove it in action, not in

646
00:32:43.972 --> 00:32:46.732
words. You prove it to them, you show them.

647
00:32:47.192 --> 00:32:51.182
Even if they say, "You know what? This is not going

648
00:32:51.192 --> 00:32:54.712
to work," and they shut you down, you go and do a small POC

649
00:32:54.792 --> 00:32:58.402
or something like this. Prove your point in a different way,

650
00:32:59.032 --> 00:33:01.052
other than getting into an argument with them.

651
00:33:01.832 --> 00:33:05.652
So let them win that argument, and you'll

652
00:33:06.012 --> 00:33:08.512
lose a battle, but eventually you'll win a war.

653
00:33:09.292 --> 00:33:09.302
Nice.

654
00:33:09.332 --> 00:33:13.252
Like it. So Ashok replied to that, "You've got to be the antelope for

655
00:33:13.292 --> 00:33:14.212
the lion to eat."

656
00:33:15.112 --> 00:33:15.572
No.

657
00:33:16.552 --> 00:33:17.792
You just have to be smarter.

658
00:33:19.312 --> 00:33:20.632
Yeah.

659
00:33:20.792 --> 00:33:21.042
There you go, yeah.

660
00:33:21.042 --> 00:33:23.352
Because then what would the team do without you?

661
00:33:23.692 --> 00:33:27.672
So you have to be strong enough, fast enough, smart enough to not get eaten.

662
00:33:27.812 --> 00:33:30.432
But I love your thinking.

663
00:33:30.952 --> 00:33:33.132
Yeah. Getting with the spirit. I love it.

664
00:33:33.512 --> 00:33:37.152
So you'll be shielding the team from them, but at the same time,

665
00:33:37.272 --> 00:33:40.012
also staying true to your values and

666
00:33:41.672 --> 00:33:45.652
you have your own integrity that you need to maintain also when you're dealing

667
00:33:45.692 --> 00:33:48.992
with other people, even if they are your superiors. Yeah.

668
00:33:49.272 --> 00:33:49.452
Yes.

669
00:33:49.512 --> 00:33:50.132
Yeah.

670
00:33:50.152 --> 00:33:50.552
It's tough.

671
00:33:50.592 --> 00:33:52.871
And those superiors are often...

672
00:33:54.392 --> 00:33:58.302
There are lots and lots of surveys about really senior executives,

673
00:33:58.432 --> 00:34:02.061
and especially in growth companies,

674
00:34:02.192 --> 00:34:02.452
where-

675
00:34:02.632 --> 00:34:02.832
Mm

676
00:34:02.892 --> 00:34:05.112
... it's more of an entrepreneurial thing, but also big

677
00:34:06.652 --> 00:34:08.033
studies about CEOs

678
00:34:08.892 --> 00:34:11.412
and what percentage of them are actually psychopaths,

679
00:34:12.872 --> 00:34:16.473
clinically psych. I don't mean they go around killing people, but clinically,

680
00:34:16.513 --> 00:34:18.712
they're psychopathic, right?

681
00:34:18.781 --> 00:34:18.781
Yeah.

682
00:34:18.852 --> 00:34:19.062
And

683
00:34:19.932 --> 00:34:23.812
so they tend to be rather action-oriented.

684
00:34:24.232 --> 00:34:27.752
Just get it done. Get the project done.

685
00:34:27.772 --> 00:34:28.973
That's true. Right.

686
00:34:29.053 --> 00:34:29.192
So

687
00:34:30.272 --> 00:34:34.033
now, we know that if we do that, we're setting our people up

688
00:34:34.312 --> 00:34:38.072
for failure. So what are your thoughts around that topic?

689
00:34:38.152 --> 00:34:42.091
Is my statement true? Do we have evidence

690
00:34:42.132 --> 00:34:42.531
for that?

691
00:34:43.632 --> 00:34:47.572
How do you defend against that? What's the minimum level of planning,

692
00:34:47.592 --> 00:34:50.872
and what kind of planning, and how do we include the team so that they can own the

693
00:34:50.912 --> 00:34:51.991
plan?

694
00:34:53.412 --> 00:34:56.232
Let's see. Where should we go first? Who wants to go first?

695
00:34:59.052 --> 00:34:59.952
It's so juicy.

696
00:35:00.352 --> 00:35:00.752
I know.

697
00:35:03.652 --> 00:35:06.792
So I'm going to go, Dawn, I'm going to go to you first on this one.

698
00:35:06.852 --> 00:35:08.712
Sure. I feel like

699
00:35:10.132 --> 00:35:13.332
we've all had our challenges with executives.

700
00:35:14.152 --> 00:35:17.972
And for whatever, sometimes it's they're flip-floppers, and they

701
00:35:18.012 --> 00:35:21.412
forget their decision. Sometimes it's they're exactly the

702
00:35:21.512 --> 00:35:25.412
roaring type of why isn't this done already, get it done,

703
00:35:26.232 --> 00:35:27.452
kind of executive.

704
00:35:28.792 --> 00:35:32.412
Everybody, we're humans, we all have personalities, we all have

705
00:35:33.032 --> 00:35:36.932
personality pluses and minuses. I'm amongst

706
00:35:36.992 --> 00:35:40.872
that with many minuses. And I feel like the

707
00:35:40.912 --> 00:35:44.052
key is to get to know them and what is underneath

708
00:35:45.112 --> 00:35:47.222
the roar. What is underneath that?

709
00:35:47.812 --> 00:35:51.302
So for the people who are like, what is happening?

710
00:35:51.392 --> 00:35:54.452
Well, a lot of times the board is on their case.

711
00:35:54.612 --> 00:35:58.092
They have to answer to, even if it's the CEO, they have to answer to

712
00:35:58.132 --> 00:36:01.672
someone a lot of times. The private equity company, the

713
00:36:01.692 --> 00:36:04.002
board, they're answering to someone. There's pressure there.

714
00:36:04.672 --> 00:36:08.152
And so what we talked about in the beginning is the why behind it.

715
00:36:08.212 --> 00:36:11.412
So just like your great example, Stuart, no, we're not replacing the billing

716
00:36:11.432 --> 00:36:15.152
system. The why. Well, what is really happening there?

717
00:36:15.212 --> 00:36:18.952
And the more we understand the why, why are they

718
00:36:19.012 --> 00:36:22.002
reacting this way, the more we can be patient and

719
00:36:22.152 --> 00:36:26.068
listen to themThe better we can help them, and

720
00:36:26.088 --> 00:36:29.788
we can create a plan and become their trusted advisor, not just their whipping

721
00:36:29.848 --> 00:36:33.768
boy. That's not what I want to be. I want to be

722
00:36:33.788 --> 00:36:37.388
their trusted advisor, which you earn. Yep.

723
00:36:37.408 --> 00:36:41.388
And you earn that- Exactly ... by asking questions, by listening, by coming up with

724
00:36:41.408 --> 00:36:44.828
solutions, not by just saying, "Yes, sir."

725
00:36:46.508 --> 00:36:46.688
Yeah.

726
00:36:48.068 --> 00:36:52.008
One more thing to add, you need to keep in mind that they see the

727
00:36:52.088 --> 00:36:54.988
bigger picture. You might not be able to see it.

728
00:36:55.048 --> 00:36:55.608
Great point.

729
00:36:55.628 --> 00:36:59.348
So they see different connections even outside the

730
00:36:59.408 --> 00:37:01.148
entity that you are, and they might see

731
00:37:02.088 --> 00:37:05.248
other things that connect, and then they go and ask for it

732
00:37:05.968 --> 00:37:06.548
because of

733
00:37:07.608 --> 00:37:10.328
pressure or that kind of connection.

734
00:37:10.408 --> 00:37:12.728
So we have to be aware of that.

735
00:37:13.748 --> 00:37:17.648
We are more into our project and the details within our project,

736
00:37:17.728 --> 00:37:19.728
but they have a different view.

737
00:37:20.728 --> 00:37:24.348
That's a great point. And they don't always tell you because they just are

738
00:37:24.448 --> 00:37:27.908
dictators, so they dictate, "Get it done." And you're like, "Well, help me

739
00:37:27.948 --> 00:37:31.888
understand a little bit more about why the pressure all of a sudden."

740
00:37:31.908 --> 00:37:35.188
Well, the marketplace, well, the competitor, well, the board, well, the something.

741
00:37:35.228 --> 00:37:38.028
There's probably a reason that they're not telling you. I love that.

742
00:37:38.088 --> 00:37:39.768
That's a great point, Heba. Mm-hmm.

743
00:37:40.008 --> 00:37:42.168
And that thing about relationship's great because

744
00:37:43.268 --> 00:37:46.608
not only do they see the bigger picture that you might not see,

745
00:37:47.368 --> 00:37:50.628
they also don't see the detailed picture.

746
00:37:51.228 --> 00:37:51.808
So they will-

747
00:37:51.908 --> 00:37:51.978
Yep

748
00:37:52.068 --> 00:37:55.908
... miss things that you see.

749
00:37:55.958 --> 00:37:59.688
And this happens all the time. I was giggling

750
00:37:59.768 --> 00:38:00.068
actually,

751
00:38:00.948 --> 00:38:04.288
Dom, when you talked about them flip-flopping on decisions and things.

752
00:38:05.228 --> 00:38:07.048
We're a tiny company, and I do that.

753
00:38:07.728 --> 00:38:07.738
Mm.

754
00:38:07.748 --> 00:38:09.608
I don't do it because I'm a flake.

755
00:38:10.348 --> 00:38:10.508
Right.

756
00:38:10.538 --> 00:38:14.428
I do it because this person who's talking to me, I talk to him once every

757
00:38:14.468 --> 00:38:15.828
three weeks for 10 minutes,

758
00:38:17.108 --> 00:38:20.408
and to him, this is the important decision point for him.

759
00:38:20.508 --> 00:38:23.788
For me, this is a 10-minute conversation in 100 conversations I have today.

760
00:38:24.288 --> 00:38:24.708
Mm-hmm.

761
00:38:25.418 --> 00:38:25.628
Right?

762
00:38:26.468 --> 00:38:26.688
And

763
00:38:28.108 --> 00:38:29.348
I'm not saying that to be arrogant.

764
00:38:29.528 --> 00:38:31.288
I'm just sharing that so that-

765
00:38:31.748 --> 00:38:32.108
That's real

766
00:38:32.128 --> 00:38:33.908
... people on the session, that's reality.

767
00:38:34.368 --> 00:38:34.568
Right.

768
00:38:34.948 --> 00:38:35.548
And so,

769
00:38:36.848 --> 00:38:38.158
be patient with your lions.

770
00:38:38.868 --> 00:38:39.208
Mm-hmm.

771
00:38:39.748 --> 00:38:40.768
Right? Don't

772
00:38:41.628 --> 00:38:44.868
expect them to know everything and to be able to context switch

773
00:38:45.408 --> 00:38:46.968
instantly, because they're human.

774
00:38:47.928 --> 00:38:48.148
Yeah.

775
00:38:48.208 --> 00:38:49.788
They're lions, but human.

776
00:38:50.948 --> 00:38:51.788
It's such a great-

777
00:38:51.928 --> 00:38:52.488
I'm confused

778
00:38:52.648 --> 00:38:55.528
... it's such a great point. And I've seen a lot of junior

779
00:38:55.568 --> 00:38:59.328
PMs feel that, well, you should have all the

780
00:38:59.408 --> 00:39:02.548
answers. Why don't you have the answers? I have a question.

781
00:39:02.668 --> 00:39:06.128
I need you to make a decision. Why can't you just make one and stick to it?

782
00:39:06.158 --> 00:39:09.548
And it's just one of those things that, yes, you have to

783
00:39:09.588 --> 00:39:13.337
be a bit empathetic, that there are a thousand things that they're

784
00:39:13.348 --> 00:39:14.497
dealing with today,

785
00:39:15.318 --> 00:39:19.098
and they might not remember two weeks ago, the conversation exactly.

786
00:39:19.928 --> 00:39:20.078
Absolutely.

787
00:39:20.078 --> 00:39:23.128
And so you need to remind them, "Hey, last

788
00:39:23.168 --> 00:39:26.988
time I mentioned we would need a decision on blah.

789
00:39:27.088 --> 00:39:29.848
Here's the information you asked for.

790
00:39:29.928 --> 00:39:33.458
Would you like to talk through it?" I mean, that's different than, "Do you have a

791
00:39:33.468 --> 00:39:37.348
decision for me today?" Like, on what again?

792
00:39:38.208 --> 00:39:38.888
Remind me.

793
00:39:39.328 --> 00:39:39.818
And

794
00:39:42.108 --> 00:39:46.008
one of the other things that I feel very passionately

795
00:39:46.068 --> 00:39:49.748
about, we're talking a lot about the lions because the lions matter,

796
00:39:49.968 --> 00:39:52.788
right? They're not the only beasties out there, but

797
00:39:54.768 --> 00:39:57.448
is that you need to be able to speak in their language.

798
00:39:59.328 --> 00:40:03.048
So if you want a decision from an executive,

799
00:40:03.948 --> 00:40:07.088
don't walk in with a thousand lines of technical detail.

800
00:40:07.608 --> 00:40:07.988
Mm-hmm.

801
00:40:09.388 --> 00:40:09.588
Right?

802
00:40:10.508 --> 00:40:12.888
I don't want data, actually.

803
00:40:14.148 --> 00:40:14.968
I want insight.

804
00:40:16.648 --> 00:40:20.068
I want to know what's the problem we're solving,

805
00:40:21.228 --> 00:40:23.848
what are the options, and what are the

806
00:40:25.208 --> 00:40:28.768
pros and cons, or what is the impact

807
00:40:29.248 --> 00:40:32.188
of those different options? Then I can make a decision.

808
00:40:33.088 --> 00:40:36.557
Well, you've expected that the person in front of you is good at their

809
00:40:36.688 --> 00:40:40.668
job, and that they've done the analysis, and they've done that detail

810
00:40:40.788 --> 00:40:44.728
work. And you might dig into a little bit that to understand a

811
00:40:44.768 --> 00:40:48.608
little bit about where that analysis came from so that you can be grounded a little

812
00:40:48.648 --> 00:40:49.948
bit more in that.

813
00:40:49.968 --> 00:40:50.048
And to test you.

814
00:40:50.648 --> 00:40:51.068
And to-

815
00:40:51.428 --> 00:40:53.987
And to test you. I want to make sure that you have done the homework, right?

816
00:40:54.068 --> 00:40:57.928
Yeah. That's fair. Yeah. And that you just, especially today, we didn't have

817
00:40:57.988 --> 00:41:00.288
that option, but that you didn't just ask AI,

818
00:41:01.428 --> 00:41:03.048
and that you actually used your brain.

819
00:41:03.588 --> 00:41:05.108
Don't talk to me about AI. Yeah.

820
00:41:05.228 --> 00:41:08.578
I'm sorry. Yeah. It's happening now. So true.

821
00:41:09.808 --> 00:41:10.268
Yeah.

822
00:41:10.388 --> 00:41:13.708
I need people to think, because in project land,

823
00:41:15.808 --> 00:41:19.648
part of the purpose of using that word is to remind people that

824
00:41:19.708 --> 00:41:22.008
nobody in the history of the world has been here before.

825
00:41:22.018 --> 00:41:22.318
Right.

826
00:41:22.388 --> 00:41:26.348
In this time and this place, something makes this project unique, and therefore,

827
00:41:26.468 --> 00:41:29.888
you cannot ask AI for answers and expect it to be correct.

828
00:41:30.128 --> 00:41:31.048
Especially.

829
00:41:31.768 --> 00:41:33.108
So this time and place, right?

830
00:41:33.168 --> 00:41:33.178
True.

831
00:41:33.208 --> 00:41:36.748
One of the things about this time and place is I saw a little article on

832
00:41:36.788 --> 00:41:38.428
LinkedIn by forgotten who,

833
00:41:39.408 --> 00:41:40.748
I really liked, that talked about

834
00:41:41.868 --> 00:41:43.308
a resurgence of PMOs.

835
00:41:44.168 --> 00:41:44.668
Mm.

836
00:41:44.808 --> 00:41:47.628
In part because the number

837
00:41:49.508 --> 00:41:52.928
of changes, so projects, and the

838
00:41:52.968 --> 00:41:56.088
velocity of them, and the timescales, and the

839
00:41:56.128 --> 00:42:00.108
complexity are all ramping up. So, PMOs have been

840
00:42:00.148 --> 00:42:00.848
under attack,

841
00:42:02.208 --> 00:42:03.128
and now they're coming back.

842
00:42:03.178 --> 00:42:03.178
Yeah.

843
00:42:03.188 --> 00:42:04.328
But they're coming back different.

844
00:42:04.968 --> 00:42:08.248
They're coming back being much more benefit-focused, much more

845
00:42:09.088 --> 00:42:12.948
portfolio and capacity, and just thinking about the stuff

846
00:42:13.008 --> 00:42:15.328
that really makes a difference. Focus, right?

847
00:42:15.388 --> 00:42:15.668
Mm.

848
00:42:16.068 --> 00:42:16.188
So,

849
00:42:17.288 --> 00:42:20.928
in this environment where change is coming faster and faster, there's more and more

850
00:42:20.988 --> 00:42:21.728
demand.

851
00:42:23.128 --> 00:42:24.408
What's that doing to our people?

852
00:42:25.448 --> 00:42:28.168
Heba, do you want to have a crack at that one?

853
00:42:29.296 --> 00:42:33.016
Well, I would think of it from a stability

854
00:42:33.136 --> 00:42:33.816
point of view.

855
00:42:34.676 --> 00:42:38.596
So if you have created a stable and healthy

856
00:42:38.676 --> 00:42:42.616
environment to your team, then whatever comes,

857
00:42:42.676 --> 00:42:46.606
they should be able to take it on with your support, with your guidance, with

858
00:42:46.636 --> 00:42:47.556
the empowerment,

859
00:42:48.356 --> 00:42:52.276
being able to become innovative and creative, but at

860
00:42:52.316 --> 00:42:56.296
the same time, you have that base solid and ready

861
00:42:56.356 --> 00:42:58.436
for anything that nobody can shake you.

862
00:42:59.036 --> 00:43:02.976
So these kind of changes that are happening very quickly, these kind

863
00:43:03.016 --> 00:43:04.126
of projects that are now,

864
00:43:05.516 --> 00:43:09.116
as you said, the PMOs are focusing more about

865
00:43:09.356 --> 00:43:12.756
benefits and about portfolio and basically the

866
00:43:13.196 --> 00:43:15.916
outcomes and the benefit at the most.

867
00:43:16.656 --> 00:43:16.836
So,

868
00:43:17.676 --> 00:43:20.496
thinking about that means that we

869
00:43:20.536 --> 00:43:24.396
have to change more in our

870
00:43:24.436 --> 00:43:26.556
project to always align with the benefits.

871
00:43:27.376 --> 00:43:31.076
So the constant changes also it takes a toll on the

872
00:43:31.116 --> 00:43:32.156
team. So they need to

873
00:43:33.095 --> 00:43:34.816
have a stable environment,

874
00:43:37.116 --> 00:43:40.756
have a dependable leader, someone who they can trust and

875
00:43:40.776 --> 00:43:43.496
he can trust them, or she can trust them.

876
00:43:44.556 --> 00:43:47.796
That would be like a solid foundation for the team.

877
00:43:48.816 --> 00:43:52.156
I like it. And Dawn, sometimes that comes across,

878
00:43:52.456 --> 00:43:55.556
this rush of change is just like this

879
00:43:56.216 --> 00:43:58.856
deluge of projects or just so many projects.

880
00:43:59.516 --> 00:44:02.076
And so everybody's trying to do five things at once.

881
00:44:02.176 --> 00:44:04.496
What does that do to the people? Just-

882
00:44:04.556 --> 00:44:08.376
Yeah. It's so bad. It's

883
00:44:08.616 --> 00:44:11.996
terrible. I've

884
00:44:12.876 --> 00:44:16.616
done seminars at giant tech companies, and one of the first things I ask

885
00:44:16.716 --> 00:44:19.066
is, "So let's see. Let's take a poll.

886
00:44:19.276 --> 00:44:22.606
How many projects are you on? How many people are on one project?"

887
00:44:23.616 --> 00:44:24.736
Like one person.

888
00:44:25.176 --> 00:44:27.326
And so put your thumbs up if you're on one project.

889
00:44:27.416 --> 00:44:27.686
On one-

890
00:44:27.716 --> 00:44:28.216
Give a thumbs up

891
00:44:28.576 --> 00:44:32.236
... are you on one project? And then it was like, are you on two

892
00:44:32.256 --> 00:44:34.896
projects still? Are you on three or more?

893
00:44:34.956 --> 00:44:38.716
And whoosh, all these hands go up. And we know about

894
00:44:38.796 --> 00:44:41.796
task switching today. We know about this.

895
00:44:41.896 --> 00:44:45.756
We know that every time you switch from one task to the next, from one

896
00:44:45.876 --> 00:44:49.836
project context to the other, you're going, "Where was I last time I was

897
00:44:49.896 --> 00:44:50.056
there?"

898
00:44:50.166 --> 00:44:50.166
Yeah.

899
00:44:50.166 --> 00:44:52.956
And this takes time.

900
00:44:52.976 --> 00:44:54.156
Mentally exhausting.

901
00:44:54.466 --> 00:44:54.696
Mm.

902
00:44:54.816 --> 00:44:57.356
And it becomes, yes, mentally exhausting.

903
00:44:57.416 --> 00:45:00.185
So not only do you lose time in the task switching,

904
00:45:01.156 --> 00:45:03.676
it's mentally exhausting because we're human.

905
00:45:04.146 --> 00:45:08.076
And so the more that people can use tools like yours,

906
00:45:08.856 --> 00:45:12.106
Stuart, to make sure, and I totally believe this,

907
00:45:12.876 --> 00:45:16.506
to make sure that the organization is focused on the right projects

908
00:45:16.656 --> 00:45:20.546
first, that it's prioritized, that we understand the priorities, and then

909
00:45:21.076 --> 00:45:24.516
that we understand and we are thoughtful and intentional

910
00:45:24.596 --> 00:45:28.296
about where we put people on those projects and

911
00:45:28.336 --> 00:45:32.326
when, and we, to the extent we can streamline them better so that

912
00:45:32.356 --> 00:45:36.276
people are on two, not three or more, like

913
00:45:36.716 --> 00:45:39.296
maybe two at the most. I don't know.

914
00:45:39.396 --> 00:45:41.176
And then in addition to this,

915
00:45:42.056 --> 00:45:45.536
the killer question is, and how many of you also have a day job

916
00:45:46.756 --> 00:45:50.376
in addition to being on projects?

917
00:45:50.436 --> 00:45:54.226
And the hands stay up many times. And we wonder

918
00:45:54.336 --> 00:45:55.756
why people are stressed.

919
00:45:56.796 --> 00:45:56.806
Yeah.

920
00:45:56.806 --> 00:45:58.756
We wonder why people cannot do their best work.

921
00:45:58.776 --> 00:46:00.896
And not just stressed, but unproductive.

922
00:46:01.256 --> 00:46:02.236
And unproductive.

923
00:46:02.256 --> 00:46:02.416
Yeah.

924
00:46:02.716 --> 00:46:06.706
So the American Psychology Association did a study looking at this task

925
00:46:06.736 --> 00:46:10.706
switching thing and for complex tasks like project, running

926
00:46:11.376 --> 00:46:15.076
and delivering projects. And when people are overloaded,

927
00:46:15.156 --> 00:46:18.286
you lose up to 40%, 4-0, not 1-4,

928
00:46:18.696 --> 00:46:21.776
4-0, 40% of their capacity.

929
00:46:22.836 --> 00:46:26.566
And so if you imagine you're on five projects, it's not just the context switching,

930
00:46:26.636 --> 00:46:30.596
it's the fact that if you're a delivery resource, your head's down doing

931
00:46:30.616 --> 00:46:33.986
something, you're writing code or whatever it is that you do, right?

932
00:46:34.636 --> 00:46:36.116
And then the phone rings,

933
00:46:37.556 --> 00:46:41.246
and it's one of the project managers on one of the projects you're on, and they're

934
00:46:41.276 --> 00:46:42.976
like, "Well, what's happened to my deliverable?"

935
00:46:43.656 --> 00:46:44.036
Mm-hmm.

936
00:46:45.416 --> 00:46:48.725
Okay, it's going to take me five minutes to deal with that conversation, and then

937
00:46:48.756 --> 00:46:52.216
it's going to take me another 10 minutes to get back into what I was doing, right?

938
00:46:52.676 --> 00:46:52.686
Yeah.

939
00:46:52.696 --> 00:46:54.656
By the time that's happened five times a day,

940
00:46:55.776 --> 00:46:59.736
right, there's no surprise. So overloading people is monumentally

941
00:47:00.096 --> 00:47:00.536
stupid.

942
00:47:01.156 --> 00:47:01.596
Mm-hmm.

943
00:47:02.136 --> 00:47:02.326
Yet-

944
00:47:02.356 --> 00:47:03.806
It's terrible. Mm-hmm.

945
00:47:03.896 --> 00:47:04.316
Yet, as an-

946
00:47:04.356 --> 00:47:05.836
There's one more also.

947
00:47:06.316 --> 00:47:07.296
Yeah, go ahead, Heather.

948
00:47:07.916 --> 00:47:11.876
One more factor is like, not only selecting the right project, are we

949
00:47:11.916 --> 00:47:15.636
selecting the right people? Do they have the basic capability

950
00:47:15.736 --> 00:47:19.656
that will enable them to run a certain type of

951
00:47:19.756 --> 00:47:23.076
project, for example? Do they have the

952
00:47:23.236 --> 00:47:27.136
authority to get the teams, as you talked about, Dawn, get the

953
00:47:27.176 --> 00:47:31.156
teams that they want with the right capabilities to be able to run

954
00:47:31.196 --> 00:47:33.536
that project? So that's also a factor.

955
00:47:33.806 --> 00:47:34.236
Absolutely.

956
00:47:34.356 --> 00:47:38.296
Yeah, 100%. So it's right projects with the right people-

957
00:47:38.356 --> 00:47:38.366
Right people

958
00:47:38.366 --> 00:47:39.616
... meaning right skills,

959
00:47:40.716 --> 00:47:42.856
with the right capacity at the time.

960
00:47:42.896 --> 00:47:43.756
And the right time.

961
00:47:44.076 --> 00:47:45.816
And the right time. Yeah, absolutely.

962
00:47:45.916 --> 00:47:49.896
There's a lot of rights that have to line up to make life be

963
00:47:49.936 --> 00:47:53.716
beautiful in project land, and most organizations need a lot of help with

964
00:47:53.756 --> 00:47:54.056
this.

965
00:47:54.576 --> 00:47:54.916
Well, and-

966
00:47:54.976 --> 00:47:55.055
Yeah

967
00:47:55.066 --> 00:47:57.526
... I was talking to a PMO just yesterday,

968
00:47:58.336 --> 00:48:02.176
and he was saying, "Look, what our execs, they want to see the RAG report, they

969
00:48:02.196 --> 00:48:05.016
want to see utilization rates, they want to see..." I said, "Why do they want to

970
00:48:05.056 --> 00:48:08.516
see the utilization rates?" "Well, they want to make sure everyone's 100% utilized

971
00:48:08.556 --> 00:48:09.096
or better."

972
00:48:10.376 --> 00:48:12.616
Right? And this is classic, right?

973
00:48:12.696 --> 00:48:16.476
Where executives are thinking that maximum

974
00:48:16.536 --> 00:48:19.296
utilization is the goal. It's not.

975
00:48:20.036 --> 00:48:20.396
Mm-hmm.

976
00:48:20.436 --> 00:48:20.976
No, it's not.

977
00:48:21.336 --> 00:48:25.096
Maximum productivity is the goal. Maximum benefits is the goal.

978
00:48:25.496 --> 00:48:28.996
Right. Again, back to the goal. What are we really aiming for here?

979
00:48:29.296 --> 00:48:29.875
Mm-hmm.

980
00:48:29.976 --> 00:48:33.956
Absolutely. And there's aA guy

981
00:48:33.976 --> 00:48:37.896
called Solberg, something like that, that did a

982
00:48:37.936 --> 00:48:40.906
whole bunch of studies actually, where he looked at

983
00:48:42.236 --> 00:48:44.896
what happens when you reduce the work in progress.

984
00:48:46.896 --> 00:48:48.096
And his

985
00:48:49.316 --> 00:48:52.536
data basically suggested what I call the rule of 50.

986
00:48:53.076 --> 00:48:53.226
Mm.

987
00:48:53.316 --> 00:48:56.316
So if you cut your work in progress in half,

988
00:48:58.056 --> 00:48:59.796
your velocity goes up by half.

989
00:49:00.276 --> 00:49:00.556
Mm.

990
00:49:01.516 --> 00:49:05.396
So it's an empirical rule. There's a bunch of queuing theory that says something

991
00:49:05.406 --> 00:49:07.965
slightly different, but it's potentially even a

992
00:49:08.816 --> 00:49:12.296
bigger improvement than that. But empirically, he found that if you cut the

993
00:49:12.336 --> 00:49:14.116
work in progress by half,

994
00:49:14.936 --> 00:49:16.576
your velocity goes up by half.

995
00:49:17.376 --> 00:49:17.696
Mm.

996
00:49:17.716 --> 00:49:20.406
And so it's this kind of paradoxical thing that if you

997
00:49:21.836 --> 00:49:23.196
reduce the workload,

998
00:49:24.496 --> 00:49:28.456
you become more productive and over the whole cycle, you get more

999
00:49:28.496 --> 00:49:28.706
done.

1000
00:49:30.216 --> 00:49:30.346
But here's the-

1001
00:49:30.396 --> 00:49:30.766
Yeah, there was a

1002
00:49:31.696 --> 00:49:34.156
whole book called "Essentialism." Have you seen this?

1003
00:49:34.196 --> 00:49:35.126
I haven't seen that. What's that? Tell me.

1004
00:49:35.236 --> 00:49:36.075
I love this.

1005
00:49:36.436 --> 00:49:37.646
"Essentialism."

1006
00:49:37.736 --> 00:49:41.256
Yeah. It's about choosing the thing

1007
00:49:42.276 --> 00:49:45.696
and keeping the main thing the main thing, and so really

1008
00:49:45.716 --> 00:49:49.476
deciding what is the main thing for me to work on, and being

1009
00:49:49.616 --> 00:49:53.016
sure that your day is structured so that you

1010
00:49:54.296 --> 00:49:56.896
afford yourself the time to work on that thing,

1011
00:49:58.676 --> 00:50:02.136
so that you can make progress. So there's this great image from it, it's so simple.

1012
00:50:02.596 --> 00:50:04.476
So imagine there's a circle, my

1013
00:50:05.296 --> 00:50:08.436
palm on my hand is a circle, and these are inches.

1014
00:50:08.476 --> 00:50:10.026
So yeah, I'm on five different projects.

1015
00:50:10.096 --> 00:50:13.676
I can make progress here, I can make progress here. Right?

1016
00:50:14.096 --> 00:50:17.806
Or I'm working on one project and I can

1017
00:50:17.876 --> 00:50:19.516
make progress here.

1018
00:50:20.996 --> 00:50:24.836
Five times the progress in the right direction on one

1019
00:50:24.916 --> 00:50:27.776
project versus I'm bifurcated and I'm across.

1020
00:50:28.056 --> 00:50:31.896
Just this one image was like, bah, yes, this is what we're trying to get people to

1021
00:50:31.936 --> 00:50:35.916
do, is get their people to be focused on the thing,

1022
00:50:36.156 --> 00:50:39.876
the top priority thing, which is why your tool is so helpful,

1023
00:50:40.256 --> 00:50:43.676
Stuart, because the executives can say, "These are the

1024
00:50:43.776 --> 00:50:44.676
priorities."

1025
00:50:45.636 --> 00:50:49.336
And then we can assign people with the right skills

1026
00:50:50.096 --> 00:50:54.076
and have the project managers negotiate for their time, so that at the

1027
00:50:54.156 --> 00:50:57.396
same time, we don't have five project managers outside somebody's office saying, "I

1028
00:50:57.436 --> 00:50:58.936
need my thing. I need my thing. I need my thing.

1029
00:50:58.976 --> 00:51:02.576
I need my thing." We say, "Okay, we've already negotiated,

1030
00:51:03.036 --> 00:51:06.896
and Jack is going to work on my thing this week and your thing next week, and our

1031
00:51:06.936 --> 00:51:08.056
projects are going to be fine."

1032
00:51:08.596 --> 00:51:12.586
So that's a great point. Because the side effect of this,

1033
00:51:12.676 --> 00:51:15.716
if you do it well, so it's not just which project should you do, it's

1034
00:51:15.816 --> 00:51:18.276
what order should you sequence them in?

1035
00:51:18.496 --> 00:51:18.916
Yes.

1036
00:51:19.156 --> 00:51:22.816
Right? So that you don't end up with that queue outside the resource

1037
00:51:22.856 --> 00:51:26.456
manager's office. Right? What sequence should you deliver them

1038
00:51:26.516 --> 00:51:29.356
in so that you can maximize the flow?

1039
00:51:29.936 --> 00:51:33.416
And the side benefit of this, of course, is that then your people

1040
00:51:33.456 --> 00:51:36.816
aren't working 80-hour weeks,

1041
00:51:37.376 --> 00:51:39.216
hair on fire, and they're burned out.

1042
00:51:39.656 --> 00:51:42.396
Getting 40 hours done. Like maybe not even.

1043
00:51:42.756 --> 00:51:42.896
Right.

1044
00:51:42.936 --> 00:51:45.796
Because, yeah, the tax. It's a

1045
00:51:47.476 --> 00:51:47.936
tax.

1046
00:51:48.656 --> 00:51:50.256
Yeah. Your team will have a life.

1047
00:51:50.876 --> 00:51:51.036
Yeah.

1048
00:51:51.076 --> 00:51:52.616
Yeah. What an idea.

1049
00:51:53.096 --> 00:51:53.675
Yeah.

1050
00:51:54.416 --> 00:51:56.816
Yeah. Doctor, take your own medicine. Never mind.

1051
00:51:57.676 --> 00:51:58.996
I know. Same.

1052
00:52:01.736 --> 00:52:04.376
It's a struggle. It's a struggle. Yeah.

1053
00:52:04.496 --> 00:52:06.176
It's a struggle in your personal life, too.

1054
00:52:06.496 --> 00:52:10.396
Absolutely,

1055
00:52:10.476 --> 00:52:12.796
we can use some of these principles in our personal lives.

1056
00:52:13.836 --> 00:52:14.176
Definitely.

1057
00:52:14.556 --> 00:52:18.226
And so the interesting thing there for me is that you have this

1058
00:52:18.696 --> 00:52:22.616
intervention around the portfolio management, so the prioritization and

1059
00:52:22.656 --> 00:52:23.776
sequencing and all that stuff,

1060
00:52:24.796 --> 00:52:28.376
that improves productivity, improves outcomes,

1061
00:52:29.096 --> 00:52:32.796
and I was just looking at some data actually

1062
00:52:33.256 --> 00:52:37.236
before this call, and there were a couple of studies that showed

1063
00:52:37.276 --> 00:52:39.626
that portfolio management, just doing that well

1064
00:52:43.836 --> 00:52:47.736
produces about

1065
00:52:47.756 --> 00:52:51.156
a 30% improvement in benefit outcomes

1066
00:52:51.936 --> 00:52:53.275
over the whole portfolio.

1067
00:52:53.476 --> 00:52:53.816
Sure.

1068
00:52:54.335 --> 00:52:57.586
So this is huge. This session's not about portfolio management, it's about

1069
00:52:57.616 --> 00:52:58.496
people.

1070
00:52:58.516 --> 00:52:58.686
Mm-hmm.

1071
00:52:58.736 --> 00:53:02.276
But again, I come back to the side effect is that that's because your people are

1072
00:53:02.316 --> 00:53:03.736
being more productive.

1073
00:53:03.816 --> 00:53:07.396
Yeah. And people suffer if you don't make those hard decisions up front.

1074
00:53:07.536 --> 00:53:08.676
Absolutely.

1075
00:53:09.696 --> 00:53:11.576
So we're sort of

1076
00:53:13.436 --> 00:53:15.496
banging up against time. I can't believe it.

1077
00:53:16.156 --> 00:53:16.845
These sessions always-

1078
00:53:16.845 --> 00:53:17.276
Go so quickly.

1079
00:53:17.676 --> 00:53:19.556
They do. These sessions always go so quickly.

1080
00:53:20.716 --> 00:53:21.596
So Heba,

1081
00:53:23.696 --> 00:53:24.356
two things.

1082
00:53:25.236 --> 00:53:28.156
First one is last thoughts and advice

1083
00:53:29.576 --> 00:53:29.896
on

1084
00:53:31.656 --> 00:53:33.156
leadership, getting your teams

1085
00:53:33.976 --> 00:53:36.496
empowered, looking after your team.

1086
00:53:37.096 --> 00:53:38.006
And the second thing is-

1087
00:53:38.476 --> 00:53:38.486
Yeah

1088
00:53:38.486 --> 00:53:39.436
... where do people get this?

1089
00:53:41.796 --> 00:53:45.376
Where do they get it? They can search for

1090
00:53:46.236 --> 00:53:50.226
Elements of Leadership and my name from Austin MacAuley publishers,

1091
00:53:50.916 --> 00:53:54.076
and they'll find the website easily, and it's available on Amazon as

1092
00:53:54.116 --> 00:53:57.856
well. Final thought is that don't forget

1093
00:53:57.936 --> 00:53:58.236
that

1094
00:53:59.096 --> 00:54:01.476
it's a balance. It's a balance of different

1095
00:54:03.056 --> 00:54:06.876
human-centric leadership aspects that you need to maintain.

1096
00:54:07.596 --> 00:54:11.396
At different times, you'll have to throw water in, or

1097
00:54:11.496 --> 00:54:15.476
wind or fire or earth, and sometimes you'll need them all to

1098
00:54:15.716 --> 00:54:19.396
keep fighting and to succeed in your project.

1099
00:54:22.176 --> 00:54:25.156
Excellent. Dawn, same question to you.

1100
00:54:27.336 --> 00:54:29.996
So we started with it's all about the people.

1101
00:54:30.246 --> 00:54:34.216
Processes can help, tools can help, but how are you taking care of your

1102
00:54:34.256 --> 00:54:36.916
people? How are you helping people be successful?

1103
00:54:37.016 --> 00:54:40.456
How are you creating a healthy culture for people where they can do their best

1104
00:54:40.576 --> 00:54:44.156
work? That's, to me, the challenge.And

1105
00:54:45.066 --> 00:54:48.636
I think both of us, Heba and I, are really trying to help with that

1106
00:54:48.706 --> 00:54:52.466
with the books that we've created and some of the work that we do.

1107
00:54:52.526 --> 00:54:55.136
And so thank you, Stuart, very much for having us both together.

1108
00:54:55.186 --> 00:54:57.666
It was a pleasure to be together with Heba here on this call.

1109
00:54:58.126 --> 00:55:00.126
Oh, the pleasure is absolutely mine.

1110
00:55:00.986 --> 00:55:03.566
Sometimes I feel in this job I'm the luckiest guy in the world because I get to

1111
00:55:03.606 --> 00:55:07.546
meet amazing people at all these conferences, and then for some reason they come on

1112
00:55:07.606 --> 00:55:09.906
webinars when I invite them, and it's just awesome.

1113
00:55:12.786 --> 00:55:13.086
So

1114
00:55:14.686 --> 00:55:18.526
again, the books, it's not really a book promotional tour or anything,

1115
00:55:18.606 --> 00:55:19.826
but the books are there.

1116
00:55:21.246 --> 00:55:21.946
By the way, Dawn

1117
00:55:22.846 --> 00:55:23.626
did

1118
00:55:24.846 --> 00:55:27.526
pull this one together as well. Dawn, do you want to talk about that really

1119
00:55:27.546 --> 00:55:30.106
briefly? And I'm so annoyed because I

1120
00:55:31.206 --> 00:55:34.386
didn't do a chapter. And I was

1121
00:55:35.026 --> 00:55:36.586
telling you this story the other week, Dawn.

1122
00:55:37.226 --> 00:55:41.086
I was about to send Dawn a really nasty message saying, "What are

1123
00:55:41.126 --> 00:55:44.526
you thinking, producing a book like this and not inviting me to write a chapter?

1124
00:55:44.586 --> 00:55:48.465
It's outrageous. I'm never going to talk to you again." And just

1125
00:55:48.506 --> 00:55:52.086
before I hit send, I thought, "I'd better check my inbox and see if there was

1126
00:55:52.166 --> 00:55:54.746
an invitation." And of course, there it was.

1127
00:55:55.186 --> 00:55:55.826
There it was.

1128
00:55:55.866 --> 00:55:56.966
Entirely my fault.

1129
00:55:57.666 --> 00:56:00.046
Yeah, no worries. Well, thank you.

1130
00:56:00.246 --> 00:56:03.626
But this is a fun book as well. And it's

1131
00:56:04.526 --> 00:56:07.926
a collaboration. You've got Jo Purrs in here. You've got Laura Barnard.

1132
00:56:08.006 --> 00:56:09.486
Lots of our friends. Yeah.

1133
00:56:09.526 --> 00:56:10.786
There's a whole bunch of people in there.

1134
00:56:10.886 --> 00:56:14.686
Lots of our PMO friends. So if it's flipped on your screen and you're not seeing

1135
00:56:14.726 --> 00:56:18.386
it, that one's called "Project Land Goes to the Movies:

1136
00:56:19.226 --> 00:56:21.726
22 Blockbuster Strategies for Project Success".

1137
00:56:22.186 --> 00:56:26.006
And so yes, there are 22 different chapters written by different authors from

1138
00:56:26.026 --> 00:56:27.526
around Project Land and the world.

1139
00:56:28.046 --> 00:56:28.386
And

1140
00:56:29.346 --> 00:56:33.206
it was a really fun one to put together because we got to talk about our

1141
00:56:33.286 --> 00:56:37.226
favorite movies, lessons from those favorite movies, and learn

1142
00:56:37.236 --> 00:56:41.146
lessons from the trenches from all these folks that have been in Project Land

1143
00:56:41.166 --> 00:56:45.106
and are experts. So a lot of fun. You'll see a lot of recognizable

1144
00:56:45.526 --> 00:56:49.376
names that have been with Stuart on this webinar in "Project Land Goes to the

1145
00:56:49.426 --> 00:56:49.706
Movies."

1146
00:56:50.026 --> 00:56:50.036
Awesome.

1147
00:56:50.046 --> 00:56:50.866
And you can go to

1148
00:56:50.986 --> 00:56:55.026
projectgurupress.com/moviesample

1149
00:56:55.106 --> 00:56:57.686
to get a free sample of that. You can also go to

1150
00:56:57.766 --> 00:57:01.666
projectgurupress.com/sample to get a sample of the

1151
00:57:01.686 --> 00:57:04.416
"Meet the Players in Project Land" book, which is the one that's all about the

1152
00:57:04.506 --> 00:57:08.366
people, and that sample includes those statistics and studies

1153
00:57:08.426 --> 00:57:10.726
that I mentioned in the very beginning of this.

1154
00:57:11.386 --> 00:57:13.646
So you can get that for free if you like. Yeah.

1155
00:57:13.686 --> 00:57:13.986
Brilliant.

1156
00:57:14.026 --> 00:57:14.846
Congratulations.

1157
00:57:15.106 --> 00:57:15.116
Thank you for that.

1158
00:57:15.386 --> 00:57:15.396
Thank you.

1159
00:57:15.396 --> 00:57:18.596
So it just remains to thank everybody for turning up, to thank

1160
00:57:20.086 --> 00:57:22.446
Dawn and Heba for sharing their time.

1161
00:57:23.086 --> 00:57:23.936
Heba, thank you for-

1162
00:57:23.976 --> 00:57:24.106
Thank you

1163
00:57:24.466 --> 00:57:27.215
... staying up late to do this. It's not too, too bad.

1164
00:57:27.215 --> 00:57:28.546
No, it's only 8:00 PM. It's okay.

1165
00:57:28.606 --> 00:57:30.636
Yeah, it's not too bad. You get back to the camera now.

1166
00:57:30.636 --> 00:57:31.506
Thank you for having us, Stuart.

1167
00:57:31.746 --> 00:57:32.576
But thank you for

1168
00:57:33.546 --> 00:57:35.506
taking time out to share your wisdom.

1169
00:57:37.326 --> 00:57:40.766
If you've enjoyed this one, keep your eyes open, look out for

1170
00:57:40.886 --> 00:57:43.566
invitations to our other webinars. We do two every month.

1171
00:57:44.066 --> 00:57:47.386
We do one that's like this, that's just kind of a bunch of friends having a chat

1172
00:57:47.446 --> 00:57:51.426
about project-y stuff because that's what we do, and then we

1173
00:57:51.886 --> 00:57:54.066
have one that's a little bit more about

1174
00:57:54.966 --> 00:57:57.206
our product.

1175
00:57:58.406 --> 00:57:58.906
Last

1176
00:57:59.766 --> 00:58:03.506
month, the month before was Laura

1177
00:58:03.566 --> 00:58:07.446
Barnard, and we had a really nice conversation, and the demo piece was very, very

1178
00:58:07.466 --> 00:58:07.806
short.

1179
00:58:08.666 --> 00:58:12.536
Next week, 25th? No, week after I think, we're going to have

1180
00:58:12.566 --> 00:58:16.446
Jo Purrs. And Jo's actually going to be in the UK, so we'll be sitting next to each

1181
00:58:16.486 --> 00:58:16.726
other.

1182
00:58:16.906 --> 00:58:17.856
Wow, nice.

1183
00:58:17.866 --> 00:58:20.446
Which is going to be such a hoot. It's going to be so much fun.

1184
00:58:20.726 --> 00:58:24.066
Both are in "Project Land Goes to the Movies." Both have chapters, yeah.

1185
00:58:24.246 --> 00:58:24.586
There you go.

1186
00:58:24.606 --> 00:58:25.366
Yeah. Amazing.

1187
00:58:25.626 --> 00:58:28.806
There you go. So it's going to be a lot of fun, so keep your eyes open for that.

1188
00:58:28.866 --> 00:58:32.786
So thank you, everybody. Great job, Heba and Dawn.

1189
00:58:33.846 --> 00:58:33.926
Thank you.

1190
00:58:33.986 --> 00:58:35.306
See you all next time.